The hypocrisy of calling people "homophobic" - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15287766
A phobia is described by psychologists as an uncontrollable aversion for something.

The message we hear from the LGBT community is that we ought to tolerate their sexual orientation, as it they did not choose it.

By that same logic, people do not choose their aversions to homosexuals.

It is not consistent to judge and berate a person for being "homophobic", since their phobia is not something they control.

Furthermore, if it is true that a phobia can be unlearned or overcome, then surely it should also be that a homosexual orientation can likewise be unlearned and overcome.
#15287771
I'm going to invoke the spirit of Qatz.

Words, are basically marketing. The words chosen are designed to invoke emotions, or pigeon hole people into false dichotomies. This might be what you are thinking about.

Agent Steel wrote:Furthermore, if it is true that a phobia can be unlearned or overcome, then surely it should also be that a homosexual orientation can likewise be unlearned and overcome.


I'm not sure equating these two is accurate. The first is more to do with how an individual perceives threats. The second is more related to biology and shit like that. Dunno...
#15287797
Rancid wrote:I'm not sure equating these two is accurate. The first is more to do with how an individual perceives threats. The second is more related to biology and shit like that. Dunno...


Nah, they are both related to biology.

We need to dispense with this notion that if you're homophobic there something wrong with you that needs fixed.

To have a biological aversion towards homosexuality is 100% natural and normal, and I'm tired hearing people try to claim otherwise.
#15287813
If you want to be homophobic, that's your prerogative, but you seem to be hung-up about homosexuality somehow which suggests you may be gay yourself and these types of threads are your battle with that.

Otherwise, you can simply be homophobic and keep that to yourself, because most people a) don't give a shit how others think or b) do give a shit and will argue with you about this thing that won't convince either side.

So, in conclusion: it's okay to be gay.
#15287831
Agent Steel wrote:
Nah, they are both related to biology.

We need to dispense with this notion that if you're homophobic there something wrong with you that needs fixed.

To have a biological aversion towards homosexuality is 100% natural and normal, and I'm tired hearing people try to claim otherwise.


Can't say I care enough. We're all called names one way or another I guess.
#15287850
skinster wrote:If you want to be homophobic, that's your prerogative, but you seem to be hung-up about homosexuality somehow which suggests you may be gay yourself and these types of threads are your battle with that.

Otherwise, you can simply be homophobic and keep that to yourself, because most people a) don't give a shit how others think or b) do give a shit and will argue with you about this thing that won't convince either side.

So, in conclusion: it's okay to be gay.


I just don't like LBGT culture being shoved in my face. What they promote is disgusting to me.
#15287852
Agent Steel wrote:A phobia is described by psychologists as an uncontrollable aversion for something.

The message we hear from the LGBT community is that we ought to tolerate their sexual orientation, as it they did not choose it.

By that same logic, people do not choose their aversions to homosexuals.

It is not consistent to judge and berate a person for being "homophobic", since their phobia is not something they control.

Furthermore, if it is true that a phobia can be unlearned or overcome, then surely it should also be that a homosexual orientation can likewise be unlearned and overcome.


This is actually an interesting point and it reminds me of an incident from 5+ years ago where a gay man (who I believe was Jewish) and was in a relationship with a non-white guy ended up calling a black person the n-word during a racial altercation...

His lover came forward and talked about how his boyfriend has OCD, and he has obsessive, intrusive thoughts, and it just so happens that some of these thoughts are racist, and that he consciously fights these intrusive thoughts, and then that day during the argument he was just triggered and lost all sense of personal control as people often do during a fight, hence the regrettable racist language.

Now... That doesn't sound crazy. It does sound like it could be a very convenient excuse, but it also doesn't sound crazy.

It also doesn't sound crazy for someone to say I am just really disgusted by X, Y, or Z and I get really triggered and worked up.

The issue is that this is ideological... It isn't beneficial for either side to say that it has a significant psychological component.

It is also the case that we expect adults to behave in a socially acceptable way, and so if people threw public fits regularly and blamed it on their psychological issues, it would fall on deaf ears...

