[telluro]

In pagan polytheism, the gods are local and limited powers, and in that context, prayer makes sense. In prayer, one is asking for a certain power, limited but superior to human power, to help in one's cause. Prayer makes sense for pagans precisely because the gods are limited, because they do not know everything and because they might not always be benevolent to one's cause.

In Judaic and Christian monotheism however, God isn't merely limitless, he is also not-a-being in the sense that we might understand all other beings. He is the Ground of All Being. If a cause exists that can be aided justifiably in the eyes of God, what is the aim of prayer? God already knows of it, since He is omniscient, so prayer does not have the aim of making God aware of it. God is the perfect measure of all that is good and evil, so prayer also has not the aim of convincing God that one's cause is good or better than another. In other words, prayer can add nothing more to the justification of a cause in the eyes of God.

I am not referring to prayer in the sense of "worship" or "adoration", but merely in the sense of asking for something, from a blessing to moral strength to material goods. Isn't this form of prayer ultimately a pagan remnant, just as there are pagan remnants of conceiving God/god as a local, limited and national power in Judaism and the Old Testament?

[Dan]

God will have mercy on His children when they pray for it. At Abraham's request, He was willing to forgo destroying Sodom if there were 10 righteous people (there were not). When God was set to destroy Israel for idolatry, he did not at Moses pleading.

One requests in prayer to align your will to God's, to open yourself up to God's will, trusting that He will do what is best for His child and requesting of your own will that God's will be done in your life.

It's not about convincing God, it's about willingly surrendering your will to God's so that God will grant mercy.

[telluro]

A valid answer. Thanks.

Why do Christians emphasize free will when God asks for a complete surrender of that will?

[DanDaMan]

Why do Christians emphasize free will when God asks for a complete surrender of that will?

You can have only one true God.
Surrendering to the will of others opens the door to the loss of God.

History seems to prove that right.

[Lightman]

I'm inclined to agree that prayer, in the sense of requesting things from God, makes little sense. When I "pray", I thank God, I do not ask things from God. If God is going to help me, God will help me. If God is not, God will not. Being able to experience existence is sufficient a gift from God.

[Odiseizam]

Why do Christians emphasize free will when God asks for a complete surrender of that will?

it wouldnt be Free Will if there wasnt choice, we can and we need from soteriological perspective to align ourselves with the Higher Realms of existence, but we are not forced on that but asked if we like, as Souls we have fell from Higher Ground and unlike angels as beings we got second chance to redeem ourselves but again if we like to ...

here are few explanations that are worth to be considered ...

Abba Pimen said: 'Our own will is like a wall of brass between us and God, preventing us from coming near to Him or contemplating His mercy.'
http://orthodoxinfo.com/praxis/willofgod.aspx





There are three wills in the world: God's will, Satan's will, and man's will. Just as man is dependent upon God or Satan for his spiritual life, they are the two preeminent spiritual forces, his will must be in harmony with God or Satan. Matthew 6:24 says, "No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other." Jesus gives the New Testament explanation of this. Man in the garden sought his own will. He refused God's will in seeking his own will and became in bondage to Satan's will. The life of man began created in God's image, but now he finds himself spiritually dead and separate from God.
http://www.lightinside.org/light/reign.htm



tho we were deceived, and we are still by our free will prone to deceiving life



The Apostle Paul says (to the Romans) that all living creatures are suffering and wailing in wait for the revelation of the sons of god because the creation was subjected to frustration not by its own choice but by the will of the one who subjected it (Romans 8:19-22). [1]
http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/evolution_kuraev.htm

the beauty in the Free Will Gift (that is next to the Gift Of Love and Hope) is so great that no eartly ism can reverse it, we are now inbetween the Eternal Joy and eternal damnation living in world tied by causality in same time with dual choice, and is to us alone to chose whether we will strive upwards or loosen ourselves and fell further! with conscious effort we can rise above our delusions for seeking heaven on earth through lusts, and as Souls we are facing three levels of obstacles lusts greed and pride i.e. hedonism materialism and egoism, its so simple we need just to despise idolizing them, yes we need them in some extent but balanced one enough so we can endure the temptation to see this life as now-or-never, and for this there is the need for spiritual awakening what could be achieved by contemplating about Higher Realms of existence for what we already have help in form of direction from our ancestors who through their ascetic scarce lifestyle were more open for knowledge from above ...

... they were not at all naive but way more aware that us today indulged in the triviality of the meaningless modern abundance, when even those who strive for Salvation are stumbling on the tempting noise from the comformism and individualism, as we are too loosen for higher feats and life in peace through humbleness and frugality, seeking mostly joy in possessive than sharing manner, eg. many even do Christians they will not live in communia and praising Our Lord through Liturgical Togetherness but retreating in own prayerful solace way, what for city people is dangerous making them strange if not scare, although there where anyhow the spirit of this world has entered in the Church - in any form of modern vibes - this retreat by many is maybe understandable, but I cant grasp how that is becoming trend nowadays even in Orthodox Christianity where the services rests on the Christian Classicism from the early times that reached full standardization in the byzantine realm ...

