Thunderhawk wrote:If you want muscle power on a farm you used a horse or an ox. Farm animals also had the bonus of not rising up and killing you in your sleep or sabotaging their output.
"Farm animals" is a great point, because they were domesticated--selectively bred not to rise up and kill you. That takes generations of selective breeding. I think it works both ways too. We develop innate traits for animal husbandry or hunting, and pass that down. I'm I1, which is Nordic, and they were traditional hunter people. While I cannot provide a completely rational explanation for you, I have an absolute uncanny knack for dogs, and they for me. A few weeks ago I was up in Oregon. Both of my sisters are from California, but bought houses in a subdivision within a few blocks of each other as they intend to retire there in the future. So I went up for a visit, staying at my older sister's. All of the dogs love me, but my younger sister's German shephard loves me so much, when she was let out to pee in the morning, she ran across the subdivision to my older sister's house, tried to open the front door, and kept working it until my older sister opened the door. The dog ran up the stairs looking for me, found me, jumped on the bed and started licking me. That dog is genetically quite similar to a wolf. Yet, she's domesticated and doesn't try to kill me. In fact, she sought me out knowing only for a brief moment the night before that I was there and at my older sister's house. She had otherwise never seen me there before--only in California.
Domesticated animals have a better chance at reproduction; hence, the disincentive to rebel. My sisters pour affection on the dogs, but I "play" with them and make them fetch. I encourage them to chase birds, squirrels, lizards, rabbits, etc. That's what they're bred to do. That's when they are the happiest--and of course, I share meat with them too.
Thunderhawk wrote:I see a use for endurance, productivity and good health, all of which can be proxied by strength for the ignorant, but ignorant people rarely have large amounts of money.
Agreed. However, I don't think direct mistreatment of slaves, such as whipping or chaining people up, is what developed these traits. Rather, I think the "seasoning" process effectively weeded out those with little or no endurance... both blacks and whites.
The Immortal Goon wrote:And a lot more lived. There weren't many blacks under indentured servitude.
But, really, I don't understand this narrative. Something bad happened to Africans. Some people, especially right-wingers, feel the need to go screeching on about how they suffered so much and prostate themselves as victims for us all to see how precious their victimhood is. I really don't care, and since it's not particularly relevant, I'm not sure why else you'd even be bothering to bring it up.
Blacks were mostly taken as slaves, and whites as indentured servants. It's not a narrative. It's a fact. Indentured servants working fields in the North tended to fair a bit better than in the South, where the climate was much more hostile to people acclimated to Northern Europe. So out in the tobacco fields, white indentured servants died at a per-capita higher rate far higher than black slaves. Seasoning
basically meant that a person who had survived a tropical disease was more likely to live longer, and thus would command a higher price. The economics of slavery (ownership of person and their posterity) versus indentured servitude (bound servant for a duration, no interest in posterity), and the differences between blacks (acclimated to tropical conditions, some with sickle cell which helps survive malaria) and whites (acclimated to temperate and nordic climates, no natural acclimation or adaptation to tropical or subtropical climates) dictated the driving forces in the adoption and expansion of slavery in the South whereas indentured servitude continued primarily in the North and persisted with trade skills.
The OP asks whether human breeding is possible. Selective breeding is certainly possible, but the life spans of humans and the environments they are adapted to play a role. The fact that so many died while others survived suggests that slavery and indentured servitude weeded out some of the genetically weak in America--perhaps what made America such a hearty people for such a long time.
Interbreeding with whites--which you characterized as rape--may have something to do with blacks in America having marginally higher IQ than blacks in other parts of the world.
I have not offered sympathy or moral support here, nor any moral outrage or justification. I have, however, clarified that terms like "rape" did not involve the feminist re-interpretation of that term, and as such was not seen in that light in those times.
The Immortal Goon wrote:This, again, has nothing to do with anything. But I must have triggered you. I acknowledge what a victim you must feel like. If you need a safe space, let me know.
You can acknowledge whatever your imagination generates. That doesn't change the facts. There was a deliberate practice of "seasoning," in addition to the many people who died during the journey. The casualties in transit is more a function of natural selection, while the "seasoning" part can be thought of as unwitting selective breeding. The OP asks whether it is possible, and whether or not there was a deliberate practice. There is evidence to suggest that it did occur, but was not as widespread as suggested as the post-ban on the transatlantic slave trade produced a pronatalism sentiment among slave holders. Natalism was common in early America.
Rich wrote:No something wonderful happened to Black people, the arrival of White people. As a result, there are far, far more Black people alive living far higher standards of living. Just go Africa today and its filled with the technologies that White people invented. Black Africa was going nowhere before White people arrived to liberate it from its own backwardness and barbarism and from exploitation by Muslims.
That's true for the people as a whole, but not necessarily for individuals. When people like TiG are talking about "terrible things," they are talking about the effects on individuals. The British Empire was a huge boon for human civilization, but a lot of people hated it.
The Immortal Goon wrote:It would be like me saying, "being crippled sucks," and you responding, "No you were born and get to experience dessert, which tastes amazing!"
No. It's more like you saying, "I'm so hungry. I don't have enough to eat," and he responds, "Yes, but you survived child birth, early infant years, and grew. A hundred years ago, you'd probably have been stillborn."
Potemkin wrote:Vast swathes of Africa were almost entirely depopulated of the most productive segments of the population.
That's overstating things a bit.
Potemkin wrote:Can you imagine a white plantation owner in the Deep South doing such a thing?
How deep? Not every slave master was cruel to his slaves. A few even let slaves buy their freedom. Emancipation
Potemkin wrote:In fact, the trans-Atlantic slave trade gave slavery a bad name, and is the main reason it is now outlawed in almost all nations of the world.
Well, that's kinda sorta the case. Our trading relationship with China, for example, is about enslaving Chinese kids to make our tennis shoes. China goes along with it, as the real Great Leap Forward was MFN trading status with the US followed by accession to the WTO. The tolerance for illegal aliens is that it allows free American blacks to languish on welfare instead of taking unpleasant jobs serving white people. Hispanics fill those roles now, and many of them are illegally resident in the US.
anasawad wrote:The reason Africans are poor today is not because they're inferior but because other nations had centuries to develop while they were destroyed over and over again until finally starting the process of building their nations in the 20th century.
Africans were never even close to developing modern nation states themselves. The Scramble for Africa occurred because it became possible with quinine for whites to survive inland. Before that time, they wouldn't set foot inside the African continent as it surely meant death.
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