Cold War and Pop Culture: USA vs USSR - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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'Cold war' communist versus capitalist ideological struggle (1946 - 1990) and everything else in the post World War II era (1946 onwards).
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#201509
Hi to all,

I was thinking about sharing some thoughts you the fellows here about the Cold War and perhaps why the Soviet Union did not succeed in gaining the sympathy of the public opinion and never was seen as a model of prosperity, freedom, modernity and etc....


Here it is:
Cold War : Silent invasion of American Pop Culture defeated the USSR


The U.S. was always exporting Pop Culture such as movies, TV series, soap operas, music, fast-food chains, consume goods and all sort of ‘Pop’ stuffs. In fact, they were always building some sort of parameter to other nations.

And the Soviet Union? The Soviets spent their time and money almost ONLY in heavy industry. And that was a mistake!


The USSR should pay more attention to psychological warfare. It could have done better if they just paid attention to cultural infiltration such as food, ballets, movies and literature.

With the movies the U.S. told its own distorted version of History, created its own fictitious heroes and so on..

They sold an image of how the U.S. was prosperous and friendly and how Soviet Union was an Evil Empire of Darkness, like all other Communist nations.

Almost the whole world community believe in these lies and propaganda.

Not generalizing but: Fast-food chains and goods for consumers carried the American trademark to all countries in this World, subtlely supplanting American culture and wasteful living style to other countries.

You did not need to spend a single bullet or missile, they culturally invaded many countries.

And those who refused to accept their values, were simply massacred and this will never be shown on movie screens.

Like what we see in the US invasion of Iraq!
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By Adrien
#201512
True, and it is clear now that, and especially because of them, the "evilness" of the USSR is written everywhere, like embedded forever in the tables of law, in the medias, in the mind of people who don't even know anything about it, ...

Yesterday, on the most major news radio of the country, they were reviewing a book about the USSR: the book was not anti-Soviet, the author -a russian, apparently nostalgic- was trying to explain how the slow, heavy bureaucracy didn't manage to follow the evolving population.

Anyway, the first words of the reviewer were: "Today's book tries to describe life under the terrible communist dictatorship". Note that this has nothing to do with the subject of the book... That irritated me.
#201607
In general, the American and Western media range and coverage were pretty stronger than the Soviet.

During the Cold War, we saw a great number of books bashing the Communist system and its leaders, we were learning at school how Communist were a system predestined to a total failure and so on..

Did we have the access to the "other side", to read some books showing the success of some Communist governments, as the Chinese that after the revolution they cleaned their house, with the banning of drugs, pornography, prostitution and all sort social diseases?

No! Because such kind of informations were severly forbidden in Western nations (the so-called democracies). Because they wanted us to believe that Communism was bad..

We did learn this simple terrible and fake equation:

Communism=Brutality + Atheist + Backwards Murderous Dictatorship

Capitalism/Imperialism= Democracy + Religious + Modern + Liberal

Pure crap!! Isn't it??
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By Adrien
#201608
It is Comrade, it is!
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By Der Freiheitsucher
#201694
It is pure crap indeed, but you dont mention the biggest mistake the USA ever did: Declaring themselves the victors of the Cold War.

After the USA declared themselves the victors, they thought that no country would ever be able to give them a run for their money, and they were wrong.

The way I see it, it was a draw, the Cold War was a draw and it ended with the ABM treaty. Nevertheless, Americans think they won it. Won what exactly?

In Gorbachev's words, the USA was the first and last superpower in history, and their biggest mistake, was thinking they won the Cold War.
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By uglygoat
#201707
Did we have the access to the "other side", to read some books showing the success of some Communist governments, as the Chinese that after the revolution they cleaned their house, with the banning of drugs, pornography, prostitution and all sort social diseases?


friend, what books or information are you talking about specifically that you feel would have helped improve western understanding of the rival system? i am curious to know. i never encountered a lesson taught in 'school' critical of the us gov untill college. it is something that is not adequetley addressed in lower education, but doesn't necisarily 'smack' of the conspiracy your attributing to it. but it does depend on how you view the two competing 'super powers' of the time in which you speak, but studying your equation posted above clears things a little. ;)
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By Boondock Saint
#201730
As for the 'evil' empire ...

