M. N. Tukhachevsky - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Inter-war period (1919-1938), Russian civil war (1917–1921) and other non World War topics (1914-1945).
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By Comrade Ogilvy
#212631
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Does anyone here have any available [non-superficial] information on the controversial case against the onetime Red Army Marshal, Mikhail N. Tukhachevsky?
Assistance on the matter will be most appreciative.
By CasX
#212731
- Completely ignorant. Who's he? What did he do? etc
Thanks.
By Tovarish Spetsnaz
#212735
Well he was accused of being anti-communist and anti-Soviet a LONG time before his trial.

A French soldier who was POW with in a German camp with Tukhachevsky, wrote a book on Tukhachevsky and his experience with him. According to this French soldier, Tukhachevsky revealed his hatered for communists and the Bolsheviks, and he also expressed a deep hatered for Jews and Chrstians. He was a first-line fascist.

Nevertheless, Tukhachevsky made no comments on this book and Stalin didn't seem to mind.

Allegations in Tukhachevsky's involvment in a military plot came during the Zinoviev-Kamanev trials and the Bukharin trials. They said that Tukhachevsky was the leader of a military conspirancy to assasinate the members of the Soviet government.

Nevertheless, again Stalin ignored these until more proof came about.

Other allegations came from Benes, President of Czechoslovakia. He told the Soviets he had intercepted communications between high ranking German officers and high ranking Soviet officers. He also described an incident when a drunken Tukhachevsky spoke too much.

What evidence and proof was used at Tukhachevsky's trial we don't really know because it was a secret military tribunal...as opposed to the public trials of Bukharin and co.

There is a lot of other evidence which came after Tukhachevsky was dead...about his guilt. One, Vlasov, the infamous Soviet traitor, admitted to Tukhachevsky's guilt to Himler.

Tokarev, a member of this conspirancy who defected to England in 1945 wrote a book about his involvment in the military conspirancy, and admitted that this conspirancy went right up to the very top of the military...though he said he didn't know personally if Tukhachevsky was involved.

There is also some evidence in the German archives that high-ranking German officers were communicating with high ranking Soviet officers behind Hitler's back.

The theory is that these German officers made up an anti-Hitler pact in Germany which wanted to overthrow Hitler. They made contacts with the conspiring Soviet officers who wanted to overthrow Soviet power. Their aim was to overthrow the governments in both countries and form an alliance between Germany and Russia...with which to take on the west.


There is also a story that some SA officer in Germany made up a fake dossier on Tukhachevsky and send it to the Soviets in order to trick Stalin into carrying out a purge of the military. That...in my opinion...is a fake story because besides the man who claims to have carried it out...there is no evidence any such dossier was ever send to the Soviets.

Also the conspirancy was very real...no need to trick anyone into it (Tokarev wrote a book on his own role...so of course it was real!)


Tukhachevsky was taken out just in time...before WW2 started. Had he and others remained in power...the Soviet Army may have been bribed like the Iraqi army was in 2003.

If we didn't learn from France in 1940...than we learned it even better in 2003...how an enemy infiltrates the highest ranks...and buys off your military from right under you if you are not alert and vigilent.

People say Tukhachevsky was a brilliant leader and so forth. That may be true...but if he was a traitor of the highest order...that doesn't matter at all.
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By Comrade Ogilvy
#212814
Tov. Spetsnaz,

What have you to say on the following?

As a staff member of the Calvalry Inspectorate, I had the good fortune to become more closely acquainted with Mikhail Tukhachevsky. As I mentioned earlier, I first met him during the suppression of the Antonov kulak revolt in 1921. He was a handsome man of athletic proportions and a most impressive appearance. We had noted then that he was no coward. At the head of but a small force, he often visited areas infested with bandits.

As First Deputy to the People's Commissar for Defence, Tukhachevsky did intensive organisational, creative, and theoratical work. What I admired in Tukhachevsky was his versatile command of various aspects of military science. A clever, knowledgable professional, he was splendidly conversant with tactical and strategic problems.

