Will Artificial Intelligence end the human race? - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15220207
Well, lots of weird shit happens and I’m too rational to blame it on the supernatural. I came to my own personal belief that the oddities I was encountering in everyday life could be explained by AI. I guess you could call it my coping mechanism; so far it checks out for me. It did however, require me to believe that AI is far more advanced than what we expect. This was not hard for me to reconcile and I still don’t think it sounds too crazy :)

So, that’s me. I answered the OP openly and honestly. Something I should have learned not to do by now :lol:
#15220209
ness31 wrote:Well, lots of weird shit happens and I’m too rational to blame it on the supernatural. I came to my own personal belief that the oddities I was encountering in everyday life could be explained by AI. I guess you could call it my coping mechanism; so far it checks out for me. It did however, require me to believe that AI is far more advanced than what we expect. This was not hard for me to reconcile and I still don’t think it sounds too crazy :)

So, that’s me. I answered the OP openly and honestly. Something I should have learned not to do by now :lol:

This is what you should believe in, @ness31….

Machine Spirit

Hail the Omnissiah! :borg:
#15220211
omg you are such a nerd :lol: But I couldn’t subscribe to animism I’m afraid…too much of a traditionalist and I like to keep things romantic..

What I’m about to say is quite personal, but I’ll say it anyway.

When I first became aware of the ‘oddities’, it almost drove me to the point of a nervous break down. I literally felt as though I had lost my mind. I feel very sorry for the people around me then as I must have seemed psychotic :|

But you know, time heals all wounds and all that jazz
#15220220
Potemkin wrote:Stuff gets called “AI” which actually isn’t AI


This is where I was trying to go with @ness31, by asking for details. I'm sure most of what he was alluding to that is "AI", actually isn't. Social media all by itself isn't AI (though they do deploy some AI in certain areas). The problems of social media are also created by people, not machines. (though the algorithms don't help and in fact encourage, but it's still humans torturing themselves on social media, those algorithms are a problem, but many of them cannot be called AI) The issue of social media is well documented but besides the point.

Anyway, to properly discuss AI and its impact and implications, you have to get down to very specific terms, use cases, applications, etc.. The very broad and uninformed strokes by which ness31 is throwing around his claims, simply isn't good enough. His points are always very nebulous, largely due to his lack of understanding. This is is MO (See Russia threads), makes a claim, then backs away when asked to expand on the claim.

Lots of companies will also bullshit as well. They will claim something is "AI", when it's really just a moving average filter. :lol: Seriously, I've seen that.

To be clear again, I do think AI is going to be the end of us. However, in it's current form, it is still rather crude.

Potemkin wrote:Very hard, actually. Adaptive learning is not easy, and no deterministic coded program can do it effectively. Neural nets are much better at it, but they’re still dumb as a rock compared to the average human.


Exactly. AI is powerful, but fundamentally not really that advanced. In fact, machine learning adn inference is a VERY brute force process. What enables it today, is simply that CPUs finally have enough compute power to enable these applications.

One could make the argument that even what we call as truly AI (Machine learning and inference engines), actually isn't. I don't go that far, but you could make that case if you wanted.
Last edited by Rancid on 31 Mar 2022 12:57, edited 3 times in total.
#15220222
The very broad and uninformed strokes by which ness31 is throwing around his claims, simply isn't good enough. This is is MO (See Russia threads), backs away when asked for more.


I spoke from my own personal experience. I certainly haven’t backed away :)

But I’m not going to delve into a subject with sources etc when I have stated from the outset that my position is premised on a belief that AI is more advanced than is commonly accepted.

What exactly do you want from me man?
#15220224
ness31 wrote:I spoke from my own personal experience. I certainly haven’t backed away :)


It's ok to express personal experience. However the issue is, and the reason you see push back so strong, is that you put forward these personal experience based suspicions/points. When someone questions it, you tend to defend the point as though it is fact, or a solidly defendable position. When it's just a personal suspicion with no really backing.

ness31 wrote:my position is premised on a belief that AI is more advanced than is commonly accepted.


My position is that AI is less advanced than is commonly accepted (I was going to try and walk you through to help you see that point with my questions). I'm basing this not on personal suspension, but on the fact that I work on some things that involve AI. I don't develop AI/ML algorithms, but I do occasionally deploy AI inference engines. I also have an AI expert that reports directly to me who has consistently educated me on AI and machine learning concepts over the last couple of years. I wouldn't call myself an AI expert, but I understand it (limitations, applications, advantages, etc.) more than the average person.

ness31 wrote:What exactly do you want from me man?


