Debunking Common Conservative Talking Points - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14932977
I'm certainly not a liberal so don't think that. I just want to point out a couple of right-wing, conservative talking points that I've heard throughout my life that often get repeated rather loudly and forcefully, but when I stop and think about them, I realize they are in fact completely false.

Point #1: Soldiers in the military are protecting our rights

Conservatives say that our soldiers are putting their lives on the line to protect our constitutional rights. This is in fact completely false. Our constitutional rights were secured after we defeated Great Britain. Nothing in the past 100 years of this country has had anything whatsoever to do with protecting our constitutional rights. We lost the Vietnam War, and our constitutional rights are still here. Likewise, if we lose in the Middle East, our constitutional rights are not going away. Why? Because not every war is meaningful or worth fighting. I question the actions of our military instead of blindly backing them no matter what they do.

Point #2: USA is unique in that we have the freedom to criticize our own government

Whenever someone speaks out and criticizes the country, conservatives will get triggered and claim that if we didn't live in this country, we wouldn't be able to criticize it. USA is not unique in this regard. All over Europe people have this same right. Most countries around the world have it. It's nothing special. Conservatives seem to think that we're the only place on Earth that allows citizens to dissent and speak out against their government. Where they got this idea from I don't know.
#14953452
There are two things about talking points, whether conservative or liberal, that I find annoying.

The first is that, and this is most clearly noticeable in conservative talk radio, a talking point will be the topic du jour for all at once, often verbatim. I place a premium on original thought and expression.

The second is the persistence of talking points even when thoroughly debunked. To me, it indicates a Goebbelsian approach to communication.
#15159593
Agent Steel wrote:I'm certainly not a liberal so don't think that. I just want to point out a couple of right-wing, conservative talking points that I've heard throughout my life that often get repeated rather loudly and forcefully, but when I stop and think about them, I realize they are in fact completely false.


You walk like a liberal, you talk like a liberal, and you quack like a liberal so naturally you deny being a liberal. It's a common practice of liberals.

Point #1: Soldiers in the military are protecting our rights

Conservatives say that our soldiers are putting their lives on the line to protect our constitutional rights. This is in fact completely false. Our constitutional rights were secured after we defeated Great Britain. Nothing in the past 100 years of this country has had anything whatsoever to do with protecting our constitutional rights. We lost the Vietnam War, and our constitutional rights are still here. Likewise, if we lose in the Middle East, our constitutional rights are not going away. Why? Because not every war is meaningful or worth fighting. I question the actions of our military instead of blindly backing them no matter what they do.


NOBODY " blindly backs them no matter what they do." Armed service personnel are court martialed and imprisoned every year. You talk utter nonsense most particularly because they do the bidding of the Commander In Chief.

Point #2: USA is unique in that we have the freedom to criticize our own government

Whenever someone speaks out and criticizes the country, conservatives will get triggered and claim that if we didn't live in this country, we wouldn't be able to criticize it. USA is not unique in this regard. All over Europe people have this same right. Most countries around the world have it. It's nothing special. Conservatives seem to think that we're the only place on Earth that allows citizens to dissent and speak out against their government. Where they got this idea from I don't know.


More utter nonsense, the way liberals talk. Don't criticize Obama or you're "racist." But "Orange Man Bad." You got Biden, the demented incompetent who really represents Democrats, like you.
#15159594
Torus34 wrote:There are two things about talking points, whether conservative or liberal, that I find annoying.

The first is that, and this is most clearly noticeable in conservative talk radio, a talking point will be the topic du jour for all at once, often verbatim. I place a premium on original thought and expression.

The second is the persistence of talking points even when thoroughly debunked. To me, it indicates a Goebbelsian approach to communication.


Your kind of "original thought and expression":

America is systemically racist.
A vile, divisive lie and talking point of the Left. Take Coca Cola, please.

http://RacistLiberals.blogspot.com



Greedy rich. Another vile, divisive lie and talking point of the Left, the basis of socialism/Marxism, a sin, viz., covetousness.

http://DemocratInsanity.blogspot.com

Rationality. Another vile, divisive lie by the Left, pretending to embrace "science" and intellect, and feigning intellectual superiority, oblivious to the fact that intellect does not assure common sense and good judgment. Take college professors, please. "Public education is a socialist monopoly, a real one." - The Late Milton Friedman

http://TheEducationFraud.wordpress.com
#15159716
Well it looks like we have another fascist in our midst. Another kill your neighbor if he is liberal trying to cloak himself in the armor of the cross.

