[Tainari88]

This making immigration something about political punishment. It is about racism and political manipulation to win over the ones who are squishy.

The birther lies about Obama and the questioning of all political enemies with their immigration status has to do with racist mentalities.

Frontline take on it:

[blackjack21]

Frontline take on it:

Ha ha ha! It kind of opens like Oliver Stone's Nixon with the dark foreboding music, and Nixon sort or lurching about hissing "cocksuckers!" If anything, Frontline is good at propaganda. Clearly, they take Corey Lewandowski out of context. The b-roll of ICE is priceless! Love the foreboding music! Did you fall for all of that?

[Tainari88]

Ha ha ha! It kind of opens like Oliver Stone's Nixon with the dark foreboding music, and Nixon sort or lurching about hissing "cocksuckers!" If anything, Frontline is good at propaganda. Clearly, they take Corey Lewandowski out of context. The b-roll of ICE is priceless! Love the foreboding music! Did you fall for all of that?

No, BJ, I did not fall for anything. What is interesting is that no one talks about deporting Obama for being born in Kenya or for Ted Cruz being deported to Canada while he is encouraging the far Right shit. Why? Because the birther lies were about smearing anyone who might be not considered an American.

What is out of context BJ? Mexican immigrants being compared to snakes that will bite the hand that feeds it? And making blanket statements about millions of people and piling them into rapists and snake categories in order for nationalistic mentalities to get very angry about their territory being invaded by vermin?

What is the purpose of all that shit BJ? For some Trump supporters to feel that he is part of a privileged club of people who are USA citizens and he has a right or she has a right to oust the ones who are not really Americans at all but snakes, vermin, and sub-humans.

Well, I have a tutor for my son here in Mexico. She came in for breakfast today as usual and she says to me in Spanish, "What is going on in the USA? People are whispering about a possible civil war there?" I told her, "They have a lot of people who think the election was stolen or a fraud. They are angry and want to challenge the election results and change the system." She replies, "It will destabilize the country even if they are right. They need to accept the loss and try to win the next election. Election fraud happens in a lot of countries. You can't start a civil war over dirty politicians. No one wants mass shootings in the streets like with the Mexican Revolution. You get mass unemployment and we got enough problems with the pandemic. Are those Americans stupid or something? Trump lied about a lot of things. All politicians are liars. Nothing new about that. You don't destabilize a nation in the middle of a deadly pandemic. Have they lost their minds?"

Lol. She does make some good points.

No, Blackjack21 I am not fooled. The USA is a nation of immigrants. Why should your grandmother from Ireland be any different from some Honduran wanting a better life and not having enough money to qualify for a legit visa to the USA? The only native people of the USA were Native American tribes and they compose less than 2% of the total of the USA population BJ. So most people are the sons and daughters of immigrants. Post WWII the majority of new American citizens are not really European background Americans. They are going to be African, Arab, Indian and Chinese and Mexican and Latin American. Guaranteed. You want them to all be Republicans? LOL.

The Democratic Party is not the KKK party BJ. It has not been that way since the Dixiecrats and the Southern Strategy happened in the 1960s. Obama won being a democrat. He knew the Dems were not KKK racists like in the 1920s. Political parties evolve and morph. The USA parties are morphing parties like MOST POLITICAL PARTIES ALL OVER THE WORLD IN MANY NATIONS. This is not different or weird BJ. It is normal. El PRI in Mexico was a radical party during the 1930s and so on. It is now a neoliberal conservative party. It went from a Revolutionary far left party to a very status quo elitist party with Mexican characteristics.

Your constant insistence in trying to slough off the racism that is displayed in the Republican party of Lindsay Graham and Orrin Hatch and Kevin McCarthy and Mitch McConnell and Strom Thurmond and so on and so forth is BULLSHIT. That Republican party is going to die BJ. Why? Because unless it embraces the neoliberal love of diversity and multiculturalism to keep international capitalist profit margins going in the world and bolstering thriving bankers it will LOSE POWER nationally FOREVER. You need to understand that the racism and exclusion of the past needs to be dumped. But since the die hards keep thinking multiculturalism and racist narratives are the tool of two faced liberals is all spent out.....they don't have to concede anything about racism in their party.

