I Reject, I Affirm. ''Raising the Black Flag'' in an Age of Devilry. - Page 7 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14996329
@annatar1914

Since you mentioned the Kali Yuga in TLTE, a concept closely related to your "age of devilry", I watched this presentation on the Yugas:



Interestingly the scholar maintains that some people have the dates of the yugas wrong and that the correct timing shows that the last kali yuga finished in 500 AD*. We are currently in an ascending phase of a new "bronze age" Dwapar yuga. In contrast to yourself he takes the technological and scientific growth of the past thousand years to be a positive sign in alignment with the increasing mental virtue associated with coming out of the kali yuga.

*correction: 500 AD is the lowest point of the last kali yuga and it finished in 1700 AD.
#14996333
SolarCross wrote:@annatar1914

Since you mentioned the Kali Yuga in TLTE, a concept closely related to your "age of devilry", I watched this presentation on the Yugas:



Interestingly the scholar maintains that some people have the dates of the yugas wrong and that the correct timing shows that the last kali yuga finished in 500 AD*. We are currently in an ascending phase of a new "bronze age" Dwapar yuga. In contrast to yourself he takes the technological and scientific growth of the past thousand years to be a positive sign in alignment with the increasing mental virtue associated with coming out of the kali yuga.

*correction: 500 AD is the lowest point of the last kali yuga and it finished in 1700 AD.


It is interesting, thanks for sharing. I myself subscribe to the idea that natural man cannot help but descend into a downward cycle, and that his technological and scientific hubris are a sign of that downward spiral, not a sign of ascent and mental virtue. This video could well be the result of the influence of Western Civilization's Promethean Optimism at work, which leaves no other culture untouched these days.

We (Mankind in the whole world) today are embedded within a Civilization, Spengler's ''Faustian''(Western) Civilization that believes that we are indeed on an ascent, which they hope to be permanent, to break any possible cycle and expand out into the cosmos, ever expanding and ever evolving higher and higher. I suspect however at it's core, there is no longer such a belief in the heart among the Western Elites, but it lumbers on pushing them onwards none the less.

Believe me, the Pagan and Hindu/Vedic/Buddhistic Cycles are more pessimistic in a sense than I ever could be, because being a Christian (Spengler's ''Magian'', along with the other Monotheists) these ages wind up to an End, the Second Coming, where thereafter there shall be no end of the direct Reign of God, where the Kingdom of God lives in all hearts and literally exists in this world forever.

What this video does show inadvertently is that man does not have a universal culture (although the Faustian aspires to it) but is possessed presently of several cultures with competing worldviews. I happen to believe that the worldview i've had all my life happens to be the correct one, and that my position within the Western culture (like that of all true Christians) affords me a certain objective vantage point from which to analyze Western decline dispassionately.

If we are to discuss these matters, I must remind you that in previous conversations with ''Pagans'' (not saying you are of that sort or not) that I believe very literally in the beings they claim to worship, but do not of course worship them or ascribe to their deceits, for deceivers they are. What I have found however, is that most ''pagans'' I have come across do not believe in the existence of the beings they follow, their worldview is more a kind of ''Atheism in drag'' if you will, Nietzsche plus pagan rituals or whatever. I however take paganism seriously at least, just as my Christian forebears would in the early centuries of the Faith.

I would also remind you that I am also quite serious about the ideas expressed at the beginning of this thread, that cosmologically I live in a very different universe than most in the modern age, and therefore do not believe in the standard assumptions of the modern cult of ''science'', either.

Thanks again :) ;)
#14996408
annatar1914 wrote:It is interesting, thanks for sharing. I myself subscribe to the idea that natural man cannot help but descend into a downward cycle, and that his technological and scientific hubris are a sign of that downward spiral, not a sign of ascent and mental virtue. This video could well be the result of the influence of Western Civilization's Promethean Optimism at work, which leaves no other culture untouched these days.

You are welcome.

annatar1914 wrote:We (Mankind in the whole world) today are embedded within a Civilization, Spengler's ''Faustian''(Western) Civilization that believes that we are indeed on an ascent, which they hope to be permanent, to break any possible cycle and expand out into the cosmos, ever expanding and ever evolving higher and higher. I suspect however at it's core, there is no longer such a belief in the heart among the Western Elites, but it lumbers on pushing them onwards none the less.