God does not like people who are not liberal in many ways. That was Jesus' most repeated message. Jesus was killed by the very kind of government they are looking for.

Smart people do not cite blogs as evidence either.

As a practicing Christian I find people like this deeply offensive. And they are really atheists claiming to be Christians anyway. Christians do not peddle hate. I would rather have a kind, generous, loving atheist helping the poor as a neighbor than these self-righteous, puffed up, hate mongers helping themselves. And according to the Bible I would see that kind atheist in heaven before I would see some assault weapon toting racist who spent his life worshiping money and power.

Christians, who do not behave like Christians, are not Christians. They are just people who stole someone else's name tag to sneak into the meeting.
#15159792
MrWonderful wrote:
Your kind of "original thought and expression":

America is systemically racist.
A vile, divisive lie and talking point of the Left. Take Coca Cola, please.

http://RacistLiberals.blogspot.com




According to The Washington Post, police officers shot and killed 1,001 people in the United States in 2019. About half of those killed were white, and one quarter were black, making the rate of deaths for black Americans (31 fatal shootings per million) more than twice as high as the rate for white Americans (13 fatal shootings per million).[99][100] The Washington Post also counts 13 unarmed black Americans shot dead by police in 2019.[101]



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Liv ... sive_force



---


MrWonderful wrote:
Greedy rich. Another vile, divisive lie and talking point of the Left, the basis of socialism/Marxism, a sin, viz., covetousness.

http://DemocratInsanity.blogspot.com




The wealth gap between white and black families nearly tripled from $85,000 in 1984 to $236,500 in 2009.[76]



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_in ... isparities



And:


Wealth Inequality in America




---


MrWonderful wrote:
Rationality. Another vile, divisive lie by the Left, pretending to embrace "science" and intellect, and feigning intellectual superiority, oblivious to the fact that intellect does not assure common sense and good judgment. Take college professors, please. "Public education is a socialist monopoly, a real one." - The Late Milton Friedman

http://TheEducationFraud.wordpress.com



Briefest rant *ever*.

Here's a low-road-to-high-road taxonomy, for meanings, institutional criticisms aside:


philosophical abstractions

Spoiler: show
Image
#15159990
Drlee wrote:Well it looks like we have another fascist in our midst. Another "kill your neighbor if he is liberal trying to cloak himself in the armor of the cross"


"Kill your neighbor" is your phrase, not mine. Leftists such as you constantly put YOUR words in other peoples' mouths and then condemn what YOU said.
I recommend that you read the book Liberal Fascism by Jonah Goldberg. Hitler was a Leftist. He was greatly admired by FDR and his Brain Trust.



God does not like people who are not liberal in many ways. That was Jesus' most repeated message. Jesus was killed by the very kind of government they are looking for.

Smart people do not cite blogs as evidence either.



Admin Edit: Rule 2 Violation It is reprehensible. When the authority asked the crowd who to release, the crowd asked for Barabbas and he was set free. You would of course approve. He was a thief.

I created and maintain eighty or ninety websites. Apparently all you do to "educate" people is Admin Edit: Rule 2 Violation. Christians and conservatives approve of freedom, as our Founding Fathers did.
Leftists, such as you, mock and ridicule liberty, the Constitution, and "Right Wing Religious Extremists," such as our Founding Fathers. You celebrate abortion, homosexuality, and transgender insanity, not to mention the welfare state. You think that bigger government, giving away everything, reflects your own generosity. It does exactly the opposite as proven in Who Really Cares by Arthur C. Brooks.

I do not intend to read anything you may ever post again. "Go from the presence of a foolish man." - The Bible
#15159992
MrWonderful wrote:

I do not intend to read anything you may ever post again.



Lucky him.

You get a lot of crap wrong. Hitler was not a Leftist, that reveals a profound ignorance of history. He was anything that got him power.
#15160133
I created and maintain eighty or ninety websites.


Oh goody.

