Prediction of JFK assassination? - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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'Cold war' communist versus capitalist ideological struggle (1946 - 1990) and everything else in the post World War II era (1946 onwards).
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#15081392
JFK was assassinated in November, 1963. The following quote by Trappist monk Thomas Merton was made in 1962:
"I think he (JFK) cannot fully measure up to the magnitude of his task and lacks creative imagination and the deeper kind of sensivity that is needed. Too much the Time and Life mentality, than which I can imagine nothing further, in reality, from, say, Lincoln. What is needed is really not shrewdness or craft, but what politicians don’t have: depth, humanity and a certain totality of self forgetfulness and compassion, not just for individuals but for man as a whole: a deeper kind of dedication. Maybe Kennedy will break through into that someday by miracle...…... But such people are before long marked out for assassination."
#15081561
Few people really had the capacity to take on the problem of Communism and totalitarianism. JFK was not one of them. It took enormous sacrifice to contain Communism and totalitarianism. We were terribly, terribly lucky that the Nazis and the Soviet Union ended up fighting each other. Yes we were lucky that the Soviet Union carried the lions share of the burden of defeating the German army, but we were also luck that the Nazi war machine inflicted such terrible, terrible damage on the Soviet Union. We were lucky that the Soviet Union didn't collapse in the summer of 1941, that would have been catastrophic, but it would have been equally catastrophic if the Nazis had collapsed in the summer of 41.

Communism didn't just contain itself. It required herculean efforts to contain Communism until the end of the eighties, to contain, savagely wound it and it exhaust it, long enough to allow the Soviet Union to collapse from within. The pathetic fantasy of the anti fascist war was perhaps near unavoidable, but it left us with a terrible legacy. The demonisation of Nazism, German nationalism and by implication of course all WIG (White Infidel Gentile) nationalisms was again maybe near unavoidable, but left us with a terrible toxic legacy.

JFK failed in his primary duty as leader of the free world to contain and where possible turn back the totalitarian communist advance, and he invented the moon landing programme to cover it up. He admitted himself he had no interest in space. What a pathetic, cretinous waste of money the Moon landings were. Peoples interest in the Moon landings lasted for less than a year, once they had arrived.
#15081586
Rich wrote:
Few people really had the capacity to take on the problem of Communism and totalitarianism. JFK was not one of them. It took enormous sacrifice to contain Communism and totalitarianism. We were terribly, terribly lucky that the Nazis and the Soviet Union ended up fighting each other. Yes we were lucky that the Soviet Union carried the lions share of the burden of defeating the German army, but we were also luck that the Nazi war machine inflicted such terrible, terrible damage on the Soviet Union. We were lucky that the Soviet Union didn't collapse in the summer of 1941, that would have been catastrophic, but it would have been equally catastrophic if the Nazis had collapsed in the summer of 41.

Communism didn't just contain itself. It required herculean efforts to contain Communism until the end of the eighties, to contain, savagely wound it and it exhaust it, long enough to allow the Soviet Union to collapse from within. The pathetic fantasy of the anti fascist war was perhaps near unavoidable, but it left us with a terrible legacy. The demonisation of Nazism, German nationalism and by implication of course all WIG (White Infidel Gentile) nationalisms was again maybe near unavoidable, but left us with a terrible toxic legacy.

JFK failed in his primary duty as leader of the free world to contain and where possible turn back the totalitarian communist advance, and he invented the moon landing programme to cover it up. He admitted himself he had no interest in space. What a pathetic, cretinous waste of money the Moon landings were. Peoples interest in the Moon landings lasted for less than a year, once they had arrived.



Utter bullshit.

Khrushchev made the mistake of underestimating JFK. It cost him his job, after the Cuban Missile Crisis.

We came quite close enough to WW3 as it was, thank you very much.

Don't get me wrong, JFK was not a good president. But we haven't had a good president since Ike. There's reasons for that that extend beyond the man in the office, but that's the result.
#15081631
late wrote:Khrushchev made the mistake of underestimating JFK. It cost him his job, after the Cuban Missile Crisis.

We came quite close enough to WW3 as it was, thank you very much.

The Soviet Union won the Cuban missile Crisis. The Americans agreed to withdraw their weapons from Turkey and promised that they wouldn't invade Cuba. the Soviets got everything they had wanted out of the deployment. But the true nature of the deal was hidden so as that JFK wouldn't lose face. The risk of war came from that demented psychopath Fidel Castro who said he was willing to sacrifice the Cuban people to nuclear Armageddon in order to further the Communist cause.

A big part of the reason that the Soviets withdrew was that they didn't trust Castro with these weapons on his soil even if they remained under Soviet operational control, rather than them fearing that empty blow hard JFK. The Soviets had similar trouble with Kim Il-sung another demented psychopathic warmonger, who essentially tricked the Soviets into backing their unprovoked invasion of South Korea. it should be noted that Khrushchev's mentor Joseph Stalin might have been a genocidal extremist in his internal polices, but his foreign policy was always marked by caution. In foreign policy Stalin was cautious to a fault.
#15081641
Rich wrote:
The Soviet Union won the Cuban missile Crisis. The Americans agreed to withdraw their weapons from Turkey and promised that they wouldn't invade Cuba. the Soviets got everything they had wanted out of the deployment.



