[Agent Steel]

I think that darwinian evolution can explain the question of why women more often choose to go with jerks over nice guys.

Evolution is based upon cutthroat competition and merciless brutality. It more often kills off the kindest, and more often supports the brutest. Take for example the crocodile or the great white shark; these organisms are very effective predators and have remained the same basic form for millions of years. They continue to pass on their genes generation after generation because of their great capacity to kill without mercy.

When a woman sees a savage brute of a man, her evolutionary, biological instincts tell her that this man is more apt to survive in this world, and is thus a better selection for producing offspring that will also survive.

[Tainari88]

I think that darwinian evolution can explain the question of why women more often choose to go with jerks over nice guys.

Evolution is based upon cutthroat competition and merciless brutality. It more often kills off the kindest, and more often supports the brutest. Take for example the crocodile or the great white shark; these organisms are very effective predators and have remained the same basic form for millions of years. They continue to pass on their genes generation after generation because of their great capacity to kill without mercy.

When a woman sees a savage brute of a man, her evolutionary, biological instincts tell her that this man is more apt to survive in this world, and is thus a better selection for producing offspring that will also survive.

This is kind of bullshit in today's world. No, women who choose assholes for husbands or some dominant fool with no social skills is a woman with bad taste. Not much different than men who choose narcissistic women who lie and so on because they focus on her body and not on her character or her brain or her personal qualities. There are people with very bad taste in the opposite sex and it is their choice to deal with a person who has extremely unattractive qualities like being an irresponsible asshole and violent and selfish. If you are a woman with bad taste? Guess what? You get bad taste in the relationship. That is not hard to figure out.

No, choosing a good man should not be about money and prestige, or a power play. True beauty is a man with a kind heart, a strong intelligent mind, and a giving and generous spirit, honest, responsible and sensitive and communicative, etc. Money and power is not important. If the dude works for a living and gets some kind of income through his own efforts? Even if the pay is shit? You can make it all work well. What you can't have is some lying, abusive, disrespectful, sit on this ass all day moocher or a guy who doesn't respect or trust you and is violent or abusive verbally, physically or emotionally.

But women with bad taste go for the asshole. I don't know why. They suck.

[Wellsy]

Humans aren’t so nearly placed in the category of either a tournament species or pair bonding species. In part because there is a sense in which we are both or some groups are more one than the other.

Where tournament species emphasizes low make investment but good genes and have strong sexual dimorphism while pair binding tends to produce less sexual dimorphism as males help in raising kids.

But even this isn’t really sufficient to explain a nasty partner and domestic violence which is better accounted for by social and psychological focuses on attitudes towards women.

I guess you could see a difference in sexual preference when the intention is to choose a partner compared to choosing someone simply to fuck. This dichotomy tends to show itself but even in this women and men can have stronger preferences for one or the other or even switch over time.

Really its better to examine humans kn human terms so while continuity with patterns in the animal kingdom are interesting, one makes a fool of themselves making humans synonymous with another animal as if there is no qualitative distinction ie the discontinuity.

[fuser]

The problem is I doubt any assholes think themselves as assholes, they most likely think of themselves as nice guys.

[ThirdTerm]

Sexual selection by females is the driving force of natural selection. The evolution of certain physical traits in humans and animals is driven by sexual section because the males of these advantageous traits have greater success in obtaining mates. This explains why light-skin and lactose persistence genes spread quickly in European populations in the last 10,000 years because ancient European females picked men with these traits.

[late]

There may be some big message hidden in there.

But what I see is style, or you could call it personal preference.

And here is where you need to parse out dating from mating...

In dating, a lot of women look for vigor and excitement, classic alpha behavior. But when they want a mate, a lot of those same women want someone they can depend on. Alphas tend to be less than stellar at that.

There are also what some call family scripts, a role within the family that influence a lot of behaviors. One sibling is the black sheep, the other is the good one. Thats as old as Cain and Abel.