I think Stalin did more to tarnish the name of the USSR then the US could have ever hoped to do ... one does not need to make up lies when the truth is already harsh and repugnant.

Furthermore, one is free and was free to study whatever text might have come from teh Soviet Union or any other nation.

I dont think the USSR fell due to the lack of culture export but they fell due to an excessive military export ...

The USSR just couldnt handle the heat ... so it folded.

As for the US culture export ... people like freedom, its a weakness in humans ... they like silly music, pretty girls, fast cars, and funny shows.

And those who refused to accept their values, were simply massacred and this will never be shown on movie screens.


Massacred? You got an example? That sounds like alot of people were wiped out by the US recently ...
By Vassili Zaitsev
#201756
As I said before, in American schools, children are taught:

Capitalism= :angel:

Communism= :evil:

Its as simple as that comrades. *shakes head*
By ahab
#201758
Vassili Zaitsev wrote:As I said before, in American schools, children are taught:

Capitalism= :angel:

Communism= :evil:

Its as simple as that comrades. *shakes head*
Ya know... I went back and looked at one of my old textbooks... never saw this sort of thing touted as fact. There is folklore, but people should be able to distinguish between lore and fact.

Or maybe Iowa really does have the supposed good school system is bragged about all the time.
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By uglygoat
#201887
The way I see it, it was a draw, the Cold War was a draw and it ended with the ABM treaty.


actually this is some glimmer of hope out of the whole confangled era of tension and suspicion. these two economic and scientific powerhouses could've very easily worked together to achieve unheard of advances for humanity, but we chose to hide behind "iron curtians" and (i can't think of a term for the 'west' help me out please.. :lol: ) bottom line is we missed a fine opportunity then, and we are headed down the same road today with 'pre-emptive' strikes and bickering inthe security counsel. :hmm:
By Steve
#201905
I don't think the US "won" the Cold War, rather the USSR defeated themselves.

I think the USSR fell apart because it was never really supposed to happen in the first place. It was a freak of nature so to speak. A nation like that, with so many differing religions, nationalities and cultures would never have come together without the use of force like Lenin did. Remember that most of the Soviet Union did not voluntarily join, rather the Red Army forced them too. They incorporated so many different people in, people that had been at war with each other at some point, and tried to hold it together with more force. They held the lid on a pressure cooker that was about to explode. Gorbachev pulled the lid off, and it blew up. They failed to realize that there are things that are above communism to many people - nations, cultures and religions. Once you allow people some freedom, they immediately realize that they had culture, religion, etc and that they like that more than communism. Then all the old hostilities rise to the surface, nationalists start popping up and before you know it the USSR falls apart.

Furthermore, one is free and was free to study whatever text might have come from teh Soviet Union or any other nation.


The problem was that they didn't have to. Therefore, 99% would not (I would be part of the remaining 1% :D). How many kids do you know of that would want to spend their time reading Soviet literature? Most of the people I know don't even want to know about Canadian government and history, let alone Soviet communist which most assume is still evil.

As for the pop culture aspect, I think that is why the USSR failed internationally. They exported revolution, and for the most part, oppression and dictatorship. The US exported movies and hamburgers. Which do you prefer?
By Tovarish Spetsnaz
#201918
Remember that most of the Soviet Union did not voluntarily join, rather the Red Army forced them too.


When did this happen??? I don't recall the Red Army invading any part and forcing people to join the Soviet Union...

On the contrary...they joined voluntarely...as separate revolutions occured in each republic....

Also...the fact that they joined had tto do with the fact that they had been togather for centuries...

Once you allow people some freedom, they immediately realize that they had culture, religion, etc and that they like that more than communism.


You think so??? Is that why most of the people in nearly every republic want to join back togather?? The breakup of the USSR happened NOT as a result of a popular decission...it was forced upon them. There was a referendum in 1991...and more than 70% of the Soviet people voted to keep the USSR intact...so this was not the will of the people...
By Vassili Zaitsev
#201942
How come the United States never recognized the incorperation of the Baltic Republics? And didn't the USSR invade Finland? Steve, you say the USSR was a freak of nature, well you obviously havent been to America.
By Steve
#201969
When did this happen??? I don't recall the Red Army invading any part and forcing people to join the Soviet Union...

