[B. H.]

I think I know who really prodded Mikhail Gorbachev into destroying the USSR: it was none other than his wife Raisa.

Both of Gorbachev's grandfathers were arrested by Stalin and lived. One of them went on to become mayor of his village. Apparently, Gorbachev did not let this really bother him as far as wanting to destroy the USSR was concerned. I think he really felt reforms had to me made, but a lot of this was spurned on by his wife. Why? Keep reading..

Raisa Gorbachev had a grandfather that WAS executed by Stalin. Is it possible that Raisa always nursed a hatred for Stalin and Communism because of this? Over the years as her husband moved up the ladder of Soviet power, is it not possible that the experience with her grandfather made her more succeptible to western propaganda by the West, and pressure her husband to reform the "evil" Soviet system?

I think it did. She was one of the people who pressured her husband most about the need to make the USSR more like Western Europe, and her emotional distress over her grandfather fueled the flame. Her husband, feeling for his wife, was prone to listen to her concerns and give into her naggings. Other political leaders echoed what she said and gave her ideas and desires more creedance. So, the USSR goes to shit and implodes!

Also, Raisa's grandfather was a KULAK, and is it possible that she and her families always harbored secret KULAK sympathies and were just closet socialists?

[A_Technocrat]

If one man (or perhaps the woman behind the man in this case) was able to destroy Communism, wouldn't that imply it's a weak system in the first place?

It took a group of communists to install the USSR, but it took one communist to uninstall it.

[Adrien]

Gorbatchev alone didn't destroy the USSR, decades of revisionism and mislaying did. If the Soviet system had not suffered from that, what happened in the late 80's wouldn't have happened and Gorbatchev would have propably be ousted (or he wouldn't have adopted such a political line).

[jaakko]

I don't think B.H. started this thread to find out 'how did Gorbachev destroy USSR' (which is not the case). But it's still interesting to consider as to what were the motives of such political figures. They didn't pop out from nowhere or without the help of different anti-socialist elements really existing in the society, but they weren't robots either but human beings who had their own motives in addition to those of their backers. And of course, the 1980's was just a culmination to the process that was launched in the 1950's and 60's.

[A_Technocrat]

Ok I'll start another thread on this, I just made that one post here because it was closely related.

Edit: The ball is already rolling here: http://www.politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=14230#14230

[B. H.]

I don't think B.H. started this thread to find out 'how did Gorbachev destroy USSR' (which is not the case). But it's still interesting to consider as to what were the motives of such political figures. They didn't pop out from nowhere or without the help of different anti-socialist elements really existing in the society, but they weren't robots either but human beings who had their own motives in addition to those of their backers. And of course, the 1980's was just a culmination to the process that was launched in the 1950's and 60's.

Thanks Jaako,

You worded my intentions better than I did. Gorbachev certainly didn't want to "destroy" the USSR, though I think it is safe to assume from what he has written that he would not have minded a Western European type economy with a wee bit more publicly owned industry.

What I AM saying is that Raisa may have always felt resentment to "THE SYSTEM" out of Kulak sympathies and love for her grandfather (she had an attachment to him emotionally, and emotions sometimes blind people to the fact they committed crimes) as well as a deep resentment for Stalin because he "murdered" grandpa.

Gorbachev no doubt was exposed to her mentality throughout his married life and years and years of hearing such from his wife may have made him more susseptible to other "reformers" saying the same things. She may have known who shared her views and pressured Gorbachev to listen to and promote such men.

[Vassili Zaitsev]

Well now we'll never know if this is true or not since Raisa's dead now right? Or at least thats what I heard.

[jaakko]

You worded my intentions better than I did. Gorbachev certainly didn't want to "destroy" the USSR, though I think it is safe to assume from what he has written that he would not have minded a Western European type economy with a wee bit more publicly owned industry.

As Gorba himself said, "my ambition was to liquidate communism" which doesn't necessarily equal destroying USSR as a country. Yes, revisionists aimed (more or less consciously) at restoring capitalism, but not in the way it happened in USSR and Eastern Europe, but like in China. China is one prime example how revisionism should work: restore capitalism, retain 'socialist' scenery (red flags, rhetorics etc.). Revisionists in USSR failed, because after completing their task they became useless and lost their political positions.

Here's a quote from Gorbachev:

"My ambition was to liquidate communism, the dictatorship over all the people. Supporting me and urging me on in this mission was my wife, who was of this opinion long before I was. I knew that I could only do this if I was the leading functionary. In this my wife urged me to climb to the top post. While I actually became acquainted with the West, my mind was made up forever. I decided that I must destroy the whole apparatus of the CPSU and the USSR. Also, I must do this in all of the other socialist countries. My ideal is the path of social democracy. Only this system shall benefit all the people. This quest I decided I must fulfil."

http://www.revolutionarydemocracy.org/r ... orbach.htm

Vassili,
Raisa died a couple of years ago. I can't remember the year right now.

[sergei]

I have a far more quantitatative theory....

He was a Dick.

[B. H.]

You worded my intentions better than I did. Gorbachev certainly didn't want to "destroy" the USSR, though I think it is safe to assume from what he has written that he would not have minded a Western European type economy with a wee bit more publicly owned industry.

As Gorba himself said, "my ambition was to liquidate communism" which doesn't necessarily equal destroying USSR as a country. Yes, revisionists aimed (more or less consciously) at restoring capitalism, but not in the way it happened in USSR and Eastern Europe, but like in China. China is one prime example how revisionism should work: restore capitalism, retain 'socialist' scenery (red flags, rhetorics etc.). Revisionists in USSR failed, because after completing their task they became useless and lost their political positions.

Here's a quote from Gorbachev:

"My ambition was to liquidate communism, the dictatorship over all the people. Supporting me and urging me on in this mission was my wife, who was of this opinion long before I was. I knew that I could only do this if I was the leading functionary. In this my wife urged me to climb to the top post. While I actually became acquainted with the West, my mind was made up forever. I decided that I must destroy the whole apparatus of the CPSU and the USSR. Also, I must do this in all of the other socialist countries. My ideal is the path of social democracy. Only this system shall benefit all the people. This quest I decided I must fulfil."

http://www.revolutionarydemocracy.org/r ... orbach.htm

Vassili,
Raisa died a couple of years ago. I can't remember the year right now.

Jaako,


I guess I can consider myself a first rate historian! I came to a conclusion based on the evidence I researched, and it turns out I was right all along! That qoute from Gorbachev proves I was correct.


It is such a shame that there are not more scholarly pro-Soviet Union websites in English these days. There are PLENTY of sites about NAZI Germany and Adolf Hitler,and the way he is focused on so much (and in a positive way many times), you would think he won World War Two or was president of the United States for fuck's sake!

[CasX]

The only thing I've concluded from a brief look at what Mikhail Gorbachev has done is how cool he is. I'll put my money on him "destroying" the USSR because it was an oppressive, corrupt, state capitalist run nation far from anything Marx and Engels would have envisaged. Good on him. Now someone needs to do the same thing about the capitalist reforms that are dragging former eastern bloc countries back into third world status.