Culture & Assimilation - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14733332
I'm proud that a Muslim girl like her is proud to be Greek, despite all the "in-your-face" christianity, which is quite severe if you live there and look up close. One doesn't notice as a tourist, but if one lives there for a respectable amount of time, christianity in Greece is very imposing, despite the fact that churches are empty and everyone is an atheist, people are still politically Orthodox like the Irish and the Jews for example and the State is very much so, too.

I have always assumed that it is impossible to be a proud Muslim and a proud Greek at the same time and the State itself enforces that separation explicitly making it even more difficult for Muslims, for example Mosques are banned in Greece, only in Thrace and only Turkish Muslims are allowed by treaty to use their old mosques, not erect any new ones and all Mosques were utterly destroyed by the Greek state in the beginnings, so there is not a single Mosque in Athens, Thessalonike or any major city, unless you go to the Turkish border. And there is certainly more than a million Muslims in Athens alone without a Mosque to attend to.
#14733333
Usually the victorious party captures the flag and parades it around :) I'm sure it's a sign of assimilation, just not the way you think it is. :lol:
#14733334
Smart answer, but I believe you're wrong in this case.

Wouldn't you like to be more like Greece Frollein?, national parades, national dance teaching at school, religion in the state acting some sort of minor bureaucratic apartheid(strong word but essentially the Greek state forces you subtly and subliminally without ever admitting to it and while pretending to be "separated"), morning prayers and all that jazz?

My wife chose and asked to be baptised on her own accord, but I know she was actually coerced subliminally, even if she does not admit to it. She's atheist, why would she give a fuck anyway? But she did.

Or you Albert?
#14733335
Neomon your stance on immigration is conflicting and confusing to me.

If a Muslim girl can be Greek then Christianity is no longer part of Greek identity. If a person from Albania can be Greek without assimilation into Greek nation then, Greece is no longer Greek. It just becomes a state that goes by the name Greece. You might just rename it into "State of the Balkan Peninsula".

You either have a nation state or don't.

If Greeks do have a country for themselves. Then to be Greek one has to assimilate into Greek culture, identity and customs.

Otherwise this girl walking around with a Greek flag and cross is just mockery. To the idea of Greek nation state.

There is a saying: "a wife takes the nation of her husband". Nothing wrong with your wife, so don't fell guilty and make her wear that cross.
Last edited by Albert on 06 Nov 2016 14:04, edited 2 times in total.
#14733336
Yes, I'd like to learn how to dodge taxes, too. :excited:

I like being German. I see no reason to become something else. But, here's the thing: I stay in my own country. If that girl had assimilated, she wouldn't wear the hijab, which implies everyone else who doesn't "cover herself" is a slut.
#14733337
noemon wrote:Because you wonder why is she and her family an immigrant, I guess you can answer that question by yourself, no? I can too, I immigrated to the UK after all looking to explore more than Greece could offer me, though for me it was meant to be temporary, I stayed.

I'm was born in the U.K. Emigrated to Australia as a one year old. When I was 17 I came back to the UK. I know what it is to be an immigrant and the prejudices that I was subjected to. I am white, if you're not white and emigrate to a largely white country, it must be awful.
#14733338
Albanians are identical people to Greeks, they had a shocking Hodza regime for 50 years and that turned them into something weird but they are picking themselves together again. Greece has been the State of the Balkan peninsula where all Balkanians sought assimilation, integration and exchange for thousands of years, even during the Ottomans most of Greece was under Venice and Genoa, people were still coming in to become "Europeans" even during the so-called dark ages. Balkan people as well as Armenians and Georgians can very easily integrate into Greece, extremely easy, aside from language there is absolutely no difference whatsoever, the newcomers do indeed need to be reduced because they are way too many to handle both culturally & economically and I think a stop has been put, new arrivals are very small.

I see no reason to become something else.


It's not something else, all countries had things like that before they drunk the liberal kool-aid or were forced to drink it like in your case, Greece was more resilient to that change because Greek society was more comfortable with such customs and because there is always the Turkish boogey-man, who is both real and imagined, plus we did not lose the war.

Wouldn't you support policies to that effect?
#14733340
I'm not against immigration on principal noemon. Migration has existed in human history since ever so it is obvious it is not the problem. I have a problem with the sick way it is conducted today. With this insane bizarre drive for some ideal utopian multi ethnic society. To it being used by business for cheap labour.

The choice in the end is really simple. Is either you have a state for the nation or you do not. If you want to have a country for Greek nation for example, to support large number of foreigners coming in who do not assimilate or have very little chance that they will. Is contradictory to the idea of nation state.
#14733341
The Greek state as I said is not like Canada, the US, or the UK, it is an ethno-religious state, it assimilates people or spits them out, there is no middle-ground, there is no surviving/living in limbo like you can in your woods. It will force-feed you Greekness/Hellenism or you will leave on your own accord. It's been doing that for ages and has become quite good at it.

That is a main reason why I am not worried, even though Syriza is trying to change that, his slim majority is very weak to do anything and their far-right partners will not have any such "non-sense". Even for the morning prayer, they faced severe opposition but the rest of the parties agreed to it while their coalition partners didn't.
#14733345
noemon wrote:The Greek state as I said is not like Canada, the US, or the UK, it is an ethno-religious state, it assimilates people or spits them out, there is no middle-ground, there is no surviving/living in limbo like you can in your woods. It will force-feed you Greekness/Hellenism or you will leave on your own accord.


The UK is not an ethno-state? Obviously it is not, but it is still not a nation of immigrants like Canada or the US.
#14733348
Then why the Muslim girl wearing the hijab?

Being English, Scot, Welsh or Irish (British) is not abstract. Although I see where you coming from. The Celts have been very heavily anglosized.
Last edited by Albert on 06 Nov 2016 14:14, edited 1 time in total.
#14733349
To be British means nothing really. Being English, Welsh or Scottish means something but British? I couldn't even tell you what a British characteristic is.
#14733350
Albert's in Canada? Please accept my sincerest apologies. Racists are not accepted, nor encouraged, to exist, in Canada(actually they aren't acceptable ANYWHERE). We must have overlooked one of these miscreants.

Again... sorry.

I'd snuff him out if I had the opportunity. Maybe next trip to Canada? :excited:
#14733352
British is more abstract than English, Scottish, Welsh or Irish, it is a civic identity like the American and Canadian while the rest are ethnic identities.

What's the issue with the hijab, how does that prove that the girl is lying when she says she is proud to serve her nation waving the Greek Cross?
#14733353
Britain is just the polite term for the English empire. It is meaningless as an identity, that is why people find it so easy to integrate into being British, you don't actually have to change at all. :lol:
#14733355
Godstud wrote:Albert's in Canada? Please accept my sincerest apologies. Racists are not accepted, nor encouraged, to exist, in Canada(actually they aren't acceptable ANYWHERE). We must have overlooked one of these miscreants.

Again... sorry.

I'd snuff him out if I had the opportunity. Maybe next trip to Canada? :excited:
Exactly, see you when you actually reside in Canada.

noemon wrote:British is more abstract than English, Scottish, Welsh or Irish, it is a civic identity like the American and Canadian while the rest are ethnic identities.

What's the issue with the hijab, how does that prove that the girl is lying when she says she is proud to serve her nation waving the Greek Cross?
British is a civic identity not a national one, true. Greece is an ethno or nation state, that is what the Greek flag symbolizes. Her parading with flag and claiming to be one with the flag, is mockery. You celebrating this is Swedish.
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