On the contrary...they joined voluntarely...as separate revolutions occured in each republic....

Also...the fact that they joined had tto do with the fact that they had been togather for centuries...


Revolutions maybe, but not big enough to voluntarily join. The Red Army had to force them in.

http://www.onwar.com/aced/data/romeo/russia1918.htm

As you can see in there, not only did the Red Army force Ukraine, an independent nation, into the USSR, they also smashed independent governments in Caucasia and in Central Asia.

You think so??? Is that why most of the people in nearly every republic want to join back togather?? The breakup of the USSR happened NOT as a result of a popular decission...it was forced upon them. There was a referendum in 1991...and more than 70% of the Soviet people voted to keep the USSR intact...so this was not the will of the people..


What they want today isn't relevant to this, we're talking about 12 years ago. Obviously attitudes have changed. The referendum also happened before Yanayev and his gang tried to topple Gorbachev and drive the USSR back to dictatorship. Did you consider that that power grab might have convinced people that the system was unworkable and that as long as the USSR lived there would be people like Yanayev and co. that would try to grab as much power for themselves as possible?

How come the United States never recognized the incorperation of the Baltic Republics?


Probably because they, like so many others, were forced into the USSR. I don't recall the people there asking to become part of the Soviet Union, rather it was decided in the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, now wasn't it?

And didn't the USSR invade Finland


They sure did.

Steve, you say the USSR was a freak of nature, well you obviously havent been to America.


I don't recall praising the US over the USSR, I think both of them were equally bad.
By Vassili Zaitsev
#202070
Steve you do know that the U$ and other European nations tried to smash the RSFSR when it was founded don't you? Also, where's Spetsnaz? He lives to respond to comments like yours. :lol: No offense.
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By Yuji
#202072
Since the US controlled (and still controls) the mass media, they played on the softness of people-their innate love for soft things and luxuries, their love for glamour, and their love for religion, and played them in their efforts to turn opinion against the Soviet Union.

Just ask my country-others of my kind are still suckers for America[/b]
By Steve
#202089
Steve you do know that the U$ and other European nations tried to smash the RSFSR when it was founded don't you? Also, where's Spetsnaz? He lives to respond to comments like yours. No offense.


Yes they did, but why is that a justification for the Red Army to invade Ukraine, Armenia, Azerbaijan and the Central Asian area and overthrow local governments and forcefully incorporate them into the USSR?

As for TS, I saw him online twice after I posted last and he never responded. Maybe he ran out of arguments. :D
By Proctor
#202290
The Soviet Union had their fair share of propaganda, and if they had won, we would all be talking about 'the evils of the American capitalists' right now.

Steve, are you advocating forced learning? It is my experience that if you are forced to do something, you soon despise it. Making people study simply reduces the effort that they put into it. So in contrast to what you are saying, I think education should become more voluntary. If people then choose to be stupid, who do they have to blame?


And as you may have noticed, I have skirted around the main issue :muha1:
By Steve
#202322
Steve, are you advocating forced learning? It is my experience that if you are forced to do something, you soon despise it. Making people study simply reduces the effort that they put into it. So in contrast to what you are saying, I think education should become more voluntary. If people then choose to be stupid, who do they have to blame?


It does appear that you have skirted the issue. :) People are generally ignorant about the USSR and with this ignorance they tend to misunderstand communism. Some idiots I know have called me a communist. They only know it is evil, so they use it in a derogatory way (no I am not evil, I just support the death penalty :p ) I have also been told that I should go to church. :D

People need to be a little more informed about the USSR, so forced learning on this would be something I support. I don't mean everyone would have to take a full Soviet history course in grade 10, but something more than the 1.5 classes we spent on Russia this year (1 on the revolution, .5 on the 1930s).
By Wilhelm
#203060
Communism is not taught at my school. Most of the teachers are anti-communists, so they tend to say things against communis. The one teacher I kn0ow is a communist doesn't talk about it because poeple usethe word 'communist' in a derogatory way, and never come to learn about it.
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