Merkulov reported the final decision to attack and Stalin wrote back "Tell the 'source' in the Staff of the German Air Force to fuck his mother!"
And of course you have a SOURCE for that???
People swam across the Bug to alert the Soviet forces.
Perhaps you suffer from ADD and already forgot about what I wrote above. ONE person swam accorss to warn the Soviets. He did so on June 21. And guess what...Stalin did believe him. Read the quotations I have by ZHukov on that very incident.
Why do you INSIST on ignoring facts but always inventing your own???
Much of the best intelligence alerting them of the plan to attack was ignored.
Again wrong. 95% of the intelligence reports coming in were wrong to begin with. Most of them were being fed in by England and other western powers. England warned the Soviets...EVERY MONTH...that the German attack would happen "Next month!!" It was all lies. And it is also all lies that Stalin ignored intelligence reports. And who told you he did??? Khruschiev and his idiot cronies?? Khruschiev was counting potatos at the time...what did he know?? Read some Zhukov about how Stalin responded to REAL intelligence reports from Soviet agents. They knew the attack would come...they did not know when or how it would come...and NO ONE KNEW. Soviet intelligence was flooded with flase reports from al over Erueope warning literally every week that there would be an attack on that week. It was all false. Stalin had to ignore most of it...He only trusted trsuted sources.
But again....you all love to say how Stalin didn't foresee it 60 years later...becasue its very easy 60 years later to do so. Why don't I hear anything of the sort about why the French and British and Belgians were caught with their pants down when the Germans attacked??? Ahh...only attacks on Stalin are alowed. British and French pathetic failures are result of "brillinat German tacticks"...while Soviet failures are result of "Stupid Stalin".
Ridiculous...
There was authentic intelligence coming in...and Stalin adn the rest of the Soviet command were in fact paying close attantion to them all. But how ridiculous can you get to say it was all a failure becasue they didn't get the "date" on the spot. As if American intelligence got the date of Perl Harbor on the spot?? Why no one is calling Rosevelt inept for not knowing Pearl Harbor would happe???
Again...people who make these criticisms are ignorant little intellectuals who have no understanding of reality.
People who keep saying Stalin didn't listen to intelligence reports and didn't prepare are either outright lying are are totally ignorant. In March 1941 Stalin ordered 800,000 reservists called up and moved to the western border. In April 28 border divisions were added to the western borders for defense. In 1940 construction of a fortified line along the border of the newly liberated lands in Belorussia and Ukraine (which had been occupied by Poland) begun. 2,500 concrete bunkers were beuing build along with many other fortifications, aifields and such...all in all 140,000 men were working on fortifying the border every day. Soviet arms industry was put on high gear...and new types of weaponry started enetering service (all the war-winning weapons started builing in this period)
Zhukov describes excercises they carried out in the Ukraine...using German tacticks to train the Red Army to resist them Zhukov said just like in the real thing....the Germans won in the excercises too.
And now you come here and tell us Stalin didn't do any of that. He just said..."go fuck your mother!" Well I'm convinced...if a potato counting Khruschiev said it...than it must be true.
Zhdanov - one of the military chiefs - was sent off on a month long holiday on the 19th.
And??? Stalin didn't know the date of the attack...NO ONE KNEW THE DATE OF THE ATTACK. Where was Rosevelt when they bombed Pearl Harbor?? Probably fucking one of his mistresses. What an inept ruler...ehh???
Ridiculous accusations...
Immediately before the attack there were many people involved in working through the possible situation - Molotov,Mikoyan, Timoshenko, Zhukov and others. Zhukov wasn't present at all the meetings.
Molotv wrote memoirs too describing the situation. Zhukov was present in the first meetins in the first day of the war. NO ONE...except idiot Khruschiev...said Stalin didn't prepare enough or that he ignored intelligence.
Just over an hour after the invasion Beria, Timoshenko, Zhukov and Mekhlis met at the Kremlin, along with Mekhlis, Molotov and Stalin. Stalin's first directive "do not cross the border" hinted that he still wanted to believe it was just a provocation.