Just a little bit of humility.
#15220229
It's ok to express personal experience. However the issue is, and the reason you see push back so strong, is that you put forward these personal experience based suspicions/points. When someone questions it, you tend to defend the point as though it is fact, or a solidly defendable position. When it's just a personal suspicion with no really backing.


Yes, I tend to run with my hunches. I haven’t found the “push back” to be out of the ordinary. It’s you who comes off a touch flustered by my zero interest in trying to proooooooove my point.

My position is that AI is less advanced than is commonly accepted (I was going to try and walk you through to help you see that point with my questions). I'm basing this not on personal suspension, but on the fact that I work on some things that involve AI. I don't develop AI/ML algorithms, but I do occasionally deploy AI inference engines. I also have an AI expert that reports directly to me who has consistently educated me on AI and machine learning concepts over the last couple of years. I wouldn't call myself an AI expert, but I understand it (limitations, applications, advantages, etc.) more than the average person.


I know you’re in that field which is why I’m so surprised at your position :hmm:

I don’t know what to say really…except maybe I live somewhere where AI is more obvious and used much more? :?:

Just a little bit of humility.


Sorry. I will try harder not to be so arrogant.
#15220237
ness31 wrote:It’s you who comes off a touch flustered by my zero interest in trying to proooooooove my point.


Then don't make the point. Otherwise you are spreading misinformation. Seriously, that's basically what you are doing. That, or don't response with nebulous responses that don't actually support the point.
#15220242
Don’t be silly.

I make an unsubstantiated statement, on an Internet forum :roll: and you PLUS everyone else on here is allowed to push back. You can’t just tell me to keep my opinion to myself.

What about if my experience resonates with others and it stops them from feeling like they’re going mad? Isn’t that a positive thing?
#15225128
Was just listening to a Ray Kurzweil talk in Belgium back in 2018, it seems to have been released onto YouTube December 2021. In it he speaks about the “FDA accepting simulated trials to approve vaccines” . In fact considering the age of this talk the prescience Kurzweil displays is flat out weird….well not really because he is a futurist after all. But still….



Don’t just believe me, you listen to it.

Also, was Ben Goertzel a protege of Kurzweils? They have strikingly similar speech patterns…
#15225136
RE: WILL ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE END THE HUMAN RACE?

I don't think we need AI to end the human race when our chimpanzee brains are more than capable of doing a DIY job.


:lol:
#15225193
jimjam wrote:World-renowned physicist Stephen Hawking has warned that artificial intelligence (AI) has the potential to destroy civilization and could be the worst thing that has ever happened to humanity. "Computers can, in theory, emulate human intelligence, and exceed it," he said. "Success in creating effective AI, could be the biggest event in the history of our civilization. Or the worst. We just don't know. So we cannot know if we will be infinitely helped by AI, or ignored by it and side-lined, or conceivably destroyed by it."


Modern "AI" is statistical analysis and other mathematical techniques applied with scale to specific problem solutions or analysis so I wouldn't worry about it. It has no capability to "self-learn" new things and then apply it to new fields beyond what it was designed for.

In simpler words, modern AI is not universal nor is it able to get the data by itself. It is also not capable to apply data by itself to new fields whatever it might be, most of it is human applying it for specific tasks.

Modern "AI" is a farce of sorts, at least in the same understanding as people trying to paint it out to be.
#15225194
Unthinking Majority wrote:A few decades isn't very far away.


We are way more than "few decades" away from having AI like in the movies. One of the fundamental problems is that we don't know how our brain and human in general works in this regard so modern "AI" is just attempts to use mathematical techniques to solve problems which might lead to an AI BUT it is like trying to try things over and over and over and over again and again and again expecting to create Ai. As my experience tells me, without clear understanding of theory, such a complicated thing as an AI will not be created without theory and understanding. It is like creating a nuclear bomb without knowing anything about E=MC^2.
#15225195
The other thing I think will slow the progress of AI is compute power. We expect to see a slow down in technological innovation around the expansion of compute capacity. That is not to say innovation will slow overall, but innovations that require massive amount of compute power like AI will.

This is due to the cost increases we are going to see to improve silicon based computers.
#15225196
Rancid wrote:The other thing I think will slow the progress of AI is compute power. We expect to see a slow down in technological innovation around the expansion of compute capacity. That is not to say innovation will slow overall, but innovations that require massive amount of compute power like AI will.

This is due to the cost increases we are going to see to improve silicon based computers.


It is a bit of a problem yes but it is not a major roadblock. More precisely we don't know if its a roadblock but probably it isn't. The main problem is that we need new techniques be they software approaches, mathematical approaches, biological understanding applied to software and architecture and so on.

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