Racism is not the cause of black failure - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15235010
When it comes to race relations, we first need a sobering and unbiased view of our system and dilemma.

The problem as I see it is that there seems to be a certain alienation and hostility that black people show towards any sort of intellectual among their community. It seems that to be black and smart somehow signifies a sort of hatred by and for other blacks, as such smart blacks are thought of as white. In the black community I think there exists a subconscious association with white people and everything good, such as being smart or articulate, and thus any black person that shows any sort of potential beyond sports or entertainment is a target of condemnation. Part of the problem I think, is that many gifted black people care about what other black people think, and thereby stunt their own potential and development by identifying with the typical "hood" archetype that is commonly glamorized on television.

Being a young black intellectual in this day and age is not easy in the black community, as you realize that you must go outside of your community in order to simply be yourself.
#15235221
Agent Steel wrote:
When it comes to race relations, we first need a sobering and unbiased view of our system and dilemma.

The problem as I see it is that there seems to be a certain alienation and hostility that black people show towards any sort of intellectual among their community. It seems that to be black and smart somehow signifies a sort of hatred by and for other blacks, as such smart blacks are thought of as white. In the black community I think there exists a subconscious association with white people and everything good, such as being smart or articulate, and thus any black person that shows any sort of potential beyond sports or entertainment is a target of condemnation. Part of the problem I think, is that many gifted black people care about what other black people think, and thereby stunt their own potential and development by identifying with the typical "hood" archetype that is commonly glamorized on television.

Being a young black intellectual in this day and age is not easy in the black community, as you realize that you must go outside of your community in order to simply be yourself.



Don't you think that many people would find this line of yours to be socially inappropriate, and even *racist* -- ?

Why the 'outside', 'external' concern with the social culture of black people? Why the characterization of 'failure', as though there's some grand contest going on, on a racial basis?

I don't think you should appoint yourself to such a position of doing commentary on 'black identity', purportedly.

Your conservative politics leads you into a dogmatically *individualized* line, as though society 'needs' to measure broader social trends by compartmentalizing them into hypothetical 'individuals' from your demographic of choice.
#15235239
There numerous factors with respect to why black people (and other non-whites) remain underprivileged in America at a large scale. Many are out of their control, and of course, many are in their control. Historically, it has been the case that those who are in control of the things that are out of their control will point to, and focus to the things that are in their control. This is what @Agent Steel is doing here. While my personal experience growing up around black people (grew up in a neighborhood with project housing 3 blocks away that were mostly black) agrees with some of what Agent Steel is saying. It does not excuse society at large for the things that are not in their control. For example, a justice system that is less fair and harsher towards blacks/non-white.

Thus, I agree with @ckaihatsu (which is crazy for me to say). @Agent Steel you should focus on what you can do to help, what is in your control. WHich is to advocate for a fairer justice systems. Fairer policing, and fairer application of civil rights. Sure, you are on to something, and sure we should encourage a culture that is less anti-intellectual, but that's not really the sole solution here. IN other words, do not excuse away what you can do to help.

Also note, we also have other particular demographics (whites) that are also quite anti-intellectual as well. See all the MAGA morons. SOme of which are on this forum. Yes, I'm talking about Scamp, Blutosays, and Mike21.
#15235270
Europe is the second-smallest continent. However, its strategic position in relation to Asia and Africa, as well as navigable rivers and fertile soil, have made Europe a dominant economic, social, and cultural force throughout recorded history.

Europe’s physical geography, environment and resources, and human geography can be considered separately.

Europe’s rich agricultural and industrial diversity has made the continent a center of trade and commerce for centuries. It is centrally located between the two other “Old World” continents, Africa and Asia. This tradition of exchange prompted the early and rapid urbanization of the continent, recognizable in many dynamic cities that make up most of Europe.

There was essentially a tv book on this effect to discuss the global problem rather than the specific cases. It is a specific case about american Race Relations where the weaker argument points at the wider European advantage and African disadvantage.

A number of factors influence Africa’s sunny climate. The Equator nearly bisects the continent into two equal parts. Climatic zones lie on either side of this line as if it were a mirror, with tropical wet climates closer to the Equator and more arid conditions closer to the tropics.

This climatic symmetry is disturbed, however, by Africa’s unequal shape. The continent’s narrow southern section is far more influenced by oceanic factors than the bulging northern section. Africa’s northern half is more dry and hot, while its southern end is more humid and cool.