Apparently all you do to "educate" people is tell lies. Christians and conservatives approve of freedom, as our Founding Fathers did.


I am a conservative-Christian - Republican. Guess again. :roll:


Leftists, such as you, mock and ridicule liberty, the Constitution, and "Right Wing Religious Extremists," such as our Founding Fathers.


See the above.

I would point out though that the founders are notable among their contemporaries in that they were not fundamentally Christian. There were the "Methodists" of their day. It is fair to say that most of them were not particularly motivated by religious zeal.

You celebrate abortion, homosexuality, and transgender insanity, not to mention the welfare state.


I abhor abortion.

Homosexuality is none of my concern. Nor should it be yours. Like the founders I believe in personal freedom. You do not. You have somehow contrived to believe that what two consenting adults do in the privacy of their own home is your business.

You have not read my many posts about the disease of Gender Identity Disorder/dysphoria.

The welfare state? Yes. I believe we should do away with excess welfare. We should start by sending every business in the US $1200.00 in stimulus just like the people. We should cut off farm subsidies. It is a fundamental conservative value that the center of the economy is the worker/consumer.

I hate big government. You are the one voting for Trump who is the biggest example of Big Government we have seen in a century.

I believe in a balanced budget which neither republican nor democrats can lay claim to.

It does exactly the opposite as proven in Who Really Cares by Arthur C. Brooks.


Brooks "proved" nothing. He is a former Democrat. Did you know that? Did you know he is a mystical Roman Catholic? Did you know he met with the Dali Lama?

I am astonished that you would mention Brooks, a person you obviously do not understand at all and with whom I frequently, though not always agree.

“There is a lot to be mad about in America today, but we must never forget that our cause is a joyous one. Conservatives should be optimists who believe in people. We champion hope and opportunity. Fighting for people, helping those who need us, and saving the country—this is, and should be, happy work.”
― Arthur C. Brooks,


You have far too much anger for that.

“When Ronald Reagan made his case to the American people, he didn’t spend a lot of time talking about what he was fighting against. He spent most of his speech talking about who he was fighting for. This is what conservatives too often forget.”
― Arthur C. Brooks,


I guess you missed that part. :roll:

The truth is much more egalitarian. Again, economic mobility is crucial, and stagnant wages are a huge problem for American families. But this doesn’t change the deep truth that work, not money, is the fundamental source of our dignity. Work is where we build character. Work is where we create value with our lives and lift up our own souls. Work, properly understood, is the sacred practice of offering up our talents for the service of others.” --Arthur Brooks.


Your "Hitler was a socialist" was comical though. I needed a good laugh.

I am glad you are not going to read my posts though. You could not handle a Christian conservative position.
#15160283
Drlee wrote:
I abhor abortion.

Homosexuality is none of my concern. Nor should it be yours. Like the founders I believe in personal freedom. You do not. You have somehow contrived to believe that what two consenting adults do in the privacy of their own home is your business.



Why should it be your concern what a woman does regarding her own body?


Drlee wrote:
You have not read my many posts about the disease of Gender Identity Disorder/dysphoria.



What politics are you referring to here?


Drlee wrote:
The welfare state? Yes. I believe we should do away with excess welfare. We should start by sending every business in the US $1200.00 in stimulus just like the people. We should cut off farm subsidies. It is a fundamental conservative value that the center of the economy is the worker/consumer.

I hate big government.



The capitalist economy could not even feasibly exist on its own, without government intervention -- as in 2008-2009, and 2020 -- to prop it back up with public funds, when it fails.


Drlee wrote:
You are the one voting for Trump who is the biggest example of Big Government we have seen in a century.

I believe in a balanced budget which neither republican nor democrats can lay claim to.



Post-Bretton-Woods all countries' economies and currencies *float* relative to each other, as measured by national debt-to-GDP ratios. It's not the size of any given country's debt that's the issue, it's the relative 'debt overhang' in relation to all other countries' 'debt overhang' that's the issue.
#15160353
Why should it be your concern what a woman does regarding her own body?


It is not. I said I abhor abortion. I deliberately did not say I would ban it. I would not ban anything but late term abortions. (Past viability.)

What politics are you referring to here?


