Elizabeth Warren Proposes "Wealth Tax" - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15162069
This woman was almost US President - she was second in line behind Joe Biden for Democratic nominee.

Senator Elizabeth Warren wants a wealth tax on rich people.

That's right, she wants to tax actual wealth they have, not just their income.

That means after they earn money and pay taxes on that earned money, and then move that money into their savings, they would still have to pay taxes on it every year.

This month Elizabeth Warren proposed the "Ultra Millionaire Tax Act", which would apply a 2% annual levy on households and trusts valued at between $50 million and $1 billion. All net worth over $1 billion would be taxed at 3%.

So what, you might ask. These are rich people. Well, if they can do it to them, you know it won't be too far down the line when they'll start eyeing the bank accounts of people with less money.


This type of idea is not completely unprecedented. In Australia there have been serious proposals for negative interest rates. That's where you have to pay money to keep your money in the bank. Who would keep their money in the bank with this sort of thing going on? Well the country has begun subtly making moves towards the direction of a cashless society. The Australian government recently passed a law making it illegal to make large purchases in cash (including gold/silver and foreign currencies). It has to be done through a bank or credit card or other financial institution. This caused an uproar among conservatives because many suspected it was the first step towards being able to implement the idea of negative interest rates. If you can't use cash, or the cash doesn't exist in physical form, you would be forced to keep it in the bank.

Apparently there are some economists who are frustrated that government can't push interest rates below zero, and think negative interest rates would force people to spend money and stimulate the economy. (or at least that's the excuse)


Elizabeth Warren's idea apparently was too extreme even for Bill Gates, who remarked in a recent interview about higher taxes that there were "some proposals that seem to go too far".

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/b ... d=msedgntp


And let's not forget that Elizabeth Warren was considered one of the more "moderate" candidates for Democratic nominee, compared to most of the others. (The only one more moderate than her was Biden)


Let's do a little math. With a 2% wealth tax, if had $100, half it would be gone in 35 years.

Or suppose banks were paying a 2% interest rate. Well then, if you put $100 in the bank, that money would not grow. It would be lent out to someone else to make a profit, but you would not get that profit.

At a 3% wealth tax rate, half your money would be gone after 23 years.



Oh and by the way, even this wealth tax that Elizabeth Warren is proposing, on households with wealth of over $50 million, would still only add $78 million to the government revenues - that's really a tiny drop in the bucket. You know they're going to start looking at households with lower amounts of wealth - say $10 million or $2 million. That's really where most of the money is. (There's just not actually that many super-rich people)


You people don't know progressives. If they see wealth, they want to grab it and immediately spend it.

Look, I have no problem with higher taxes on the rich, but I've gotten to know some of these people in discussions on this (and other) forums, and if they were able to get their way, the country would end up bankrupt like Greece. Not just the country but they would bankrupt the entire economy. Margaret Thatcher's quote may sound like an implausibly absurd caricature of the Left, and simplistically cliche, but sadly it probably does capture an element of truth; "The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." They just can't help themselves, it's in their nature.
#15162074
Conceptually taxing wealth is not right to me, but they merely need better definitions.

If I were her I would try to tax more based on all tax returns we get so far, and so long as the corps in concern are still capable, charge a higher rate from those figures and no more.

Or simply tax a high percentage of recent revenue for a short period.

But in any case, taxing wealth included, corps can simply move offshore to evade all this.
#15162212
Puffer Fish wrote:Let's do a little math. With a 2% wealth tax, if had $100, half it would be gone in 35 years.

No your $100 would be untouched by this tax as it only applies to wealth above $50 million. All wealth below that is not taxed. It's interesting that it would take 23 years to cut Warren Buffet's net worth in half. Warren and other robber barons have pledged to give most of their money away but have failed miserably. He has grown richer and richer despite donating 11 figure sums to charitable ventures. A wealth tax would be a useful tool to ensure that he manages to divest himself of his hoard before his great grandchildren die of old age.

Puffer Fish wrote:only add $78 million to the government revenues

3% of $100 billion is $3 billion. That's the revenue from Warren Buffet alone.
I don't know where you got 78 mil from.
#15162224
Puffer Fish wrote:
Look, I have no problem with higher taxes on the rich, but I've gotten to know some of these people in discussions on this (and other) forums, and if they were able to get their way, the country would end up bankrupt like Greece.



Greece can't do what we do, and Germany's been a real dick about it.

We can't go bankrupt, but we could set off a nasty inflationary spiral.
#15162230
Well, the wealthy might see an increase in their taxes anyhow. Someone has to help pay for all the stimulus checks that have been distributed in the US thus far. The current one is #3? The Fed is not just printing paper.

I will be very happy to be receiving my third stimulus check. It is a good supplement to my humble pay. :D
#15162672
late wrote:Greece can't do what we do, and Germany's been a real dick about it.

We can't go bankrupt, but we could set off a nasty inflationary spiral.

What you don't seem to realize is that an inflationary spiral could send interest rates on the national debt skyrocketing, and potentially lead to a default. Unless the Fed steps in to do an emergency buyout of all the debt, but then that would really set off inflation, and probably permanently ruin the country's credit rating or ability to borrow ever again.
#15162678
Puffer Fish wrote:
What you don't seem to realize is that an inflationary spiral could send interest rates on the national debt skyrocketing, and potentially lead to a default. Unless the Fed steps in to do an emergency buyout of all the debt, but then that would really set off inflation, and probably permanently ruin the country's credit rating or ability to borrow ever again.