Climate and Agriculture

Climatic factors greatly influence Africa’s agriculture, which is considered the continent’s single most important economic activity. Agriculture employs two-thirds of the continent’s working population and contributes 20 to 60 percent of every country’s gross domestic product (GDP).

I wouldn't be able to find the book. It makes the economic or development equalities fit to the land nad the minerals and the geographic realities of those two groups of peoples.
#15235279
Agent Steel wrote:When it comes to race relations, we first need a sobering and unbiased view of our system and dilemma.

The problem as I see it is that there seems to be a certain alienation and hostility that black people show towards any sort of intellectual among their community. It seems that to be black and smart somehow signifies a sort of hatred by and for other blacks, as such smart blacks are thought of as white. In the black community I think there exists a subconscious association with white people and everything good, such as being smart or articulate, and thus any black person that shows any sort of potential beyond sports or entertainment is a target of condemnation. Part of the problem I think, is that many gifted black people care about what other black people think, and thereby stunt their own potential and development by identifying with the typical "hood" archetype that is commonly glamorized on television.

Being a young black intellectual in this day and age is not easy in the black community, as you realize that you must go outside of your community in order to simply be yourself.

So intellectual blacks go to this soul food restaurant I've never seen? I've never seen any of this junk...

Intellectual blacks are discourage from being intellectual in your post. Neil De Grasse Tyson studies star stuff for nothing for thinking about it which beat out Morgan Freeman's freckles.
#15235280
Mike12 wrote:
tradition of exchange




The backward go forward

All these accounts miss an obvious point. Europe’s very backwardness encouraged people to adopt new ways of wresting a livelihood from elsewhere. Slowly, over many centuries, they began to apply techniques already known in China, India, Egypt, Mesopotamia and southern Spain. There was a corresponding slow but cumulative change in the social relations of society as a whole, just as there had been in Sung China or the Abbasid caliphate. But this time it happened without the enormous dead weight of an old imperial superstructure to smother continued advance. The very backwardness of Europe allowed it to leapfrog over the great empires.

Economic and technical advance was not automatic or unhampered. Again and again old structures hindered, obstructed and sometimes crushed new ways. As elsewhere, there were great revolts which were crushed, and movements which promised a new society and ended up reproducing the old. Fertile areas were turned into barren wastes and prosperous cities ended up as desolate ruins. There were horrific and pointless wars, barbaric torture and mass enslavement. Yet in the end a new organisation of production and society emerged very different to anything before in history.

The first changes were in cultivation. Those who lived off the land during the Dark Ages may have been illiterate, superstitious and ignorant of the wider world. But they knew where their livelihood came from and were prepared, slowly, to embrace new methods of cultivation that enabled them more easily to fill their bellies if they got the chance. In the 6th century a new design of plough, ‘the heavy wheeled plough’ capable of coping with heavy but fertile soil, appeared among the Slav people of eastern Europe and spread westwards over the next 300 years.91 With it came new methods of grazing, which used cattle dung to fertilise the land. Together they allowed a peasant family to increase its crop yield by 50 percent in ‘an agrarian pattern which produced more meat, dairy produce, hides and wool than ever before, but at the same time improved the harvest of grain’.92 One economic historian claims, ‘It proved to be the most productive agrarian method, in relation to manpower, that the world had ever seen’.93

There were still more new techniques in the centuries which followed, such as the adoption of the central Asian method of harnessing horses—which allowed them to replace the much slower oxen in ploughing—and the use of beans and other legumes to replenish the soil. According to the noted French historian of the medieval peasantry, Georges Duby, the cumulative effect of these innovations was to double grain yields by the 12th century.94

Such changes took place slowly. Sylvia Thrupp has suggested that ‘the best medieval rates of general economic growth…would come to perhaps half of one percent’.95 Nevertheless, over 300 or 400 years this amounted to a transformation of economic life.

Such advance depended to a very large extent on the ingenuity of the peasant producers. But it also required something else—that the feudal lords allowed a portion of the surplus to go into agricultural improvement rather than looting it all. The barons were crude and rapacious men. They had acquired and held their land by force. Their wealth depended on direct compulsion rather than buying and selling, and they wasted much of it on luxuries and warfare. But they still lived on their estates; they were not a class of absentee owners like those of late republican Rome or the final years of Abbasid power. Even the most stupid could grasp that they would have no more to live on and fight with if they stole so much from the peasants that next year’s crops were not sown. As the German economic historian Kriedte has pointed out, ‘The lord had to preserve the peasant holding at all costs,’ and ‘therefore…to assist peasants in emergencies which arose from harvest failures and other causes’.96 Providing the peasants with improved ploughs meant a bigger surplus for luxury consumption and warfare, and some lords ‘put farming tools made of iron, especially the ploughs, under their protection’.97 Individual feudal lords organised and financed the clearing of new lands throughout the feudal period. They were the driving force in the spread of the first and, for a long time, the most important form of mechanisation, the water mill.