I am not referring to any politics when I speak about GID. IT is a medical disorder that should be handled between a properly trained physician and his/her patient. I don't care at all about the political ramifications of this. When we are transitioning children before the age of 10 we are WAY out of line and WAY out in front of the science.

The capitalist economy could not even feasibly exist on its own, without government intervention -- as in 2008-2009, and 2020 -- to prop it back up with public funds, when it fails.


What makes you think that I do not agree with this?

Read my posts carefully. I do not follow Fox News or MSNBC talking points. I am an elderly republican. An old fashioned conservative. There are few of us around anymore.
#15160395
Drlee wrote:
It is not. I said I abhor abortion. I deliberately did not say I would ban it. I would not ban anything but late term abortions. (Past viability.)



Okay, noted.


Drlee wrote:
I am not referring to any politics when I speak about GID. IT is a medical disorder that should be handled between a properly trained physician and his/her patient. I don't care at all about the political ramifications of this. When we are transitioning children before the age of 10 we are WAY out of line and WAY out in front of the science.



"Gender identity disorder" and gender dysphoria are actually two different things -- you're referencing the *pathology*-oriented definition, from a conventional, medical-establishment-type compilation of *psychiatric*-based categorizations, while 'gender dysphoria' is described as:



the distress a person feels due to a mismatch between their gender identity and their sex assigned at birth.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_dysphoria



---


Drlee wrote:
The welfare state? Yes. I believe we should do away with excess welfare. We should start by sending every business in the US $1200.00 in stimulus just like the people. We should cut off farm subsidies. It is a fundamental conservative value that the center of the economy is the worker/consumer.

I hate big government.



ckaihatsu wrote:
The capitalist economy could not even feasibly exist on its own, without government intervention -- as in 2008-2009, and 2020 -- to prop it back up with public funds, when it fails.



Drlee wrote:
What makes you think that I do not agree with this?

Read my posts carefully. I do not follow Fox News or MSNBC talking points. I am an elderly republican. An old fashioned conservative. There are few of us around anymore.



Well, I didn't *accuse* you of disputing what I said -- but there is a discrepancy in your statement relative to your positioning. 'Big government' typically implies *government intervention*, as into the faltering capitalist economy, which you say you're against, but which you support regarding small-business. Just sayin'. Feel free to elaborate on your politics, if you like.
#15160415
"Gender identity disorder" and gender dysphoria are actually two different things -- you're referencing the *pathology*-oriented definition, from a conventional, medical-establishment-type compilation of *psychiatric*-based categorizations, while 'gender dysphoria' is described as:


Yes. And with much controversy changed in the DSM-IV.

My position is that we know too little about this to be doing wholesale transitioning. Even within the public health community epidemiologists are uncomfortable with the data at this point. Of course this is not commonly discussed because this is politically a trigger issue. The decision to change the category from disorder to disphoria was not a well considered medical one. It was a political statement more than everything.

Data says: 80% of patients presenting with Gender dysphoria will resolve to their birth sex without treatment. Knowing this, we are transitioning very young children virtually on their parents say-so. It is a disturbing situation.
#15160422
Drlee wrote:
Yes. And with much controversy changed in the DSM-IV.

My position is that we know too little about this to be doing wholesale transitioning.



'Wholesale' -- ?

As though a calendar date has been set, and people are lined up at clinics for this....


Drlee wrote:
Even within the public health community epidemiologists are uncomfortable with the data at this point. Of course this is not commonly discussed because this is politically a trigger issue. The decision to change the category from disorder to disphoria was not a well considered medical one. It was a political statement more than everything.



Okay, then what do you consider it to be, medically -- ?


Drlee wrote:
Data says: 80% of patients presenting with Gender dysphoria will resolve to their birth sex without treatment. Knowing this, we are transitioning very young children virtually on their parents say-so. It is a disturbing situation.



I caught a part of the Wikipedia entry that, consciously or not, outlines a good socio-political approach to the whole issue:



Critics also argue that therapeutic interventions that aim to alter a child's gender identity rely on the assumption that an adult transgender identity is undesirable, challenging this assumption along with the lack of clinical data to support outcomes and efficacy.[8] Other therapeutic interventions do not seek to change a child's gender identity, but are instead focused on creating a supportive and safe environment for the child to explore their gender identity and gender expression.[10]



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_dy ... n_children
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