The demographics are not going to make the Republican party grow BJ at all. The Blacks, Latinos still in large quantities keep voting for the Democrats. Why? They see the racists in the Republican party. They flee that shitty image. Change the image to appeal to Blacks and have them give up leftism. How do you do that? By sharing business profits, giving loans, not having cops shooting black people and doing hard work working with the Black communities and Latin American communities, Asians who are liberal often cite their discomfort with racists in the Republican party.

You tried running Herman Caine and other conservative types. They did not clinch the nomination in the Republican column. Why? Answer that question.

Sharing power with the people who are not of European background but sharing the political philosophy of the conservative column. It is not hard. Because Latin America is filled with conservative Latin Americans, Africa has conservative politicians and authoritarians and so does Asia. It has nothing to do with race. it has to do with political mentalities. Hanging on to obsolete stuff about racial categories is going to kill any chances the Republican column has on voters. If they can get enough voters to believe that conservative America is their America? No need for a civil war now? But if you hang on to bullshit pecking orders were Blacks and Latinos etc are genetically inferior and as a group are doomed for underclass status for all time? You will implode that party. Guaranteed.

[blackjack21]

What is interesting is that no one talks about deporting Obama for being born in Kenya or for Ted Cruz being deported to Canada while he is encouraging the far Right shit.

They had at least one parent with US citizenship, which automatically confers US citizenship. So none of it mattered.

Because the birther lies were about smearing anyone who might be not considered an American.

It was more of a red herring.

What is out of context BJ? Mexican immigrants being compared to snakes that will bite the hand that feeds it?

Trump used that for unvetted Syrian refugees, not Mexicans.

Why should your grandmother from Ireland be any different from some Honduran wanting a better life and not having enough money to qualify for a legit visa to the USA?

Laws.

The Democratic Party is not the KKK party BJ. It has not been that way since the Dixiecrats and the Southern Strategy happened in the 1960s.

Sure it has. Almost all of the segregationists remained with the Democratic party.

Obama won being a democrat.

The irony of Obama's triumph over Hillary Clinton is that he used a red state strategy to outfox her strength with the urban Democrat political machine.

He knew the Dems were not KKK racists like in the 1920s.

Obama himself is racist.

Your constant insistence in trying to slough off the racism that is displayed in the Republican party of Lindsay Graham and Orrin Hatch and Kevin McCarthy and Mitch McConnell and Strom Thurmond and so on and so forth is BULLSHIT.

Of that list, only Strom Thurmond was a segregationist who switched from the Democrats to the Republicans. Mitch McConnell is married to an Asian woman--so not a very effective racist if that's what you think he is.

That Republican party is going to die BJ.

I really don't care about the Republican party. I hope it does die.

The Blacks, Latinos still in large quantities keep voting for the Democrats. Why?

That's mostly true of blacks, but that's also because many are dependent on the welfare state.

They see the racists in the Republican party. They flee that shitty image.

Oh please. Who is shooting them in inner cities? Democrats or Republicans? Obviously, it's Democrats. Democrats are very violent people.

By sharing business profits, giving loans, not having cops shooting black people and doing hard work working with the Black communities and Latin American communities, Asians who are liberal often cite their discomfort with racists in the Republican party.

It was Jack Kemp who pushed for expanded home loans for blacks, and led to a big part of the subprime crisis in 2008-2009. As for cops, again, they are mostly controlled by Democrats, not Republicans. Asians face discrimination in higher ed, which once again is mostly Democrats. It's right there plain as day.

You tried running Herman Caine and other conservative types. They did not clinch the nomination in the Republican column. Why? Answer that question.

No constituency.

But if you hang on to bullshit pecking orders were Blacks and Latinos etc are genetically inferior and as a group are doomed for underclass status for all time?

You keep bringing up the term hierarchy. What Charles Murray and Richard Herrnstein discussed was a bell curve, which is distribution--even within the same racial group. The only point they were making is that some people aren't college material. They weren't saying some people are genetically inferior at all. If you don't read the book, you don't know what it says.

You will implode that party. Guaranteed.

Concern trolling me on the Republican party is pointless. I live in California. The Republicans are useless, because they won't fight the culture war. They are only interested in finance. For all practical purposes, they collapsed a long time ago. Newt Gingrich was the last fiscally conservative leader of the Republicans. That's going back 20 years now.