And a wild card women don't like to admit is arousal. Occasionally, they are just plain ready to rock and some guy is going to get lucky,

[late]

Sexual selection by females is the driving force of natural selection. The evolution of certain physical traits in humans and animals is driven by sexual section because the males of these advantageous traits have greater success in obtaining mates. This explains why light-skin and lactose persistence genes spread quickly in European populations in the last 10,000 years because ancient European females picked men with these traits.

It may also explain why males are getting taller, even when that could easily wind up being a disadvantage.

[Unthinking Majority]

My message to men is to not worry why some women choose a-holes over nice guys. The point is that these women are choosing badly, just like some men choose badly. Any decent man doesn't want a woman who likes assholes anyways, because there's something obviously wrong with these women, and you also don't want this trait to be passed on to your daughter because nobody wants their daughter to date or marry an asshole.

The main thing most women want is a man who is competent and confident and assertive. In other words, somebody who can provide, protect, and defend them and their children if needed. Being a nice guy is important because that means you're probably a good person. But there are many nice guys who are also wimps, which means they're passive and not assertive and not able to properly defend their family from all sorts of non-physical and physical threats we encounter every day, which could be as simple as a salesman trying to rip you off or someone budding in line at the grocery store or somebody talking down to you. Most women don't want a man to cower in the face of these threats.

So in other words, be kind to others, but be able to stand up for yourself and your family. There's such a thing as being "too nice", and women can smell the cowards from a mile away. The women typically attracted to a weak wet noodle man are women who are themselves dominant.

[MistyTiger]

The OP has a misogynist feel to it. Are all women like that? No. If all women were like that, nice guys like Tom Hanks would not be happily married for over 40 years. Hanks is just a sweetheart. Great actor and he seems like a wonderful person.

It is hard to choose a mate. There are no asshole detectors that we can put in our pockets and aim at people's foreheads. Maybe a lot of assholes are good at pretending they are good men.

If some women end up with abusive men, then it was a simple and unintentional mistake. We cannot always be right in our judgments of others. I tend to be a lot more cautious about people. I put everyone on my sketchy/unknown character list for months or longer until I have several concrete examples of their behavior, then I decide if they are bad or decent.

People like to paint ugly pictures of women and disparage them like how after Janet Jackson's wardrobe malfunction at the Superbowl many years ago, she was alienated from events and her reputation and career took a hit. While Justin Timberlake was the rising star and he was relatively untouched by the whole scandal. He only apologized days ago. This attitude is very unfair. He tore her shirt so he should have been held more accountable but he was not.

[Rancid]

The only time women choose jerks over nice guys is probably in high school (because jerks seem more adventurous than regular joes). Even then, that's dubious.

Ultimately, I think the opening premise of the thread is shit.

Shit thread is shit

lightman rule.

[Godstud]

Self-confidence is something women find attractive in men and I think that some women mistake "assholery" to be a form of self-confidence and strength. This can often be attributed to lack of experience, or other things about the man benefiting the woman enough to overlook this. This, of course, goes both ways in a relationship.

Maybe a lot of assholes are good at pretending they are good men.

This happens, too. Many "assholes" put up a false front, at first.

The point is that these women are choosing badly, just like some men choose badly.

QFT. People make mistakes, and then sometimes, due to circumstances, find it difficult to correct them, i.e. Leave the the asshole.

[Odiseizam]

When a woman sees a savage brute of a man, her evolutionary, biological instincts tell her that this man is more apt to survive in this world, and is thus a better selection for producing offspring that will also survive.

this argument is old as plato and stall as spinoza

what actually nowadays could be reason is interactive resonance, tho in real world mostly dance or pickpocketing whatever usually emotions or money are the main reasons, but think the dance meme was as always magnet ... tho the melodies also count the seconds ...

https://youtu.be/mF3IyKkmf50

https://youtu.be/q81VABmZKZw

[Rugoz]

The women typically attracted to a weak wet noodle man are women who are themselves dominant.

Do you mean to say that dominant men are attracted to weak wet noodle women?