... I am offering this last example just so I can point that per-se Free Will is not enough People to step on the path of Salvation, but they need to fence themselves with Grace what is most quickly achievable through Holy Inchurched Life using all the Holy Mysteries of the Church along the Praising, in this respect the individual Prayer is used so we can keep the focus as more as possible upwards, while think its enough for layman to be substituted with good deeds i.e. those who dont have means to help others anyhow They should do that with Prayers, having Christocentric mindset to live and work for the common good ... but when the modern secular educational system along the liberal capitalism is shaping the souls of kids from the early age to be competitive and profitable on top of that later drawn to indebt life as consumeristic glitch, so as grownup they are almost like soulful invalids, usually waiting to robe someone energetically instead pump in energy through nature creativity unity and most of all singing what is the eternal emanation of divinity of the soul, it is said the Angels live also for that Praising The Almighty Lord constantly, and we as their younger siblings we should imitate them if we want in this casual world by the principle of action reaction to Praise also so we could gather more Grace and thus like that live life in foulness even do we are not wealthy or gifted or special or exceptional and from all that are it would be asked greater feat in their life so they can become compatible with Higher Realms where earthly filthiness cant survive or thrive, and that why we need directions and cleansing thats why Christianity became religion and use the Liturgies for faster way of cleaning of the soul when is loathed coz filth or spiritual growing when is already cleaned ...

[Godstud]

Gods. Plural.



Prayer does little unless your god is paying attention and is actually going to do something about it. Whether a god ever actually helps or not is up for debate.

Then you have to wonder if someone is praying against you. i.e. "God help us win this game!".


Free will = Myth. You can't have Free Will if a god is omniscient. The god made you knows if you will or will not. You are therefore predetermined to fail or succeed. The illusion of free will is what you really have.

[Odiseizam]

@Godstud hm, simply Free Will would be myth if You cant choose in this world anything, knowing that You can and knowing that Almighty Lord is the creator of this world then its logically to assume that we have Free Will, on other hand if we were predetermined then we couldnt think by ourselves as we like even less having choice to accept freely what we like ...

what is funny in Your example is exactly people tend to see on this world as place where they need to enjoy i.e. seeking heaven on earth, what by all means for Christians would be wrong, thus asking in Prayers some kind of gain is wrong, we are here because chance to evolve in more aware spiritual beings and if we ask something that is Awakening so we can endure the world hardship what is achieved by the virtue of Patience and Endurance what leads to Peace and like that walking on the path of Salvation, not that we cant ask for something that we need but trivial stuff or negative passions that is wrong and would not be answered because that is not good for our Soul, yet people are misusing the Prayer for that too and that is wrong, but who are we to judge its their Free Will tho we can warn them not to waste their time ...

when Prayer is in question, what is more interesting is that we can ask for mediation through Spiritual Father or Elder Monk or Patron Saint if we are not enough focused so we can Pray more focused or we are not on such spiritual level so we can be worthy for extra Grace, but again because Salvation and not worldly pleasures, yet people tend to behave recklessly so they are finding all kind of ecusses so they temp to ask through prayers even evil things, what by all means will backfire on them like that ...

about gods dont get what You are referring too?

[Verv]

I am glad that the OP acknowledges that prayer can be more than asking for something, because it ought to be understood as that.

One of the issues with a discussion of this nature is that we quickly get into a question of how does the world even work? Most traditional Christians are occasionalists, meaning that they believe God's hand is in everything that is occurring. From such an understanding, a Christian will literally ascribe the bad things that happen to them in daily life as being relevant to their spiritual status. Thus there are Christians that believe that their prayers are constantly affecting the world around them.

Judging by this quotation, @telluro ...

If a cause exists that can be aided justifiably in the eyes of God, what is the aim of prayer? God already knows of it, since He is omniscient, so prayer does not have the aim of making God aware of it. God is the perfect measure of all that is good and evil, so prayer also has not the aim of convincing God that one's cause is good or better than another. In other words, prayer can add nothing more to the justification of a cause in the eyes of God.

you are misunderstanding the full purpose of prayer. God is never made aware of a thing, nor is He ever convinced of a thing by the supplications of people, as you say, but prayer is a necessary duty of Christians for our own salvation and for the bringing of grace into the world.

Prayer is also what vindicates other things, imbuing things with the grace that they need for each occasion.

We pray when we are dying to bless our actions as a dying person and to seek to justify ourselves, and pray for everyone that is surrounded in the event. We may even pray to survive... but the ultimate prayer is thy will be done.

Prayer is what infuses everything with grace, which makes everything we suffer possible to be healing and not just painful.

[ness31]

My life is lived as one enduring prayer. I know it’s not what we’re taught, but I really don’t see the need to itemize my thoughts into prayers.

[GandalfTheGrey]

For me I see prayer as a kind of test of our faith - that we are remembering and hoping for the right things.

For example, praying for a dying relative isn't about hoping you can convince God to make them better or whatever, rather it serves to remind yourself the love you have for that person and the importance of thinking, caring and loving others.

A good rule of thumb for prayer is not to pray for a particular outcome "I pray I will succeed this exam", "I pray uncle Ernest will survive his operation" etc - but rather pray abstractly for the "best" outcome - whatever that may be (and which is something we cannot know, only God knows). It may be you will fail the exam, but you will learn something valuable that you may not have learnt if you passed - thus being a "better" outcome overall. And again, such prayers are not about asking God to make "the best" outcome happen, but rather help yourself understand the importance of a) remembering what is important to remember and b) telling yourself that God will provide the best outcome for those who have faith