In all his fundamental deductions and arguments concerning strategy and tactics, Tukhachevsky emphasized that the rapid scientific and technical development that was going on in our country and abroad would exercise a decisive influence on the organisationa of the armed forces and the conduct of any future war.

Already in the thirties, Tukhachevsky warned that our No. 1 enemy was Germany, which was intensively preparing for a big war, and that this would doubtless be against the USSR. In writing published later, he repeatedly stressed that Germany was establishing a powerful invasion army consisting of strong air and airborne forces and highly mobile troops, mostly mechanized infantry and armour. He noted Germany's rapidly mounting industrial potential and its fascilities for mass producing combat aircraft and tanks.

In the summer of 1931, out in the field camps of the 1st Cavalry Corps, I drafted the first and second parts of Service Regulations for the Red Army Cavalry, assisted by Gusev, commanding officer of a cavalry regiment, and other comrades from the 1st Cavalry Devision. In autum, having been discussed by the Inspectorate staff, they were put before Tukhachevsky for his consideration.

With I.D. Kosogov, Deputy Chief Inspector, I more then once defended one or another point in the service regulations. But I must admit that we were often disarmed by Tukhachevsky's logical and well-grounded arguments. We were also grateful to him for his brilliant suggestions which greatly improved our draft.

After Tukhachevsky's amendments the service regulations were adopted, providing the cavalry with fine combat training manual.

The last time I saw Tukhachevsky was in 1931 at a Party meeting where he delivered a report on the international situation. He spoke conclusively of our country's growing might, the broad vistas ahead of our socialist economy, science, enineering, and culture. Dwelling on the role of our Communist Party in building the new state and army, he had worm words for Lenin, whom he had met many time and with whom he had often worked.

At this meeting, Tukhachevsky aired views he had set out in a monograph he was then writing on novel problem of warfare. We were less conversant with these problems and avidly drank in his every word. Tukhachevsky was an ace of military thinking, a star of the first magnitude among the great soldiers of the Red Army.

Addressing the Second Session of the Central Executive Committee of the USSR in 1936, Tukhachevsky again called attention to the grave and immanent danger presented by Nazi Germany. He backed up his stirring patriotic speech with a serious factual analysis of the Germ military potential and its aggressiveness.


G. Zhukov; Reminiscences and Reflections, Vol. I, page 137-139



In 1936 Heydrich, chief of Intelligence in Germany, received a visit from a former officer in the Czarist army, General Skoblin. This general without an army was consoling himself for his inactivity by playing double agent on a grand scale. For many years he had been working for Soviet Intelligence on the side.

The news he brought Heydrich was momentous: he had it on good authority that Marshal Tukhachevsky was plotting an armed insurrection against Stalin. Heydrich passed this on to the Nazi high command, who discussed what course to follow. There were only two options: allow the head of the Soviet Army to go ahead with the plan, or warn Stalin and, as a bonus, give him proof of the marshal's collusion with the Wehrmacht. The second solution was chosen.


Leopold Trepper; The Great Game , 1977



The most sophisticated apparatus for conveying top-secret orders was at the service of Nazi propaganda and terror. Heydrich had made a study of the Russian OGPU, the Soviet secret security service. He then engineered the Red Army purges carried out by Stalin. The Russian dictator believed his own armed forces were infiltrated by German agents as a consequence of a secret treaty by which the two countries helped each other rearm. Secrecy bred suspicion, which bred more secrecy, until the Soviet Union was so paranoid it became vulnerable to every hint of conspiracy.

Late in 1936, Heydrich had thirty-two documents forged to play on Stalin's sick suspicions and make him decapitate his own armed forces. The Nazi forgeries were incredibly successful. More than half the Russian officer corps, some 35,000 experienced men, were executed or banished.

The Soviet chief of Staff, Marshal Tukhachevsky, was depicted as having been in regular correspondence with German military commanders. All the letters were Nazi forgeries. But Stalin took them as proof that even Tukhachevsky was spying for Germany. It was a most devastating and clever end to the Russo-German military agreement, and it left the Soviet Union in absolutely no condition to fight a major war with Hitler.


