Is China winning the space race? - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15177178
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-57504052.amp

Firstly I would like to congratulate Musk on his achievements with SpaceX and getting America to be self reliant again. But he does run a commercial enterprise where profits outweighs exploration and as such his ambitions have been to make space flight affordable rather than any advancement in space exploration currently. Another innovatior is Bezos and his commercial space enterprise Blue Origin. Whilst China has taken a different path it seems. Whilst America is trying to get people into space to make money, China is trying to plant their flag into space everywhere it can and as soon as it can. They currently have their own space station, making steps on a lunar base as well as getting man back to the Moon, sending a rovers to Mars and have ambitions to reach there before the end of the next few decades as well. And when those are the targets, how is that not a win when your opposition are thinking of profit margins all the time? Once you have built a presence, especially if you are the first, it is almost impossible to lose. Space tourism may well make the most money, but the future of space is all about dominance I would say. And I cannot see how America plans on keeping up with China when all the decision makers are shareholders and not governance.
#15177183
We had our own Space station in the 1970s.

So China is doing what we did a half century ago, can I panic later?

In terms of Space science, the West is even further ahead...

We are at the point where the projects are so big, they require multinational financing. Things like a station at L5, or a base on the Moon, will have to be multinational.

China is doing the showy stuff to make themselves look good. But will they really do their long term goals, like mining the Moon? Kinda doubt it.
#15177185
late wrote:We had our own Space station in the 1970s.

So China is doing what we did a half century ago, can I panic later?

In terms of Space science, the West is even further ahead...

We are at the point where the projects are so big, they require multinational financing. Things like a station at L5, or a base on the Moon, will have to be multinational.

China is doing the showy stuff to make themselves look good. But will they really do their long term goals, like mining the Moon? Kinda doubt it.


Comparing space stations 50 years apart is like comparing Enigma with Deep Blue. :lol:

Also this reads like someone who isn't paying attention it seems or clueless in the topic they decide to engage. China is doing all the advancement right now and I wouldn't even say they are behind given they are ahead in many areas. Sure the US has its shared ISS Station now, but China has its own and will continue to extend it meaning it will have its own station independent from bureaucracy that will rival the ISS. China is also currently ahead on getting to the Moon and are in early stages on a lunar base, two things that the US isn't focusing on given NASA is working with enterprises so limiting its options. Did you know China went to the far side of the Moon BTW? And I would say the first man on Mars will speak Mandarin at the current rate. So no this post is ignorance. China isn't behind anyone and yes they will mine the Moon before the West if there is a reason to do so I would say.
#15177187
@B0ycey

We have already successfully flight tested a rocket referred to as Starship that will be used to put a man on Mars to land back on Earth after launch. China doesn't have reusable rockets like we do which significantly reduces the cost of space flight and makes it easier for us to stay ahead of China. I think it's a far fetch to say that China is "winning" the space race and is a dubious claim. However, China as a space competitor should be taken seriously and not underestimated.
#15177190
Politics_Observer wrote:@B0ycey

We have already successfully flight tested a rocket referred to as Starship that will be used to put a man on Mars to land back on Earth after launch. China doesn't have reusable rockets like we do which significantly reduces the cost of space flight and makes it easier for us to stay ahead of China. I think it's a far fetch to say that China is "winning" the space race and is a dubious claim. However, China as a space competitor should be taken seriously and not underestimated.


Problem for the US. China isn't focused on reusable rockets but achievements. Cost isn't a factor given their hoardings of everyone elses debt. Cost is only a factor if you are trying to increase your profit margins which means that the US will always lead the way in reusable technology.

There is no doubt there is benefits with bringing your space program into the free market, but one negative is what the objective and goals will be for your space agency. Musk and Bezos are only interested in paying customers and not seeking frontiers. They aren't going to invest billions getting to Mars or mining the Moon if there is no return for that investment. China aren't interested in the profit margin given this is a national project. That is why some people might say they are winning. They are moving ahead in projects without needing to consult any shareholders.
#15177191
B0ycey wrote:
Comparing space stations 50 years apart is like comparing Enigma with Deep Blue.

Also this reads like someone who isn't paying attention it seems or clueless in the topic they decide to engage. China is doing all the advancement right now and I wouldn't even say they are behind given they are ahead in many areas. Sure the US has its shared ISS Station now, but China has its own and will continue to extend it meaning it will have its own station independent from bureaucracy that will rival the ISS. China is also currently ahead on getting to the Moon and are in early stages on a lunar base, two things that the US isn't focusing on given NASA is working with enterprises so limiting its options. Did you know China went to the far side of the Moon BTW? And I would say the first man on Mars will speak Mandarin at the current rate. So no this post is ignorance. China isn't behind anyone and yes they will mine the Moon before the West if there is a reason to do so I would say.



Nope.

It was a Space station, and the Chinese station is not going to be super sophisticated, as you seem to be implying.

So China went to the dark side of the Moon. We've been everywhere...

Image


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/14/science/jupiter-juno-nasa-ganymede.html?action=click&module=Science%20%20Technology&pgtype=Homepage
#15177195
@B0ycey

Well hey look, we are sending a mannequin to the moon. NASA needs your help to name the mannequin. What should he or she be named? What do you think B0ycey? :lol: I could just see it floating around in a weightless space capsule doing somersaults.