[Tainari88]

They had at least one parent with US citizenship, which automatically confers US citizenship. So none of it mattered.

Don't be coy BJ. Smear campaigns are effective tools to deligimatize a politician or a party. If I spread lies constantly about Trump having sex with his daughter Ivanka and kept insisting that he was a pedophile and he had sex with Ivanka and that is why he said this on a talk show? And made it a talking point and forced Trump to produce evidence of him not having sex with his daughter and he needs to confess or else? Is that ok with you? Smear campaigns are damaging. Spreading untruths to create doubt in political enemies is not ethical and you can actually damage them for life. It is bad ethics. But what if I doctor some evidence and create a false tape of Ivanka saying "Daddy touched me in my private parts and climbed into bed with me at night and that is why he is obsessed with me and got on the Howard Stern show and called me a great piece of ass.' And the entire democratic establishment started spreading rumors about the Republicans being kiddie porn people and worshiping the devil. Then doctoring videos about Ivanka having incestual relations with her father? Since the age of nine and, that is two or three years of that constant shit. A law suit and Obama then doesn't let it go...uses his connections to continue to push the lie? That is dangerous BJ.



It was more of a red herring.
Whatever BJ, you look for excuses for behavior that you would protest vigorously on the other party. That is crap ethics and you have a bad value system and always have. I understand why you do. But for me conservatives usually have awful values, they don't believe in equality and it is all a slippery slope from there. Subhumans and power is important for Machivellian conservatives. The Republican party are Machivellians and so are the Democrats. The rot is really bad in the USA because both parties are rotten.


Trump used that for unvetted Syrian refugees, not Mexicans.

Mexico has Syrian families here. They live side by side with the Roman Catholic Mexicans and are not a threat to the Mexican government BJ. Neither are the rest of the political asylees and the rest. Diversity of political thought, race, and ethnic groups is not anything new in other countries BJ outside of the USA. All of the world has to cope with displaced people due to war, unstable governments, poverty, environmental catastrophes and natural disasters and disease and collapsing economies and lack of stability. People are not neat packages where everyone lives in their own ethnic group's neighborhoods only and no one has to deal with a foreign element in their midst. Latin America is diverse. So is Africa, Asia and Europe. Canada actively recruits Mexican citizens to work in Canada. The USA thinking everyone is the enemy of they are immigrants is false BJ.
Also, you can't really be wanting the best and the brightest anymore from nations that are doing well and are progressing on infrastructure and have very healthy welfare states BJ. Why would a Norweigian college grad in a STEM field want to leave Europe or why would a German medical surgeon want to leave Germany and go through the hassle of going to the USA to become a USA citizen when they already have a high quality of life in the native society? The answer is they won't do it en masse. Maybe one or two who fall in love with an American citizen and move....but most won't do it BJ. The hassle is not worth it. So who does the hassle of coping with immigration? People who find it advantageous to immigrate and can go through the process because in their own nations it is problematic. To find work. To get a higher education or to open a business or reach a goal like sports training or being some master artist or have special skills. Most people from Mexico, Honduras etc don't get great educations, don't speak English and don't make more than some low wage in their own society. The USA is an improvement. They go and take the opportunity. The USA should be encouraging PhDs in native USA citizens by making sure $$$ and debt are not barriers to encouraging USA citizen native grow up types to stay and work it out and serve the nation. Right now more than half have to come from outside the USA because the USA is not graduating enough of its own people in hard science, medical and etc careers...they give too much emphasis to BULLSHIT. Not on hard skills. That is the USA gov't fault. Not other nations.


Laws.

Because it is the law it is what? Just? Ethical? Good for society? Not necessarily BJ--lawyers can and are many times technical people with little to recommend them but abysmal greed and need to be in powerful positions. Example are the many lawyers you love like Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton, Obama and Michelle, and many other senators and congresspeople who dedicate themselves to being lawyers out for personal gain and advancement. All of them know what a law is. It doesn't make it just.