Does Elon Musk count as a "western elite"? The ascent is conspicuous looking at where we are now and looking back from where we have come though whether we can keep it going or whether some mischance will knock us back down remains as unknowable as the future must be.

annatar1914 wrote:Believe me, the Pagan and Hindu/Vedic/Buddhistic Cycles are more pessimistic in a sense than I ever could be, because being a Christian (Spengler's ''Magian'', along with the other Monotheists) these ages wind up to an End, the Second Coming, where thereafter there shall be no end of the direct Reign of God, where the Kingdom of God lives in all hearts and literally exists in this world forever.

That the cosmos is built on cycles is almost a trivial observation given how ubiquitous they are but that doesn't mean nothing ever ends or that nothing truly new appears. I am not so familiar with Indian cosmologies but in the nordic cosmology the universe does eventually come to a rather gloomy end in the Ragnarok though there are versions of the prophecy that put a rebirth on the end of it. In current science the mainstream cosmology is that the universe will eventually spread out so thin and be so entropic that literally nothing exists or can exist anymore and that is a pretty gloomy end too. On the bright side we can expect to have trillions of years of adventures in the interim.

annatar1914 wrote:What this video does show inadvertently is that man does not have a universal culture (although the Faustian aspires to it) but is possessed presently of several cultures with competing worldviews. I happen to believe that the worldview i've had all my life happens to be the correct one, and that my position within the Western culture (like that of all true Christians) affords me a certain objective vantage point from which to analyze Western decline dispassionately.

I don't know that you are that objective moreover it may be that the "decline of the west" is oversold and anyway like as not the east will carry on where we left off anyway.

annatar1914 wrote:If we are to discuss these matters, I must remind you that in previous conversations with ''Pagans'' (not saying you are of that sort or not) that I believe very literally in the beings they claim to worship, but do not of course worship them or ascribe to their deceits, for deceivers they are. What I have found however, is that most ''pagans'' I have come across do not believe in the existence of the beings they follow, their worldview is more a kind of ''Atheism in drag'' if you will, Nietzsche plus pagan rituals or whatever. I however take paganism seriously at least, just as my Christian forebears would in the early centuries of the Faith.

I doubt it is a majority actually but I am sure there are some like that indeed but I don't think it is necessarily such a disreputable thing. Truly there is not really any such thing as "paganism" because that is a word Christians invented for anything including atheism which was not Christian. People are rebooting the word and usually with a revivalist angle for lost religions but some are less interested in lost beliefs so much as the lost practices and those may be happy to remain atheist, I'm quite okay with that. I won't derail your thread with an exposition on where I am right now in any depth here because it would be a rather long, complicated and contradictory story; but I guess I am a bit of a pantheist with a nordic leaning.

annatar1914 wrote:
I would also remind you that I am also quite serious about the ideas expressed at the beginning of this thread, that cosmologically I live in a very different universe than most in the modern age, and therefore do not believe in the standard assumptions of the modern cult of ''science'', either.

Thanks again :) ;)

Yeah I can see that and I will try to be respectful of that though as you probably appreciate that for me it is quite a stretch. If you will forgive me for saying so it makes me think of our vedic scholar of the yugas and his timeline in which, as it happens, both Christianity and Islam are religions of the Kali Yuga, whether they were the light in the darkness or the darkness itself is not so very obvious.
#14996414
@SolarCross

Thanks for your gracious and thoughtful remarks and replies.

Does Elon Musk count as a "western elite"?


I'd say so, although an outlier in some respects which I needn't go into at this juncture.



The ascent is conspicuous looking at where we are now and looking back from where we have come though whether we can keep it going or whether some mischance will knock us back down remains as unknowable as the future must be.


I trust the teachings and the prophesies, although I'm sure many things will surprise me, and that's not a bad thing.