Stalin's first directive was issued at 7:15...it said to go on the counter attack. There was no other directive...
The other directive can be found only in Khruschiev's imagination.
The Soviets had already recieved germany's declaration of war long before 7:15...so they knew this was not a provocation. And yet again...you INSIST on fairy tales...even when the real facts are in your face. I alerady quoted Zhukov on what happened in those early hours.
As for the 'fucked it up' thing -- well, if was said on the way to Kuntsevo. Your beloved Zhukov wasn't there. It is reported by Molotov (We've fucked it up), Mikoyan (Lenin left us a great heritage and we his successors have shitted it up), Beria (Everything is lost. I give up. Lenin left us a proletarian state and now we've been caught with our pants down and let the whole thing go to shit) and Chadaev (Lenin founded our state and we've fucked it up). None of these - especially Molotov - is a particular Stalin hater.
Please...a SOURCE would be helpful (holds breath to get source from Khruschiev) And second...where is Stalin in that scene?? I don't see him...maybe he's back stage. Funny how it isn't real...just RUMORS.
This was on June 28. Stalin stayed away from the Kremlin until the 30th, when he had to be coaxed back by Molotov and co... I'll give you more information on this period, if you want.
None of this testimony is from Khrushchev.
Actually ALL of it is by Khruschiev. he is the one who said it first...and then other western "hisorians" picked it up. Molotv DENIES any of this happened.
Stalin NEVER left the Kremlin...not during the entire first week of the campaign. Molotv can attest to that...as can his own office log books which can be found in the Soviet Archives.
The stories that Stalin went into seculsion and Molotov had to get him out are FALSE...LIES by Khruschiev. Molotov himself DENIED IT!!
This is Molotov refuting Khruschiev's lies...
Molotov:
"It is wrong to say he (Stalin - Ed.) was confused; he was worried, but he did not show it. To say that he was not worried would be ridiculous. But writers portray him in a way that he wasn't, like a repentant sinner! This is, of course, absurd. During all this time, as always, he worked, he did not lose control of himself and he certainly did not lose the power of speech".
Its funny how you attribute things to people who themselves deny it.
During the first week of the campaign at least...Stalin was exclusivly in the Kremlin holding meetings and giving directives. His log books have been found and studied in the archives. Here is what they show:
On June 22 Stalin's OFFICIAL work day begun at 05:45 and ended at 16:45...this is official but of course the Soviet leaders already were meeting at 04:30.
On June 23 he had meetins and his work day lasted 22 hours and 35 minutes!!
On June 24 it was the shortets...only 5 hours as official work day where he was in his office.
June 25th he is recorded as having 24 hours of meetings.
June 26 and 27 he is recorded as having 10 hour work days in both.
June 28 was 5 hours...becasue of fatigue of such a long work schedule
During the week of June-22-28 Stalin had 88 hours 40 minutes of meetings...involving 158 meetings with 45 senior government and military officials.
Now THIS...is what is FACT. Khruschiev was nowhere near at the time..and was making up BS about Stalin being in seculsion. He was not...he was in the Kremlin the whole time holding meetings...and as I said Molotv can attest to that becasue he was there.
This data was taken from Steven J. Main: 'Stalin in June 1941: A Comment on Cynthia Roberts', in: 'Europe-Asia Studies', Volume 48, No.5 (July 1996) who studied Stalin's log books in the archives.
"Thus, judging by his appointments diary, as well as the statements of his contemporaries, the important measures adopted by both the party and the state, etc., the view that Stalin locked himself away for any length of time during this critical opening period of the Soviet-German War would appear to be no longer tenable".
(Steven J. Main: ibid.; p. 838).
But of course...any CASUAL observer would realise Stalin was not in seculsion but was in the Kremlin.
It was on June 26 that it was Stalin who ordered the construction of secondary defense lines 300km behind the main ones. How could have given out such a on order on June 26...if he was "in seclusion"...as Khruschiev says (and again I must point out to you once more that it is Khruschiev and ONLY Khruschiev that makes such a claim).