But what if the soft spoken middle aged woman simply says "Look, I have OCD. I have a lot of intrusive thoughts on this. It also happens that I just don't believe in left wing social justice values... I am not going to ask anyone to change their behavior, but I am going to ask people to be aware that I could get snippy if I am confronted on this, and I'd prefer that anyone who wants to broach the topic with me only do so in good faith, because I can't promise that I won't say some hurtful, petty shit if you get combative with me, OK?"

I think this is sort of a game changing attitude...

Plus

What rancid said, summoning Qatz

Words, are basically marketing. The words chosen are designed to invoke emotions, or pigeon hole people into false dichotomies. This might be what you are thinking about.


That's right.

Even words that can have very legitimate uses, like "racist," or "Communist," can be employed purely for marketing, and nefarious purposes of branding someone as a bigot or an extremist to unfairly strip them of their basic human dignity & rights. :(

And taht is how "homophobe" is often used.

My recommendation is to describe actions or policies as "homophobic," but to be careful describing anyone as such who isn't using bigoted language but simply describing their beliefs on it.

Flaunting the fact that the media consensus agrees with you and and oligarchs have learned that they get a lot more umph these days bombing the world channeling the symbolism of the rainbow flag and not the Christian cross is not pozzi. Not cool!
#15287853
Homophobia is common among old-fashioned folks. There are many of these types in the USA.

A phobia can be untrained. Some therapists use hypnosis. Others believe that a person can push themselves to consciously overcome the phobia.

I used to have a phobia of deep water. Now I can tolerate deep water. I won't always swim in it, but I am not so afraid of it. Scuba diving is on my bucket list.
#15287866
Fasces wrote:Do you consider the little mermaid to be pushing heterosexual relationships in your face @Agent Steel ?


Possibly? But why is that wrong? We're talking about a normal heterosexual relationship vs. an abnormal homosexual relationship. I absolutely think we should encourage children to be straight and not gay.
#15287888
Homosexuality is a normal behaviour of apes. This is very different from Trans. No other apes take hormones or attempt trans sex surgery. However feelings of disgust by heterosexuals of homosexuality are also quite normal. Many homosexuals have feelings of disgust of heterosexuality. Particular in the sphere of religion and spirituality homosexuals have got into positions where they have been able to project their feelings of disgust towards heterosexuality as spiritual and purity.
#15287977
Agent Steel wrote:Can you prove that it isn't?


Yes, by simply looking at prisoners who were jailed for being homosexual. They would simply choose not to be.

Moreover, many women would prefer not to date men, yet they do because they cannot choose to be attracted to women instead.
#15288198
Pants-of-dog wrote:
Yes, by simply looking at prisoners who were jailed for being homosexual. They would simply choose not to be.

Moreover, many women would prefer not to date men, yet they do because they cannot choose to be attracted to women instead.


But how do you explain all the testimonies of people who were once gay but now they are straight? And don't say they are just closeted homosexuals because that's just disrespectful to them. If they tell you they are straight, you should accept it.

Do you think it's right to try to tell someone else what their sexual orientation is?
#15288200
The mainstream media covers up and ignores all the thousands of men and women who have successfully changed from being gay to straight. They keep lying and claiming it's impossible to change or choose one's orientation.

Why do they keep lying about this without proving their case? Why do they just assert that sexual orientation is not a choice without any backup?
#15288202
Agent Steel wrote:But how do you explain all the testimonies of people who were once gay but now they are straight? And don't say they are just closeted homosexuals because that's just disrespectful to them. If they tell you they are straight, you should accept it.


It is called conversion therapy. Conversion therapy is where you use medical tools to convince someone they are not gay or trans. It has very bad results, in terms of patient health. Many countries have banned it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_therapy

Or they simply lie to achieve some other goal, like staying out of jail, or not getting kicked out of their community.

Do you think it's right to try to tell someone else what their sexual orientation is?


No, but that is what homophobic people do. Which is why we get these fake testimonies of sexual orientation being a choice: they are forced to say this by their priest, parents, teachers, or other homophobic person who has some degree of control over their lives.

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