Sure it has. Almost all of the segregationists remained with the Democratic party.
You hold on to the blindness of Republican racist KKK members. David Duke was a Republican so was Strom Thurmond and so are many of the fringe people spouting shit theories about inferior genes and Blacks are predators. I won't argue with your faulty logic about morphing political parties because for you? You fail to acknowledge that there are a lot of racists in the Republican party of Trump.


The irony of Obama's triumph over Hillary Clinton is that he used a red state strategy to outfox her strength with the urban Democrat political machine.

Politicians especially neoliberals will use whatever to snatch victory. And don't think they don't have more dirty tricks in the basement. Lol. Ave Maria BJ. You are so into denial...



Obama himself is racist.
It is an issue for a person who thinks Obama is a racist. He is a mulatto BJ. Normal for people from the Caribbean. No big deal. It wasn't illegal to marry people who were not your same ethnic group in such a society. He is against white people? No, he was raised by his white liberal mother. That is who he is inside. A white liberal. With an absentee Kenyan father he never knew. That doesn't make him a racist. It makes him a white liberal with a mulatto face. Lol. One of many people in the world. And the Democrats are embracing diversity. If the old Joe Biden man keels over....I expect you to love your new VP turned President 47 Kamala Harris. A neoliberal schemer with the right ethnic group and a high IQ....made to rule over your stubborn conservative self. Such a schemer that woman is....she is a total Democratic machine loyalist. Love her and love her African liberal image....she will beat your hiarchy loving self with it....you are foolish BJ with your stuff.


Of that list, only Strom Thurmond was a segregationist who switched from the Democrats to the Republicans. Mitch McConnell is married to an Asian woman--so not a very effective racist if that's what you think he is.


No BJ you don't seem to get that you can be a racist and be married to someone of a different race. Didn't you get the memo that being a racist is not for bad people or for Master Race/Aryan Race purity types. It has to do with people who believe in keeping capitalism in play and being believers in class systems and hierarchies and associating themselves with the superior group. That goes for all ethnic groups all over the world. Elaine Chao is a conservative woman who has the mentality that McConnell approves of. In the end, it is about mentality and political philosophies and belief in conservative values not if she is Chinese or African. One would know that if you understood how racism is categorized by many political movements all over the world. But I forgive you for your lack of education on that subject BJ. You are a nationalist and don't pay attention to a lot of things you should pay attention to because you are stuck with bullshit stereotypes. Lol.



I really don't care about the Republican party. I hope it does die.

Well, Trumpers in the GOP will give it the death blow. I think McConnell knows this.


That's mostly true of blacks, but that's also because many are dependent on the welfare state.

Do you think the wealthy robber barons and industrialists that had to negotiate with FDR liked the idea of the welfare state during the Great Depression? No, they hated the idea. But they had to give in. Why? It is a study in the evolution of the boom or bust capitalism of that era. It stabilized the system. And because of that you avoid perpetual revolution of a constant unemployed and a disgruntled class of people that never have access to decently paid work BJ. The system used to thrive from a race to the bottom for working people. Now it is a big liability. They are going to have to do UBI BJ. If they displace mass amounts of truck drivers, machinists, and people with vocational school types of skills and even middle-class workers like computer programmers and many others? They are going to have a real problem on their hands with people getting no retraining and that have no access to college tuition costs because they can't afford to carry student debt. Fascist style tracking and a lot of money has to be invested in more publicly funded higher education institutions and also finding jobs that are going to be done by non-humans. They can liberate the labor force and instead of making them a dead weight they can fully invest them in great educations, creative projects, and letting them have freedom from worrying about meals and basics. Renew the social contract. It is either that or they burn the whole new AI world down because they are used kleenex in the Brave New society.



Oh please. Who is shooting them in inner cities? Democrats or Republicans? Obviously, it's Democrats. Democrats are very violent people.

Lol. I think Americans in general have solved most of their disputes with shootouts with Indians, shootouts in wars and shootouts in general. And the conservatives are not the most tame group of pendejos in the world are they? They should try to stop the mass school shootings they get periodically. Instead of laying all the blame on Democrats.


It was Jack Kemp who pushed for expanded home loans for blacks, and led to a big part of the subprime crisis in 2008-2009. As for cops, again, they are mostly controlled by Democrats, not Republicans. Asians face discrimination in higher ed, which once again is mostly Democrats. It's right there plain as day.
That subprime deal is about lack of ethics capitalist loving pendejos. Don't say it ain't!