On June 29 Stalin made out the directives which were announced to the nation on July 3 in his famous radio address. He issued them on June 29 however. And yet...Khruschiev tells us Stalin was hiding drunk in his datcha on June 29
And then funnily enough you add this comment...
I'll give you more information on this period, if you want.
I find that very amusing. If yo had any information on that period...you'd know better. I took you for someone who was actually interested in historical accuracy. It seems to me now you are just an armchair intellectual...and not a very good one at that.
I could make a separate post about the Red Army if you want me too. Perhaps you want to answer initially if you think Tukhachevsky, Gamarnik and their families deserved to be shot and incarcerated - and if this helped the Soviet war effort.
And what does the fate of their families have to do with the war effort for you to bring it up?? I suppose you believe these men were "innocent". Yes...thats the general concensus amongst all armchair intellectuals. Its not reality however...for the very simple fact that there have been many many many people who have tied them to a military conspirancy to overthrow the Soviet government. The west in fact provided the best evidence of that...when in 1946 a Soviet officer who had in fact been a member of that military conspiracy (Tokaev) defected to the British and wrote Comrade X...an account of his actions during this military conspirancy...and how he ties this conspirancy going all the way up the highest military commanders...and how the NKVD completely descimated the conspirators and eliminated almost all of them (Tokaev himself was arrested on such charges but was released in 1940). So now I know you will come and tell me the conspirancy was not real...Stalin was paranoid. And yet here we have a man who himself took part in it...and wrote a book describing how far it went.
But then again...its not as if half the Belgian officers and half the French officers weren't Hitler's fifth columnists and handed Hitler their countries to him. Its not as if it didn't happen. But no...Stalin was paranoid.
Can anyone say Vlasov (arrested in 1937...released 1940), Colonel Mileti Zykov (arrested 1936, released 1940), General Vasili Feodorovich Malyshkin former chief of staff of the Far East Army (arrested 1937, released 1940), Major-General Georgi Nicolaievich Zhilenkov (arrested 1937, rleased 1940). All of these "Brillinat commanders and tacticians"...were among those arrested in the Tukhachevsky affair for planning a pro-german coup in USSR. These men...actaully JOINED the Nazis during WW2.
Well I guess Stalin was paranoid again too...
Of course...no comment on Marshal Pétain, General Weygand, Admiral Darlan...and many other German fifth columnists in the French Army.
If the French had had as much insight as Stalin did...perhaps they would not have been defeated in 2 weeks.
One of my main earlier points - which you haven't addressed - is the fact that much of the Soviet Air Force was wiped out *on the ground* because they hadn't even been mobilised. If they had been alerted *they could have flown away*.... But no, no...
Flown away to la-la land??? IF...they had been alerted. And why was the US AF on Pearl Harbor not alerted??? Must be becasue rosevelt was inept. Why were the Israeli units in the Sinai not alerted but whiped out?? Must be because of Israeli ineptitude.
Again...I will say it for the 5th time...such accusations are good only for armchair intellectuals who have no touch with reality. They are childish accusations. In war there is no such thing as "alerted". The enemy does not alert you of anything. Thats whats called...the element of surprise. There was no way for the Soviets to alert their forces...if they didn't know when and where the Germans would attack. NO ONE ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH...unless German...knew when it would happen. 60 years later you can of course make any comment you would want.
As I made comparison before...just look at how the Israelis were caught with their pants down in 1973. It took them 4 hours to undertand what had happened. By that time their Bar Lev Line was destroyed...and their tank units in the Sinai were bruning before their crews even had time to put on their pants.
This is military reality. Let childish intellectuals like you make any comments they want to...
I've done at least 6 minutes of research, and noted the responses of more people than simply the apologist Zhukov (and not Khrushchev, either)
And what a wonderful job you did...ehh?? Should have spend that extra 7th minute...
... if you want I can talk about the Politburo decrees *during* the war which often gave a death sentence to those taken by the Germans.
Knowing your 6 minute research...I wouldn't want to read it...lol
- By Pants-of-dog
- By litwin