William Stephenson; report on Reinhard Heydrich
By Tovarish Spetsnaz
#212822
I have no comments on Zhukov's words. No one is doubting Tukhachevsky's work during the Revolution or his military abilities.

The other two sections are based on the accounts of Naujocks, an SD agent, which he gave in the 1970s...that somehow he had tricked Stalin by sending him documents on Tukhachevsky. As far as anyone knows...no such documents were ever send to Stalin. There is only Naujocks word for it.

Not to mention this is rather contradictory. First, Tukhachevsky is said to be plotting against Stalin...and the Germans knowing this. Than why would the Germans go ahead and tell Stalin about it?? If he was an inocent man...than it is concievable that the Germans would fabricate some evidence to make Stalin remove one of his most capable leaders...and thus benefit the Germans. On the other hand, if Tukhachevsky really was going to overthrow Soviet power, than this would only benefit the Germans by essentailly destroying the Soviet state...So why would the Germans ruin that by telling Stalin about it??

But the problem is, there is no evidence of any of this ever happening other that Naujocks word. The evidence of Tukhachevsky's involvment came from the trials of the Zionvievites and Bukharinists.

Some historians go as far as saying there was no military plot at all!! And yet we have several defectors who admit to being part of such a plot, who have written books on their activites on such a plot, and admit to the effectivness of the NKVD in eliminating these plots almost completely.

As I said, unfortunately no one knows what was said at Tukhachevsky's trial. It was a secret military tribunal. But there is no evidence of any SD documents going to the Soviets...except for the words of one man...which are questionable at best.

This has become the new popular view...SD fooled Stalin into thinking there was a real military plot, and thus destroyed the Red Army. And what is this based on?? The accounts of one man. No proof...no logic.
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By Comrade Ogilvy
#212878
I have no comments on Zhukov's words. No one is doubting Tukhachevsky's work during the Revolution or his military abilities.


Yes, but you have omitted the fact that Zhukov also describes Tukhachevsky as an uncompromising anti-fascist.

The other two sections are based on the accounts of Naujocks, an SD agent, which he gave in the 1970s...that somehow he had tricked Stalin by sending him documents on Tukhachevsky. As far as anyone knows...no such documents were ever send to Stalin. There is only Naujocks word for it.


That, I'm afraid, is rather incorrect. L.Trepper's statement is based on his discoveries through his contacts in the Gestapo, while Stephenson's assertion came in his 1937 report on R. Heydrich. Both men were intelligence agents.

Not to mention this is rather contradictory. First, Tukhachevsky is said to be plotting against Stalin...and the Germans knowing this. Than why would the Germans go ahead and tell Stalin about it?? If he was an inocent man...than it is concievable that the Germans would fabricate some evidence to make Stalin remove one of his most capable leaders...and thus benefit the Germans. On the other hand, if Tukhachevsky really was going to overthrow Soviet power, than this would only benefit the Germans by essentailly destroying the Soviet state...So why would the Germans ruin that by telling Stalin about it??


Nazis of both great and mediocre political statures always saw the 1937 executions of Red Army Generals as one of the most costly Soviet blunders. Only after the frustration of the Barbarossa invasion were these views "reformed".

The evidence of Tukhachevsky's involvment came from the trials of the Zionvievites and Bukharinists.


Zinoviev, if I recall correctly, was initially tried under the accusation of involvance in Kirov assassination, and a year later for conducting an anti-Stalin terrorist plot. There were no references to a Nazi conspiracy at the time. Bukharin's trial, however, came in 1938 – i.e. almost a year after the Tukhachevsky affair.
By Tovarish Spetsnaz
#212931
Yes, but you have omitted the fact that Zhukov also describes Tukhachevsky as an uncompromising anti-fascist.


I didn't say he was pro-fascist. His contacts were not with Hitler, but rather with German officers who were doing this behind Hitler's back, and in fact wanted to overthrow Hitler themselves.

My comments that he was a "fascist" refered to his racist hatered against Jews, his hatered for communists and his Bonapartism.