The Politburo didn't fire him because he won. Khrushchev was fired because it was a humiliating loss.

Giving up the missiles in Turkey didn't give them much, and we had no intention of invading Cuba after the Bay of Pigs.

At that time, Russia's Bear bombers couldn't get to America, and they had very few missiles that could get here. We could have obliterated them. Of course, Europe would have been toast. But the point is we had a massive strategic superiority. When Russia had to pull the missiles out of Cuba they lost the ability to do serious damage.

Giving up the missiles in Turkey was giving up nothing.
#15086191
late wrote:At that time, Russia's Bear bombers couldn't get to America, and they had very few missiles that could get here.


Russia had 162 nuclear tipped missiles in Cuba.

and

three weeks before JFK was murdered by his generals and the CIA a carbon copy of the Dallas plot was foiled in Chicago where JFK was due to attend the Army/Navy football game. A deranged ex marine was groomed and set up by the CIA to work in a building abutting JFK's motorcade route where 4 JFK hating John Birchers with telescopic sighted rifles were to be positioned to create a killing field (as in Dallas) for JFK to enter.

Still believe Oswald was the "lone gunman" who shot "magic bullets"? :eek:
#15086195
jimjam wrote:
Russia had 162 nuclear tipped missiles in Cuba.



Of course.

The reason they were there was because while we could rain death on every inhabited part of the country, and they had at most a handful of missiles. They felt they had a good justification, MAD doesn't work if it ain't mutuwal.

That changed a lot as the 60s wore on. But the threat imbalance was extreme during the JFK years.
#15086211
jimjam wrote:three weeks before JFK was murdered by his generals

Still believe Oswald was the "lone gunman" who shot "magic bullets"? :eek:

No I think the killer bullet was fired accidentally by a secret Service agent in the car behind. The idea that his Generals arranged the thing was absurd. If they had wanted to kill him, they obviously could have found a more sane way of killing him, so it didn't appear to be an assassination. But better still if they really had the unity to assassinate the Presidency, they would have been in a position to undermine his presidency and get a Republican elected in 1964.

Really the idea that supposedly right wing fanatics would go to such extreme lengths to put a catastrophic Liberal loser like Johnson into the White House is utterly absurd. plus they're supposed to have framed up a lone nut job, why wouldn't they frame up the Cubans or the Soviets?
#15086302
Rich wrote:No I think the killer bullet was fired accidentally by a secret Service agent in the car behind. The idea that his Generals arranged the thing was absurd. If they had wanted to kill him, they obviously could have found a more sane way of killing him, so it didn't appear to be an assassination. But better still if they really had the unity to assassinate the Presidency, they would have been in a position to undermine his presidency and get a Republican elected in 1964.

Really the idea that supposedly right wing fanatics would go to such extreme lengths to put a catastrophic Liberal loser like Johnson into the White House is utterly absurd. plus they're supposed to have framed up a lone nut job, why wouldn't they frame up the Cubans or the Soviets?


Far fucking out. I think even the Warren Fairy Tale notes 3 shots. How do you explain the identical plot being thwarted 3 weeks prior in Chicago? The Alan Dulles/CIA killing machine engineered the details right up to Alan's specialty of "plausible deniability" (The Warren Farce). If you have a genuine interest in history I suggest you read "JFK and the unspeakable" by James Douglass. It took 10 years to research and write and has 936 references. I suspect that Mr. Douglas comes closer to the truth than you do. It's around 400 pages though ….. you may not be able to handle it.
#15086754
On 11/21/63, the day prior to JFK's murder, the owner of an air flight business, Wayne January, was working with the pilot of a DC-3 at Red Bird Airfield near Dallas. The pilot was working for the CIA and due to fly the DC-3 out on the afternoon of JFK's murder. While eating lunch the pilot remarked, "Wayne, they are going to kill your president. They are not only going to kill the president, they are going to kill Robert Kennedy. They want Robert Kennedy real bad." The pilot's prediction came all too true to Wayne January the next day. January was scared and kept his secret until 1992 when it was released under a false name. After Wayne's death in 2002 his wife gave permission to reveal his identity.

The incident was described in Matthew Smith's book Conspiracy - The Plot To Stop The Kennedys.
#15200227
Upon hearing of JFK's assassination Khrushchev had at first wept and then withdrew into a shell. He then wandered around his office for several days in a daze.
#15200270
late wrote:...we haven't had a good president since Ike. There's reasons for that that extend beyond the man in the office, but that's the result.

Is it because the CIA took over and has been running the show (with the Fed and other oligarchs) since then?

It would make sense. The USA could have taken a very different turn under JFK, and could have been IN FAVOR of the sovereignty of indiginous nations. Instead, the CIA wanted to use media to brainwash (they were behind MK ULtra) and continue to plunder.

Which brings us to here and now... 60 years of plunder later.