That the cosmos is built on cycles is almost a trivial observation given how ubiquitous they are but that doesn't mean nothing ever ends or that nothing truly new appears. I am not so familiar with Indian cosmologies but in the nordic cosmology the universe does eventually come to a rather gloomy end in the Ragnarok though there are versions of the prophecy that put a rebirth on the end of it. In current science the mainstream cosmology is that the universe will eventually spread out so thin and be so entropic that literally nothing exists or can exist anymore and that is a pretty gloomy end too. On the bright side we can expect to have trillions of years of adventures in the interim.


Western/Faustian Cosmology and worldview basically comes from the Germanic in origin, modified by the Magian/Christian influences but ultimately mastering them. Of that I'll have more to say, going beyond Spengler and others, so stick around ;) . I happen to have studied Germanic Mythology and legend for decades now, so it'll be a pleasure to talk about a little.


I don't know that you are that objective moreover it may be that the "decline of the west" is oversold and anyway like as not the east will carry on where we left off anyway.


One can look from both ends of a telescope but only one end provides the proper vision. That being said; ''Light comes from the East''.


I doubt it is a majority actually but I am sure there are some like that indeed but I don't think it is necessarily such a disreputable thing. Truly there is not really any such thing as "paganism" because that is a word Christians invented for anything including atheism which was not Christian. People are rebooting the word and usually with a revivalist angle for lost religions but some are less interested in lost beliefs so much as the lost practices and those may be happy to remain atheist, I'm quite okay with that. I won't derail your thread with an exposition on where I am right now in any depth here because it would be a rather long, complicated and contradictory story; but I guess I am a bit of a pantheist with a nordic leaning.


Well, you may be interested to know that I predict a full blown pagan revival in the coming centuries. the ''Why''? of that I'll go into later also.

Yeah I can see that and I will try to be respectful of that though as you probably appreciate that for me it is quite a stretch. If you will forgive me for saying so it makes me think of our vedic scholar of the yugas and his timeline in which, as it happens, both Christianity and Islam are religions of the Kali Yuga, whether they were the light in the darkness or the darkness itself is not so very obvious.


Again, I think we can have a courteous discussion on these matters. :)
#14996469
annatar1914 wrote:Western/Faustian Cosmology and worldview basically comes from the Germanic in origin, modified by the Magian/Christian influences but ultimately mastering them. Of that I'll have more to say, going beyond Spengler and others, so stick around ;) . I happen to have studied Germanic Mythology and legend for decades now, so it'll be a pleasure to talk about a little.

Okay though I think as far as cosmology goes the hellenics contributed rather more than the germanics at least in the early days. After Germanics militarily conqoured Rome and Rome culturally conquored the Germanics there emerges a Hellenic/Germanic fusion though they both fall later to the Christians for centuries. From the renaissance and thereafter that Hellenic/Germanic fusion revives with arguably the Germanics increasingly taking the lead given how often the great scientists are of a Germanic culture. I suppose the Turks are to blame for that for devouring Greece preventing a reflowering of Hellenism for so many centuries.

annatar1914 wrote:Well, you may be interested to know that I predict a full blown pagan revival in the coming centuries. the ''Why''? of that I'll go into later also.

Yes I also see that happening in Europe at least. As to the "why" my perception is that the spell that Christianity held over us for so long broke when they demanded we give up science for their dogma. This was the test of Galileo and Giordano Bruno. Increasingly we are choosing science but science is only half a religion because a religion should be about practice as well as cosmology. There is an element of nostalgia perhaps too but we can look at our old religions from before Christianity and see a practice that suited us but which offers no serious conflict with the cosmology of science. That allows us to have our cake and eat it.

annatar1914 wrote:Again, I think we can have a courteous discussion on these matters. :)

I hope so. :)
#14996558
SolarCross wrote:Okay though I think as far as cosmology goes the hellenics contributed rather more than the germanics at least in the early days. After Germanics militarily conqoured Rome and Rome culturally conquored the Germanics there emerges a Hellenic/Germanic fusion though they both fall later to the Christians for centuries. From the renaissance and thereafter that Hellenic/Germanic fusion revives with arguably the Germanics increasingly taking the lead given how often the great scientists are of a Germanic culture. I suppose the Turks are to blame for that for devouring Greece preventing a reflowering of Hellenism for so many centuries.