That, I'm afraid, is rather incorrect. L.Trepper's statement is based on his discoveries through his contacts in the Gestapo, while Stephenson's assertion came in his 1937 report on R. Heydrich. Both men were intelligence agents.


I don't even know who this Trepper is. The allegations I have read, first came in Naujock's claims he made in the 1970s...that he had personally done all of this.

I don't know what "contacts" he had in the Gestapo or of this 1937 (?) report.

Nazis of both great and mediocre political statures always saw the 1937 executions of Red Army Generals as one of the most costly Soviet blunders.


Which is why they approved of it. But it would have been even of more benefit for them if these officers had remained in place. Suerly they realized this...becasue they did this in France, Belgium and elsewhere. They didn't go and inform the Belgians that their military was full of their spies.

Zinoviev, if I recall correctly, was initially tried under the accusation of involvance in Kirov assassination, and a year later for conducting an anti-Stalin terrorist plot. There were no references to a Nazi conspiracy at the time. Bukharin's trial, however, came in 1938 – i.e. almost a year after the Tukhachevsky affair.


There always was a referance to foriegn involvment in these conspirancies. And I said Bukharin-ISTS...not Bukharin himself. The first allegations against Tukhachevsky came in Zinoviev's trial. Bukharin's trial also confirmed it as they testified that Tukhachevsky was leading the military arm of the conspirancy...but was almost independant from the Bukharin-Zinoviev conspirancy.
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By Comrade Ogilvy
#212936
I didn't say he was pro-fascist. His contacts were not with Hitler, but rather with German officers who were doing this behind Hitler's back, and in fact wanted to overthrow Hitler themselves.


I was not so much discussing your claims, as I was Tukhachevsky’s official accusation. The accusation was, as both you and I know, that he plotted a Nazi-backed plot against the then Soviet government.

My comments that he was a "fascist" refered to his racist hatered against Jews, his hatered for communists and his Bonapartism.


I believe one needs first to contextualize Tukhachevsky’s 1917 statements before passing a judgment on them. He was, if I recall correctly, in a German POW camp at the time. If so, do you really think it would be wise for one to expound any progressive ideals under such circumstances?

I don't even know who this Trepper is.


Leopold Trepper, the son of Jewish parents, was born in Novy-Tang, Poland, on 23rd February, 1904. When he was a boy his family moved to Vienna.
After the October Revolution Trepper joined the Bolsheviks. He worked in Galician mines and in 1925 he organised an illegal strike at Dombrova. He was arrested and spent eight months in prison.
In 1926 Trepper migrated to Palestine. He remained a member of the Communist Party and worked against the British until being expelled in 1928.
Trepper now moved to France where he worked for Rabcors, an illegal political organization, until it was broken up by French intelligence. Trepper escaped to Moscow where he was recruited by the NKVD. For the next six years he worked as a spy in Europe. In 1939 Trepper established the Red Orchestra network and organised underground operations in Germany, France, Holland and Switzerland.
Red Orchestra worked closely with the French Communist Party and succeeded in tapping the phones of Abwher in France. Trepper was also able to provide detailed reports on the plans for a German invasion of the Soviet Union.
In the spring of 1942 the first Red Orchestra agents were arrested in Belgium. Some agents broke under torture and the Germans were able to liquidate the network in Belgium, Holland and Germany. The Red Orchestra's headquarters were raided in November, 1942. Trepper managed to escape and remained in hiding until Paris was liberated.
Trepper returned to Moscow in January, 1945. Joseph Stalin ordered his arrest and was kept in prison until 1955. He moved to Poland where he became head of the Jewish Cultural Society. After many years of trying, Trepper was eventually granted permission to emigrate to Israel in 1973 where he published his autobiography, The Great Game. Leopold Trepper died in Israel in 1982.

[Source: http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/RUStrepper.htm]


Which is why they approved of it. But it would have been even of more benefit for them if these officers had remained in place. Suerly they realized this...becasue they did this in France, Belgium and elsewhere. They didn't go and inform the Belgians that their military was full of their spies.