Nonetheless, I don't think the jimjam's OP quote was a prediction of the assassination, so much as a recap of what had been happening in the USA up until that time. Common sense would have told Thomas Merton that the USA (under the CIA) assassinates its progressive social leaders (just like Colombia and many Central American tyrants do - USA allies).
#15200275
QatzelOk wrote:
Is it because the CIA took over and has been running the show (with the Fed and other oligarchs) since then?

It would make sense. The USA could have taken a very different turn under JFK, and could have been IN FAVOR of the sovereignty of indiginous nations. Instead, the CIA wanted to use media to brainwash (they were behind MK ULtra) and continue to plunder.

Which brings us to here and now... 60 years of plunder later.

Nonetheless, I don't think the jimjam's OP quote was a prediction of the assassination, so much as a recap of what had been happening in the USA up until that time. Common sense would have told Thomas Merton that the USA (under the CIA) assassinates its progressive social leaders (just like Colombia and many Central American tyrants do - USA allies).



So when did Bernie Sanders get a bullet to the head?

There are lots of power struggles in DC, it's complicated, and while there has been political repression ( which I had to deal with); you've gone a bridge too far.
#15200276
jimjam wrote:
On 11/21/63, the day prior to JFK's murder, the owner of an air flight business, Wayne January, was working with the pilot of a DC-3 at Red Bird Airfield near Dallas. The pilot was working for the CIA and due to fly the DC-3 out on the afternoon of JFK's murder. While eating lunch the pilot remarked, "Wayne, they are going to kill your president. They are not only going to kill the president, they are going to kill Robert Kennedy. They want Robert Kennedy real bad." The pilot's prediction came all too true to Wayne January the next day. January was scared and kept his secret until 1992 when it was released under a false name. After Wayne's death in 2002 his wife gave permission to reveal his identity.

The incident was described in Matthew Smith's book Conspiracy - The Plot To Stop The Kennedys.



The JFK assassination breeds stories the way a petri dish breeds germs.
#15200279
late wrote:So when did Bernie Sanders get a bullet to the head?

Bernie Sanders is of no danger to capitalism, or to the CIA's grip on American power.

Sanders and the SandernistasTM are a perfect example of the kind of "socialism porno" that Americans have had to make due with ever since the CIA took over their country's administration.


About JFK, Edward Curtin wrote:To understand why and by whom he was assassinated on November 22, 1963...
#15200325
I'm sorry but the ignorance of liberals is a never ending source of amusement. So many liberals can quote or at the very least misquote Eisenhower's "Military Industrial complex" speech. :lol: oh dear but how many of those liberals ever stop for a moment to question who the target of Eisenhower's speech was. The answer of course is that it was Kennedy. Kennedy who campaigned relentlessly on the "Missile Gap". Kennedy who relentlessly accused the Eisenhower - Nixon administration of being soft on communism. Kennedy campaigned as a war monger. Kennedy betrayed the voters on perhaps the central promise of his election campaign.
#15200380
Rich wrote:I'm sorry but the ignorance of liberals is a never ending source of amusement. So many liberals can quote or at the very least misquote Eisenhower's "Military Industrial complex" speech. :lol: oh dear but how many of those liberals ever stop for a moment to question who the target of Eisenhower's speech was. The answer of course is that it was Kennedy.

Edward Curtin disagrees strongly with your unsourced but proudly illiberal opinion.

Edward Curtin wrote:From the day he was sworn in as President on January 20, 1961, John F. Kennedy was relentlessly pressured by the Pentagon, the Central Intelligence Agency, and by many of his own advisers to wage war – clandestine, conventional, and nuclear.

To understand why and by whom he was assassinated on November 22, 1963, one needs to apprehend this pressure and the reasons why President Kennedy consistently resisted it, as well as the consequences of that resistance.

It is a key to understanding the current state of our world today and why the United States has been waging endless foreign wars and creating a national security surveillance state at home since JFK’s death.
#15200382
QatzelOk wrote:
Edward Curtin disagrees strongly with your unsourced but proudly illiberal opinion.



I don't think I could have done it without the training I received, in history, science.

It's tempting to speculate, and it's human nature to want things to be part of something.

But, odds are, it was just a nut that set things in motion. That's not emotionally satisfying, but one of the rules in academia is that it's not about you and your satisfaction...
#15200386
late wrote:...it was just a nut that set things in motion...

It's fairly obvious that the CIA had JFK (and his brother Robert) terminated.

Curtin wrote:This treachery set the stage for events to come. Sensing but not knowing the full extent of the set-up, Kennedy fired CIA Director Allen Dulles (who, as in a bad joke, was later named to the Warren Commission investigating JFK’s assassination) and his assistant, General Charles Cabell (whose brother, Earle Cabell, to make a bad joke absurd, was the mayor of Dallas on the day Kennedy was killed.)


This means that the unelected CIA (and its sponsors) was-is more powerful than the USA government. And this has been true at least since the early 60s when Dulles was head of the CIA - the agency that gave the world MK Ultra and Project Mockingbird (mind control technology - perfect for slave-creating). We also owe crack cocaine to this organization.

That the Warren commission had the most probably murderer as its head... demonstrates how low the democratic standards and level of social sophistication are in the rich, dumb West.
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