Kristen Rogers of CNN wrote:One mannequin is about to have a much more astronomical purpose than its peers.
When NASA's Orion spacecraft takes off for the uncrewed Artemis I moon mission currently slated to launch this November, its commander's seat won't be empty: A mannequin -- outfitted with two radiation sensors and a first-generation Orion Crew Survival System spacesuit -- will be riding along to provide data on what human crew members might experience during the Artemis II spaceflight in 2023.


https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/17/us/nasa- ... index.html
Last edited by Politics_Observer on 17 Jun 2021 13:55, edited 1 time in total.
#15177198
When the Chinese space station is up and running it will be super sophisticated @late. I need not imply anything. The Chinese have done that for me and I am just giving you the information they have announced. Although they are super secretive so it may well be more advanced than you currently think anyway. Also you suffer from US mentality of believing your own hype and others stupidity. I would say that is a weakness. Do not underestimated China given that is why they are winning the Capitalism battle today. You gave them their advantage and only now are seeing you lost the Queen a few decades back. But whatever. You haven't landed on the far side of the Moon which in itself is an achievement given the communications rely network. Skills that would be needed when reaching Mars. But sure, you have taken a few photos of the Solar System and whatnot. Should China start colonising the Moon, will that still be classed as losing to you I wonder?
#15177200
Politics_Observer wrote:@B0ycey

Well hey look, we are sending a mannequin to the moon. NASA needs your help to name the mannequin. What should he or she be named? What do you think B0ycey? :lol: I could just see it floating around in a weightless space capsule doing somersaults.


I would be honoured to have the mannequin named after me PO. The name has some relevance to me. I am not against the US achievements in space. I want you to understand that as they have made great steps forward. We have learnt a lot from NASA and that has made humanity better for it. But since you guys have got to the Moon you have lost you advantage and haven't understood what the dominance of Space really means. Do not think China don't understand what you guys have forgotten. If you want to keep up you need to return NASA to a national enterprise and keep Capitalism to the realms of reusable rockets.
#15177202
B0ycey wrote:
When the Chinese space station is up and running it will be super sophisticated @late. I need not imply anything. The Chinese have done that for me and I am just giving you the information they have announced. Although they are super secretive so it may well be more advanced than you currently think anyway. Also you suffer from US mentality of believing your own hype and others stupidity. I would say that is a weakness. Do not underestimated China given that is why they are winning the Capitalism battle today. You gave them their advantage and only now are seeing you lost the Queen a few decades back. But whatever. You haven't landed on the far side of the Moon which in itself is an achievement given the communications rely network. Skills that would be needed when reaching Mars. But sure, you have taken a few photos of the Solar System and whatnot. Should China start colonising the Moon, will that still be classed as losing to you I wonder?



"It may well be" that Space has a steep learning curve... You haven't said anything. You are speculating about a Space station you don't know about. While we had one in orbit in the 1970s.

But your follow on is a good point, surprisingly. I worry that we will be the Portuguese of Space.
#15177204
Igor Antunov wrote:
What is it with the west and its fixation on races. China is just doing its own thing because the US wouldn't let it participate.



There are Chinese astronauts on the ISS as we speak...

I think that's participating.
#15177205
late wrote:"It may well be" that Space has a steep learning curve... You haven't said anything. You are speculating about a Space station you don't know about. While we had one in orbit in the 1970s.


The space station exists so isn't speculation. It just isn't finished yet. The ISS was the same. It continues to be built on FYI.

One thing I have learnt about China is when they announce something it usually happens. It is the stuff they don't announce that you should worry about. Nobody knew about their Quantum Supremacy until they achieved it and shocked the world.
#15177208
late wrote:There are Chinese astronauts on the ISS as we speak...

I think that's participating.


'The US lets its own citizens participate in the US space program'.

That's cute.

Anyway the core segment is quite roomy, with subsequent sections being even roomier still.



They didn't overload the walls with science experiments and equipment. Keeping it slick.
#15177209
B0ycey wrote:
The space station exists so isn't speculation. It just isn't finished yet.



You are saying it's going to be super sophisticated. What I've seen of their Space program so far hasn't been SOTA (state of the art).

Face it, it's just another LEO station. That's not news, news would be something new...

You bragged about going to the dark side of the Moon. We've had people on the Moon. We've sent devices out of the Solar System, and we've studied most of the stuff in system in depth.

Put simply, you weren't just wrong, you were absurd.
#15177211
late wrote:You are saying it's going to be super sophisticated. What I've seen of their Space program so far hasn't been SOTA (state of the art).

Face it, it's just another LEO station. That's not news, news would be something new...

You bragged about going to the dark side of the Moon. We've had people on the Moon. We've sent devices out of the Solar System, and we've studied most of the stuff in system in depth.

Put simply, you weren't just wrong, you were absurd.


Only "one thing" has left the Solar system and it wasn't intended to do so initially. Also there is a time issue with doing that anyway given it takes decades. China have done something that you haven't and you think that is bragging. It isn't, it is just confirming a fact back to you. Also their space station isn't finished and they seem open for other nations to do joint projects on it. Do not be surprised if Russia leave the ISS for it given it may well be more advanced than the ISS in time.

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