Yes I also see that happening in Europe at least. As to the "why" my perception is that the spell that Christianity held over us for so long broke when they demanded we give up science for their dogma. This was the test of Galileo and Giordano Bruno. Increasingly we are choosing science but science is only half a religion because a religion should be about practice as well as cosmology. There is an element of nostalgia perhaps too but we can look at our old religions from before Christianity and see a practice that suited us but which offers no serious conflict with the cosmology of science. That allows us to have our cake and eat it.


I hope so. :)


Well, I'll go into the ''why?'' of it all a little later, set things up, but I'll show quite a different perspective to be sure.
#14996573



I think that I have made many mistakes in political and historical judgement in the past, and this has weighed on my mind for some time. One must be on one side of the divide or the other, one cannot straddle both.

Ob'yem pamyati, pamyat...

Slava Bogu chto tebya nashel Rossiya!
#14998342
@Victoribus Spolia, @SolarCross , @Political Interest;



A Christian can live under any political system, and often has. The Church is the Church, and the Power is the Power. Whether or not It is in Christian hands, if It is not actively treasonous of it's own land and people, it is to be obeyed in all things.... Except Sin, trying to force or encourage sin.

But, Collapse is coming and Barbarism is to be preferred to the Civilization that is corrupting Mankind today, Satanic attempts to erase the very meaning of what it is to be human. But where did it start, these attacks? What foundations did they undermine? I will examine three pillars of a healthy society in the next few posts, relating them to what I have said before;

1. Capitalism

2. Monarchy/Patriarchy

3. Faith

But the rest of this post will cover Capitalism, I welcome questions or comments, insights of a general or specific nature, on this;

Capitalism is the best socio-economic system possible in this fallen world, an ethical Capitalism that abhors luxury and improvidence alike, encourages thrift, sobriety, industriousness, honest and fair dealings, discourages short term thinking and laziness. Yes, the love of Money is the root of all Evil, and the Rich are wicked by definition, but how exactly does Money become Antichrist, and the Wealthy the Partisans of Satan, if what I have said is true, about Capitalism being the best possible system?

Next post I'll tackle that.
#14999280
annatar1914 wrote:@Victoribus Spolia, @SolarCross , @Political Interest;



A Christian can live under any political system, and often has. The Church is the Church, and the Power is the Power. Whether or not It is in Christian hands, if It is not actively treasonous of it's own land and people, it is to be obeyed in all things.... Except Sin, trying to force or encourage sin.

But, Collapse is coming and Barbarism is to be preferred to the Civilization that is corrupting Mankind today, Satanic attempts to erase the very meaning of what it is to be human. But where did it start, these attacks? What foundations did they undermine? I will examine three pillars of a healthy society in the next few posts, relating them to what I have said before;

1. Capitalism

2. Monarchy/Patriarchy

3. Faith

But the rest of this post will cover Capitalism, I welcome questions or comments, insights of a general or specific nature, on this;

Capitalism is the best socio-economic system possible in this fallen world, an ethical Capitalism that abhors luxury and improvidence alike, encourages thrift, sobriety, industriousness, honest and fair dealings, discourages short term thinking and laziness. Yes, the love of Money is the root of all Evil, and the Rich are wicked by definition, but how exactly does Money become Antichrist, and the Wealthy the Partisans of Satan, if what I have said is true, about Capitalism being the best possible system?

Next post I'll tackle that.



As promised, I'm looking at Capitalism. IF the free market is the only possible system of exchange that will work given fallen human nature, it still behooves those of us who fight for Equity and Justice to expect the Social outcome to still resemble the desired outcome of Socialism.

Doesn't seem very ''pro-capitalistic'', does it? Make of it what one will, call it what you will,because the primary aim of a good and truly Christian society is still Justice and Equity, not the love of and pursuit of money.

Heavily taxed, not allowed to advertise in the modern sense, and regulated as to financial speculation and prevention of Usury...

Guess a Marxist would still call me as being within at the very least what Engels referred to as ''Right Wing Socialism''.
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