[Tainari88]

Humans aren’t so nearly placed in the category of either a tournament species or pair bonding species. In part because there is a sense in which we are both or some groups are more one than the other.

Where tournament species emphasizes low make investment but good genes and have strong sexual dimorphism while pair binding tends to produce less sexual dimorphism as males help in raising kids.

But even this isn’t really sufficient to explain a nasty partner and domestic violence which is better accounted for by social and psychological focuses on attitudes towards women.

I guess you could see a difference in sexual preference when the intention is to choose a partner compared to choosing someone simply to fuck. This dichotomy tends to show itself but even in this women and men can have stronger preferences for one or the other or even switch over time.

Really its better to examine humans kn human terms so while continuity with patterns in the animal kingdom are interesting, one makes a fool of themselves making humans synonymous with another animal as if there is no qualitative distinction ie the discontinuity.

It is 3:26am in the morning in Mexico and I can't sleep. I tried reading. That did not work. I tried watching an older movie on TV that didn't work either. So I decided to read this thread. Wellsy? You are a good man and chose a good woman. That is successful in every way.

It doesn't matter what happens in the future now, because you are a good man.

You can make mistakes galore but you will correct them. The foundation is there.

You are not an asshole. Count yourself lucky.

Good men are kind of difficult to find at every life stage. Most men have issues just like most women have issues.

[Odiseizam]

but think the dance meme was as always magnet ... tho the melodies also count the seconds ...

maybe not always, probably at style crossroads like uk'garage to funk probably it was strange appearence while chasing the grove, the same could be said for the transition from funk to rap or later from rap to rave, so probably in that vacum the dance meme wasnt prime magnetizer

https://youtu.be/A8wvt-HuZ4c

https://youtu.be/mcCK99wHrk0

https://youtu.be/8WBm2XSrRp8

[Robert Urbanek]

want abuse

marilyn manson
accused of abusing
westworld woman

women attracted
to bad boys
complain
bad boys are bad

no surprise
if you join
manson cult

some of them
want to be abused
eurythmics

[Robert Urbanek]

More evidence of the female attraction to bad boys:

Looking like a Mexican Danny DeVito, you may not think El Chapo would have such luck with the ladies – but you'd be wrong. The diminutive narco – real name Joaquin Guzman – is said to have bedded hundreds of women from prostitutes to high-profile politicians and actors, siring many children.

"El Chapo's chicas revealed: The Latin beauties bedded by the drug baron" - Daily Star

[MistyTiger]

More evidence of the female attraction to bad boys:

Looking like a Mexican Danny DeVito, you may not think El Chapo would have such luck with the ladies – but you'd be wrong. The diminutive narco – real name Joaquin Guzman – is said to have bedded hundreds of women from prostitutes to high-profile politicians and actors, siring many children.

"El Chapo's chicas revealed: The Latin beauties bedded by the drug baron" - Daily Star

I sometimes feel attracted to some bad men. I have met 2 in my life. They were magnetic somehow. I looked in their dark eyes and felt ensnared and the air felt electric. Even though I knew they were arrogant, I still felt that animalistic attraction. With one of them, I think we were close to starting something but his buddy walked in at the right time. It was fortunate that I did not make a mistake with that man, I was 18 I think. He was in his 30s. He knew that all the girls liked him and I was unaffected at first, so he was subtly seducing me during class.

Attraction does not always lead to choosing the bad person though. Those two magnetic men have a power over me but I know that I cannot choose them. And they know that they would lose interest. They like to chase. They are playboys.

Good people tend to want to be with other good people. It feels good to be around those who truly understand and appreciate you. The jerks do not value people.

[Drlee]

Some general observations from old age. (Of course.)

FOR THE MEN:

Never whine or even wonder why some women choose bad boys. (We'll get that in a minute.) You are asking this question because some girl you fancy has chosen someone else. Men rarely ask this question when they are in a good relationship with a woman.