Then why the VP Kamala and the ex prez 44 Obama if the Democratic party is so racist? So far the Republicans need some Oreo or Candice Owens shilling for them and their politically incorrect conservatism. I think you should marry a black woman and forget about marrying a white woman. Find a black woman who is into all your politics and be the hip Conservative couple. I am smiling right now....I picture it. Blackjack has a girlfriend he likes...she spouts the same politics and is going to dismantle the betrayal of nationalist values....she is on the far-Right and is with a Black face. Because that is what Candice did. She married a conservative white Englishman with a fine Anglo pedigree proving that it is not only the Lefty Liberals who are inclusive....but that the Right loves diversity. Let me laugh! Are you going to marry or date some Black women that are angry at the Democratic party machine BJ?? Yes or no? Hee hee hee.


No constituency.

Hmmm. What does this mean?

You keep bringing up the term hierarchy. What Charles Murray and Richard Herrnstein discussed was a bell curve, which is distribution--even within the same racial group. The only point they were making is that some people aren't college material. They weren't saying some people are genetically inferior at all. If you don't read the book, you don't know what it says.

I ain't talking about Charles Murray and the Flynn Effect I am talking about bringing back shit from the past. Like discrimination and barring people from jobs and opportunities. They do this effectively with redlining loans and etc. But? I don't know about you BJ. I truly think you are into some kind of Gene theory. But you are not reproducing and so on....I asked you before? Is it about genes or is it about corazon? A kind person who is loving and good and loyal and fair and just? Because that is the superior relationship. Not the one about perfect looks or perfect whatever. Perfection is impossible with humans BJ. You are old enough to know this.


Concern trolling me on the Republican party is pointless. I live in California. The Republicans are useless, because they won't fight the culture war. They are only interested in finance. For all practical purposes, they collapsed a long time ago. Newt Gingrich was the last fiscally conservative leader of the Republicans. That's going back 20 years now.

But BJ (Tainari raises her voice and taps her foot), being only interested in finance is CAPITALIST. Accept that shitty value system of MONEY IS MY GOD. It sucks. But that is what it boils down to. One of the deadly sins. Greed. Money above all else.....didn't the Old Testament warn against such ancient sin? You tell me....you Mammon worshiping Relampaguito in Northern Cali---for---nia---ay.

[blackjack21]

Don't be coy BJ. Smear campaigns are effective tools to deligimatize a politician or a party.

Sure. We just spent 5 years listening to Russian conspiracy theory bullshit. It goes both ways. I don't deny that.

Whatever BJ, you look for excuses for behavior that you would protest vigorously on the other party.

I was never a birther. I thought the whole thing was a red herring. Hillary Clinton's campaign first suggested it, but I think Obama liked it because he knew that people who believed it were effectively neutered politically by chasing phantoms. QAnon stuff is that way as well.

But for me conservatives usually have awful values, they don't believe in equality and it is all a slippery slope from there.

Actually, a lot of conservatives are egalitarians. I only subscribe to that as uniformity in the application of laws. I do not think people are born equal, socially, economically, genetically, etc. In this sense, I think equality as a concept has outlived its usefulness. Most conservatives generally have Christian, Jewish or another religious background, etc. Why you think they are all bad is probably just mass media portrayals.

They live side by side with the Roman Catholic Mexicans and are not a threat to the Mexican government BJ.

The Mexican government is not a target of Islamic terrorism.

Also, you can't really be wanting the best and the brightest anymore from nations that are doing well and are progressing on infrastructure and have very healthy welfare states BJ. Why would a Norweigian college grad in a STEM field want to leave Europe or why would a German medical surgeon want to leave Germany and go through the hassle of going to the USA to become a USA citizen when they already have a high quality of life in the native society?

I work with people who leave those places for the US all the time. They have their reasons. Heck, Linux Torvalds is Finnish, and he left Finland to live in the United States and is now a US citizen.

Maybe one or two who fall in love with an American citizen and move....but most won't do it BJ. The hassle is not worth it.

There's more to it than that. People with STEM degrees often are extended more opportunities. Europe is very class-oriented, and if you're not from the right class or don't have the right accent, you get passed over for promotion in Europe. The US doesn't work that way. So there are a lot more opportunities.