I can remember people saying that when dinosaurs roamed the Earth. They were saying that in the 80s, when the debt was roughly one trillion. At the beginning of that decade, we did have inflation. Shortly after Volcker got it under control, Reagan went on a frenzy of spending and tax cuts. We've had a ton of mostly Republican deficit spending since then. Not much in the way of inflation.

You missed a small point, inflation reduces the value of debt by reducing the value of a dollar.

We've sluiced trillions and trillions into the pockets of the rich, who didn't need it. This time it goes to the little guy, and he needs it. There is risk, there is risk no matter what, but it's a reasonable risk.
#15162737
Unthinking Majority wrote:
How do you tax wealth? LOL what a dumb idea.



When a country wants to become capitalist one of the things that has to be done is an estate tax. Which taxes wealth.

Busting up large, stagnant pools of capital is a precondition to becoming capitalist.
#15162770
MistyTiger wrote:Well, the wealthy might see an increase in their taxes anyhow. Someone has to help pay for all the stimulus checks that have been distributed in the US thus far. The current one is #3? The Fed is not just printing paper.

I will be very happy to be receiving my third stimulus check. It is a good supplement to my humble pay. :D


People in favor of income redistribution are often on the receiving end of the income . They are not the ones losing money to supplement others.

Image
#15162771
late wrote:I can remember people saying that when dinosaurs roamed the Earth. They were saying that in the 80s, when the debt was roughly one trillion. At the beginning of that decade, we did have inflation. Shortly after Volcker got it under control, Reagan went on a frenzy of spending and tax cuts. We've had a ton of mostly Republican deficit spending since then. Not much in the way of inflation.

You missed a small point, inflation reduces the value of debt by reducing the value of a dollar.

We've sluiced trillions and trillions into the pockets of the rich, who didn't need it. This time it goes to the little guy, and he needs it. There is risk, there is risk no matter what, but it's a reasonable risk.


The issue is whether the need of others is the first mortgage on your life and the moral purpose of your existence.
Ayn Rand
#15162776
Julian658 wrote:People in favor of income redistribution are often on the receiving end of the income . They are not the ones losing money to supplement others.

Image


I see nothing wrong with income redistribution. The wealthy would just love to hold 80% of the money for themselves. This is wrong. Others who have less should have the chance to get more money. Notice that I did not say that anyone is "entitled" to the money. I said "chance". I do not approve of people hoarding up as much as possible and weaker ones or disadvantaged have very little. This is how having immigrant parents affected me. They had very little money, 3 suitcases and the clothes on their back when they immigrated to the US. They worked hard and saved up to be able to afford the house and to be able to remain in this country. Not every immigrant has what it takes to stay. And some lose their sanity. My father studied his ass off and lost a lot of sleep. He and my mom lived on his small stipend for years while he was a poor grad student. He was determined to live a life here and he succeeded. It seems unfair that the rich do not go through that much suffering and they just keep earning thousands of dollars every hour.
#15162791
MistyTiger wrote:I see nothing wrong with income redistribution. The wealthy would just love to hold 80% of the money for themselves. This is wrong. Others who have less should have the chance to get more money. Notice that I did not say that anyone is "entitled" to the money. I said "chance". I do not approve of people hoarding up as much as possible and weaker ones or disadvantaged have very little. This is how having immigrant parents affected me. They had very little money, 3 suitcases and the clothes on their back when they immigrated to the US. They worked hard and saved up to be able to afford the house and to be able to remain in this country. Not every immigrant has what it takes to stay. And some lose their sanity. My father studied his ass off and lost a lot of sleep. He and my mom lived on his small stipend for years while he was a poor grad student. He was determined to live a life here and he succeeded. It seems unfair that the rich do not go through that much suffering and they just keep earning thousands of dollars every hour.


The ancestors of those that have a lot of money today worked as hard as your dad. This was done over many generations and that is how you see people born into a well to do family.

Giving rewards when no effort is made creates a person with no character that eventually becomes nihilistic.

In all endeavors there are some that reach the top and leave the average behind.

The Pareto principle states that for many outcomes, roughly 80% of consequences come from 20% of the causes .
It has been argued that the Pareto principle applies to sport, where leading players often take the majority of wins.
In health care in the United States, in one instance 20% of patients have been found to use 80% of health care resources.[25][26][27] The Dunedin Study has found 80% of crimes are committed by 20% of criminals.
WIKI

IN other words some people do way better than others when opportunity is the same all.
#15162792
late wrote:Ayn Rand was a deranged lunatic.

An Ad Hominem to Ayn Rand is not an argument.


Why must man live for the sake of others?

A man has no right to exist for his own sake, that service to others is the only justification of his existence, and that self-sacrifice is his highest moral duty, virtue and value. Really?
#15162826
late wrote:Logic doesn't rewrite reality.

Sociopaths are not how you govern a country, as Trump just proved.

You are using Ad Hominem (Sociopath and lunatic) to make your argument. Lunatics are perfectly capable of making a sound argument.

The issue is whether the need of others is the first mortgage on your life and the moral purpose of your existence.

You can agree or disagree and say why.
The issue is whether others should force a citizen to cough up money so they can use it for themselves. Ayn Rand has no issue with those that voluntarily give up their cash to others. Should your neighbor have the ability take your income because he feels he needs it more than you do?
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