`The Führer explained one more time the Tukhachevsky case and stated that we erred completely at the time when we thought that Stalin had ruined the Red Army. The opposite is true: Stalin got rid of all the opposition circles within the army and thereby succeeded in making sure that there would no longer be any defeatist currents within that army ....
`With respect to us, Stalin also has the advantage of not having any social opposition, since Bolshevism has eliminated it through the purges of the last twenty-five years .... Bolshevism has eliminated this danger in time and can henceforth focus all of its strength on its enemy.'


- J. Göbbels

There always was a referance to foriegn involvment in these conspirancies.


Can you please present some concrete examples of such references?

The first allegations against Tukhachevsky came in Zinoviev's trial.


This is the first time I read about such a thing. Could you please name your sources? Thank you.
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By Comrade Ogilvy
#212970
NOTE:

It appears as though I have partly erred in my claims concerning the trial of the TROTSKYITE-ZINOVIEVITE TERRORIST CENTRE. There was a reference to the fascist infiltration of the Centre. However, there were no references, what so ever, to Tukhachevsky being involved in such affairs. Tukhachevsky's name was not even mentioned in the trial.


P.S.

For complete reference to the court procedures of the case against the 'TROTSKYITE-ZINOVIEVITE TERRORIST CENTRE' refer to http://art-bin.com/art/omoscowtoc.html
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By Leonid Brezhnev
#212973
I dont know about Tukhachevsky or if he was a fascist but all this 'TROTSKYITE-ZINOVIEVITE TERRORIST CENTRE' was nothing more than a good excuse for Stalin to eliminate the closest dangers for his position and start the Great Purge that was one of the biggest mistakes that he ever done.I doubt for its existence and even if it existed it would be creation of reactionary cells that have remained in USSR and had nothing to do with Trotsky or any other famous Bolshevik or his supporters.


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By Comrade Ogilvy
#212978
Brezhnev,

Please realize that such comments have no place in the current discussion on Tukhachevsky, which, prior to your intervention, I must say was going rather well.

Thank you for your understanding.
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By Leonid Brezhnev
#212982
You have my deepest apologies,comrade |PROMETHEUS| but I cant resist hearing such things,I hope you understand. :)





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By Krasniy Yastreb
#212985
Gah, there you go again. I hate to break this to you Prometheus old boy, but the creator of a thread does not recieve automatic ownership of it... :roll:

Anyway I must admit my own ignorance on Tukhachevsky, the only guy I know anything about was Marshal Semyon Budenniy. Now there was a character. I mean you gotta love that moustache. OK so he didn't do so well defending Kiev in '41 but I'm veering from the subject.

On with Tukhachavsky...
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By Comrade Ogilvy
#213001
Brezhnev,

I thank you for your understanding. None here was really disputing the legitimacy of the 'TROTSKYITE-ZINOVIEVITE TERRORIST CENTRE' trial, but only its connection to the Tukhachevsky case.
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By Comrade Ogilvy
#213002
Gah, there you go again. I hate to break this to you Prometheus old boy, but the creator of a thread does not recieve automatic ownership of it...


Krasniy,

There really is no other way other way of saying this, but I pity you more then a starving African child. :hmm:
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By Comrade Ogilvy
#213214
To those taking interest in the topic on Tukhachevsky,

Not many hours ago I received a collection of Soviet era articles dealing with Tukhachevsky, his contribution to the Soviet military science, and the 1937 case against him.

If anyone here is interested in reading these articles then please say so. I would be more then happy to send them to you.

Yours,
Prometheus
User avatar
By Leonid Brezhnev
#213218
Please I would like to sent them to me comrade,if you want. :)



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By Comrade Ogilvy
#213220
That's fine, but there is a problem. The files, when compressed, eat up approximately 3Mb worth of computer memory, and this is just far too large for your hotmail account. I can, however, suggest two solutions in regard to the problem:

a) Make an e-mail account with a service provider that offers more free e-mail storage space, eg. YAHOO; or
b) Empty your present account, and I will send each file separately, day-by-day.

Tell me of your decision.
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By Leonid Brezhnev
#213225
Sent them to my marxists.org email,

leonidas@marxists.org





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