The USA should be encouraging PhDs in native USA citizens by making sure $$$ and debt are not barriers to encouraging USA citizen native grow up types to stay and work it out and serve the nation. Right now more than half have to come from outside the USA because the USA is not graduating enough of its own people in hard science, medical and etc careers...they give too much emphasis to BULLSHIT. Not on hard skills. That is the USA gov't fault. Not other nations.

Right. And it's mostly Democrats that push all this horseshit. It's certainly not conservatives.

Example are the many lawyers you love like Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton, Obama and Michelle, and many other senators and congresspeople who dedicate themselves to being lawyers out for personal gain and advancement.

What makes you think I love those people?

You hold on to the blindness of Republican racist KKK members. David Duke was a Republican so was Strom Thurmond and so are many of the fringe people spouting shit theories about inferior genes and Blacks are predators. I won't argue with your faulty logic about morphing political parties because for you? You fail to acknowledge that there are a lot of racists in the Republican party of Trump.

Blacks are predators? Can we talk about Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton for a moment? Who was it that called inner city blacks "super predators"? Can you say, "Hillary Rodham Clinton" with me? Who wrote that 1994 crime bill? Can you say "Joe Biden"? What kind of people is Biden appointing to the DoJ? People who put a black man in prison for 27 years for selling less than $20 worth of drugs. Look at the track record.

If the old Joe Biden man keels over....I expect you to love your new VP turned President 47 Kamala Harris.

Why? I obviously don't agree with her politics.

No BJ you don't seem to get that you can be a racist and be married to someone of a different race.

Ok. I guess we can look to Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemmings, eh? Do you think Mitch McConnell talks to her in a mock Chinese accent? I'm guessing that's a no.

Well, Trumpers in the GOP will give it the death blow. I think McConnell knows this.

And probably well they should.

Do you think the wealthy robber barons and industrialists that had to negotiate with FDR liked the idea of the welfare state during the Great Depression? No, they hated the idea.

It depends. Mass production types liked it, because redistribution increases aggregate demand for their products.

And because of that you avoid perpetual revolution of a constant unemployed and a disgruntled class of people that never have access to decently paid work BJ.

Yes. And you tie them to a political party and make them subservient to and always voting for the political party that provides handouts.

They should try to stop the mass school shootings they get periodically.

Mass shooters are usually on prescription drugs that were probably mis-prescribed.

Instead of laying all the blame on Democrats.

Democrats blame everyone but themselves. Yet, if you want to talk about many of these serious social issues, you'll find that they are typically happening where Democrats are in charge. Nancy Pelosi's Congressional district, for example, has a GINI co-efficient that's worse than the Congo.

That subprime deal is about lack of ethics capitalist loving pendejos. Don't say it ain't!

I think it was deeply misguided, but it was sold on extending credit to the less fortunate.

Then why the VP Kamala and the ex prez 44 Obama if the Democratic party is so racist?

Kamala was forced on Biden for making all the racist remarks he did in 2020. Don't you remember? Unlike Blacks, you Hispanics have a broad diversity of views. If you aren't voting for Joe Biden, you ain't black, etc.

Obama? I really don't know, but the show 24 was laying the groundwork for a black president during the Bush years. Maybe they thought his name sounded like Osama bin Laden. Who knows?

Are you going to marry or date some Black women that are angry at the Democratic party machine BJ?? Yes or no?

Unlikely. I don't particularly want to be married legally speaking. Keeping the state out of my life is something I prefer.

But BJ (Tainari raises her voice and taps her foot), being only interested in finance is CAPITALIST.

Indeed, but it is not conservative. Capitalism is an economic system. It's not a religion, a culture, a language, etc.

[Verv]

No BJ you don't seem to get that you can be a racist and be married to someone of a different race.

This was the best new quip of the 2010s.

It's one of those ways to shut down middle class white dudes with Asian or castiza girlfriends/wives to check themselves before they speak too freely on a subject.

But there's also a grain of truth in it... Plenty of Asians & Latinos have transgressive views on race. It's not a wrong statement... but I always feel like it's never meant to be a phrase that is supposed to be discussed.

It's just part of the wooden language of the social justice left.