Harman, _People's History of the World_, pp. 141-143
#15235296
[quote="ckaihatsu"][/quote]
Do you ever consider what the United Kingdom's loyalty to the old order bought it when you look at population density. Little things are fascinating. When William Duke of Normandy took the administration in 1066 of ENgland or the York Lancaster war of the 1400's or the Protestant Reformation I suppose there's still something there about the quaint village and its Duke.
54,415 persons per square miles is the population density in Paris.

POPULATION PER SQUARE MILE
City 2021
Birmingham 9,840
Leeds 3,485
Liverpool 10,085
London 12,443
Inner 25,131
Outer 9,474
Manchester 8,964
Newcastle 6,621
Sheffield 3,776
Average 8,413



Paris has a current population of around 12,292,895 people
Lyon is known as the "Gastronomy Capital of France, and has a population of 2,188,759 people.

Marseille and Aix-en-Provence, located within 19 miles of each other, have a collective population of 1,720,941

Bordeaux is known for its vineyards and wineries, and is a port city situated on the Garonne River in southwestern France. It has a metro population of 1,140,668 people

The following French cities also have sizable populations. Nice is located on the French Riviera with around 1,003,947 people.
#15235310
Mike12 wrote:
Could that video ever even name a creative work of his? He's telling us nothing about nothing then. Well there's a hurdle in a dominant culture type discussion.



You're *disparaging* the guy because he doesn't fit into the title of this thread -- ?


x D
#15235314
Agent Steel wrote:
Being a young black intellectual in this day and age is not easy in the black community


He said this in 6 different ways in 6 different sentences. The Black Community is internally anti-intellectual in a way we are unaware of. I tried to discuss that I don't know that much about soul food or all the anti-intellectual hangouts. Barber shops? And I also mentioned the Neil Degrasse Tyson is in the extreme intellectualist. His occupation produces intellectual capital, as he admits himself, its pondering on stars and such for astrophysicists. All your video will do is make a very boring and typical man who never shared any of his works or interests just blame everyone essentially that his creativity should take off which 99% it shouldn't most the time. In 99% of the time your creativity shouldn't take off with anyone and no one has time for that and he blames 99% of his audience in a bland way, right? I'm not wrong here.
#15235321
Mike12 wrote:
He said this in 6 different ways in 6 different sentences. The Black Community is internally anti-intellectual in a way we are unaware of. I tried to discuss that I don't know that much about soul food or all the anti-intellectual hangouts. Barber shops? And I also mentioned the Neil Degrasse Tyson is in the extreme intellectualist. His occupation produces intellectual capital, as he admits himself, its pondering on stars and such for astrophysicists. All your video will do is make a very boring and typical man who never shared any of his works or interests just blame everyone essentially that his creativity should take off which 99% it shouldn't most the time. In 99% of the time your creativity shouldn't take off with anyone and no one has time for that and he blames 99% of his audience in a bland way, right? I'm not wrong here.



The hegemonic / dominant white-supremacist political culture has tended to 'redline', or *track* BIPOC people into fixed career paths, in a Brave New World kind of way, and that's *after* hundreds of years of institutionalized societal physical oppression (slavery) and legal apartheid (Jim Crow).

Why are you shining such a sharp spotlight? If you want to comment on history don't just finger-wag at an oppressed culture and miscellaneous *individuals*.


[9] culture and critique framework

Spoiler: show
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#15235322
ckaihatsu wrote:The hegemonic / dominant white-supremacist political culture has tended to 'redline', or *track* BIPOC people into fixed career paths, in a Brave New World kind of way, and that's *after* hundreds of years of institutionalized societal physical oppression (slavery) and legal apartheid (Jim Crow).

Why are you shining such a sharp spotlight? If you want to comment on history don't just finger-wag at an oppressed culture and miscellaneous *individuals*.


[9] culture and critique framework

Spoiler: show
Image

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