So dude. You say the girls go for the motorcycle, tattoos and gruff, dismissive behavior? Well if that is the kind of girl you want then get tattoos, a motorcycle and treat your dates with the bluff and bravado that you are envying right about now. Perhaps you can't or won't do it because you give a shit about the girl who brought this on but, trust me, the bad boy doesn't. There are plenty of ships passing in the night and he is just looking to rub a few barnacles off of his hull anyway.

Another thing dude. You are the smart, caring and sensitive type. You hook up with a bottom feeder and you may get some great sex for awhile but she is going to come off the hook really soon. You are not going to change her and, oh by the way, if you are looking for a girl to rehabilitate you are seriously cruising for a big disappointment. You are not a knight in armor and she is not a lady in a tower. She may be a consultant by day and a biker bitch by night but do you really want to bet the farm which one is a pose? Or worse. Do you really want a woman who would fight you with one tit hanging out in front of the cops?

If you are as smart as you think you are you will go where the girls you want are. And it probably is not a bar. If it is make it a really nice one. One you actually have to dress up for. It is probably a volunteer project, an environmental group or a church. These girls will quickly see who and what you are. If they choose you? You get the brass ring.

Finally guys. Really attractive women know they are really attractive. That means that they can get a date (and a great many men) by snapping their fingers. The fact that they are available at all tells you, without a shadow of a doubt, that they don't want the ones they can get that way. So take your best shot. And that is not a pickup line but rather giving them the opportunity to see you at your best doing important stuff that is important to her too.

FOR WOMEN:

I know why you like the bad boys. They are fucking easy. That is to say they make it easy for you. You don't have to do anything more than look at them and they will take it from there. After all. They want two things. They want to have sex and they want arm candy. In that order. And maybe someday someone to do what they want you to do and have and care for babies. But you don't have to work for them. This bullshit about natural selection is just a way to make yourself look smarter. (And it is an excuse for men to not feel rejected.) But you are really just lazy. Pop a beer, hop on the Harley and blow them every once and awhile and that is all they demand. You can even convince yourself that frantic humping is good sex. Maybe it is for awhile. Sure is for them. It is the most important five minutes of their day.

But the smart, kind and sensitive guys are hard. They care about your feelings and that sucks. Why? Because you have spent a lifetime learning that you should cover those pesky feelings up. So you two are in a Mexican standoff. He doesn't want to lose your respect by behaving like a neanderthal and you are as risk averse as bunny.

And smart guys know what is good for them. They are man enough to hold out for something good. What seems like a lack of romance is exactly the opposite. For them the whole point is to search for romance. They want the "L" word. THEY want the whole banana frankly. Just like you. So you have to work for them. BOTH OF YOU need to put some emotional skin in the game.

Kind and intelligent men don't play fair. When you get in the car or sit down at the restaurant they turn down the radio and want you to talk! The bastards! The easy bad boys plop you on the back of the bike or in the right seat, turn up their favorite metal band and take you to a place where you couldn't talk if the police were shining a light in your eyes. Too easy. And if the bad boy gets away? Well you are not going to spend two weeks locked in your apartment listening to Alanis Morissette albums over that dick.

No you two. If you want the big payoff you have to work for it. It might fall into your lap but don't count on it. So the question is wrong. It should not be "why do women choose assholes over "nice guys". It should be "why do two assholes get together?"

[Godstud]

@Drlee Great post, and pretty much dead on.

I am not liking the biker references though, as I am in an MC and we do that sort of thing. That said, most of the guys have wives and not just girls on the backs of their bikes. The single guys, though, do fit into that mold(as far as relationships go, with a different girl on the bike every few weeks), although we don't put up with actual assholes in our MC.

Maybe the allure of these bad boys is that they aren't expecting anything deeper than a "fling". I know some women also have problems with commitment.

It should be "why do two assholes get together?"

QFT. "Good girls" don't fall for the "Bad boys".

Then again, I have a single friend who tells me that, "Bad girls need loving, too!". He's loving the bad girls until he is ready for a good girl.