[abu_rashid]

What a load of bullshit. You have nothing to back up this nonsense.

Not that I haven't posted this here before, but anyway here it is again.

"The torture and slaughter of Iraqi civilians is reaching unprecedented heights with estimates of up to 655,000 dead. Night after night death squads rampage through Iraq's main cities. In Baghdad, up to a hundred bodies a day are dumped on the streets. Often they've been tortured with electric drills. Yet those doing the killing have little to do with al Qaeda or Sunni insurgents. The majority of the killings are carried out by Shia death squads who want to turn Iraq into a Shia state aligned to Iran."

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/dispatch ... th-squads/

You think ISIS isn't brutal and murdering?

On the contrary I've stated time and time again here that they are. You just seem to have a problem actually listening to the other side in a discussion.

[Zamuel]

What a load of bullshit. You have nothing to back up this nonsense.

Not that I haven't posted this here before, but anyway here it is again.

"The torture and slaughter of Iraqi civilians is reaching unprecedented heights with estimates of up to 655,000 dead. Night after night death squads rampage through Iraq's main cities. In Baghdad, up to a hundred bodies a day are dumped on the streets. Often they've been tortured with electric drills. Yet those doing the killing have little to do with al Qaeda or Sunni insurgents. The majority of the killings are carried out by Shia death squads who want to turn Iraq into a Shia state aligned to Iran."

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/dispatches-the-death-squads/

You think ISIS isn't brutal and murdering?

On the contrary I've stated time and time again here that they are. You just seem to have a problem actually listening to the other side in a discussion.

First time I've noticed this link in your posts. It seems very credible and doesn't really surprise me. I'm sure it's not limited to Baghdad. I'd recommend anyone seriously trying to comprehend "WHY ISIS" watch it. ISIS is the only real viable alternative a lot of Iraqi Sunni have. If extremism is the price they have to pay for it? most have no other option. Personally I believe the reality of Shia instigated genocide is a partial explanation for US policy. It doesn't make ISIS the "good guys" or justify their atrocities, but it explains a lot.

Zam

[abu_rashid]

First time I've noticed this link in your posts.

Well prior to the past week I don't think I've ever seen you posting in the same threads as me.

Here's a post where I linked to it:

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=157113&start=3420

It seems very credible and doesn't really surprise me. I'm sure it's not limited to Baghdad. I'd recommend anyone seriously trying to comprehend "WHY ISIS" watch it. ISIS is the only real viable alternative a lot of Iraqi Sunni have.

Sadly peple like Godstud are not at all interested in asking why anything. Their only interest is in vindicating their hatred for Islam, and for them the existence of IS, for whatever reason, does that.

If extremism is the price they have to pay for it? most have no other option. Personally I believe the reality of Shia instigated genocide is a partial explanation for US policy. It doesn't make ISIS the "good guys" or justify their atrocities, but it explains a lot.

Most definitely not a justification, merely some context.

You cannot treat something by misdiagnosing its cause.

[Godstud]

You explanation is just more Islamic cunts shooting people for their religion. How is that an explanation? You're trying to blame the US because Islamic nutjobs took over when they left and are killing people and the only people fighting them are more Islamic crackpots who are even MORE murderous. Your very argument just shows what a bunch of fuckups the Muslims in the ME are.

In short, ISIS is killing people because they are fighting the people who want to set up a caliphate because they want to set up a caliphate that is different from the one they want to set up.

[Zamuel]

Sadly people - are not at all interested in asking why anything.

We all have our limitations and personal delusions. Extending those limitations and discovering those delusions is a purpose served by PoFo. Even the most idiotic and stubborn person can not help but learn when they are exposed to new ideas and different viewpoints.

Their only interest is in vindicating their hatred for Islam, and for them the existence of IS, for whatever reason, does that.

Yes ... Just as others hate Jews, or Americans ... Tolerance is not a lesson that comes easy for some people.

If extremism is the price they have to pay for it? most have no other option. Personally I believe the reality of Shia instigated genocide is a partial explanation for US policy. It doesn't make ISIS the "good guys" or justify their atrocities, but it explains a lot.

Most definitely not a justification, merely some context. You cannot treat something by misdiagnosing its cause.

And I think the present US policy reflects that. The displacement of Saddam Hussein was a significant mistake, in the short term. Only the unknown future can reveal what it's long term significance will be. ISIS is a definite result of that displacement. The ONLY positive conclusion that can be envisioned to the present situation involves the creation of a Sunni Protectorate in western Iraq (+NW Syria). I believe that's apparent to anyone who can look past the sectarian and religious rivalries. I think that is the present goal of the western powers ... it won't happen soon, but movement in that direction must be encouraged.

Zam

[abu_rashid]

Even the most idiotic and stubborn person can not help but learn when they are exposed to new ideas and different viewpoints.

I wish I shared your optimism.

Yes ... Just as others hate Jews, or Americans ...

Not sure if this is directed at me, but I'll present my position anyway, I hold no hatred for either Jews nor Americans. I oppose US & Zionist policies, and I do indeed hate the people that call for them, but I most certainly do not hate anyone just because they happen to be Jew or an American. It would never cause me to deal with them unjustly or rudely though, but then again some people have principles.

And I think the present US policy reflects that.

U.S policy is purely about managing the situation (whatever that may now be). I honestly don't think they realise their "mistakes".

The displacement of Saddam Hussein was a significant mistake, in the short term.

This feeds into my point above. The only reason proponents of U.S foreign policy will admit the 2003 invasion was a mistake is because now it's more out of control. It's never about recognising the absolute chaos they've inflicted upon the lives of countless millions of innocent Iraqis, it's always about how we can better get the upper hand in the situation.

ISIS is a definite result of that displacement.

IS is, I am afraid, a pandora's box, it cannot now be closed. And it's unfortunate because Muslims who wanted an Islamic state did not want it to be brutal like IS are, but the U.S has in a sense forced it into that direction, so that only the most brutal can rise to the top. Perhaps intentionally I'm not sure, but either way they've forced it to that extent.

The ONLY positive conclusion that can be envisioned to the present situation involves the creation of a Sunni Protectorate in western Iraq (+NW Syria). I believe that's apparent to anyone who can look past the sectarian and religious rivalries. I think that is the present goal of the western powers ... it won't happen soon, but movement in that direction must be encouraged.

I highly doubt such a circumstance will arise. The Ahl as-sunnah are not people who can simply be herded around and directed so easily. But this does seem to be again the same thing mentioned above, an attempt to "manage" the Muslims for the West's purposes. i.e. same mistake all over again.

[Zamuel]

Even the most idiotic and stubborn person can not help but learn when they are exposed to new ideas and different viewpoints.

I wish I shared your optimism.

It's not optimism. Learning is a basic human trait. Scientifically proven (even if they do use chimps to demonstrate it.)

Yes ... Just as others hate Jews, or Americans ...

Not sure if this is directed at me

it's not directed at anyone in particular, just another observable phenomenoa.

I'll present my position anyway, I hold no hatred for either Jews nor Americans. I oppose US & Zionist policies

as a matter of Self Interest ... ? Grievance... ? Idealism ? ?

and I do indeed hate the people that call for them

can't find it in your heart to tolerate their mistaken ignorance?

The displacement of Saddam Hussein was a significant mistake, in the short term.

This feeds into my point above. The only reason proponents of U.S foreign policy will admit the 2003 invasion was a mistake is because now it's more out of control. It's never about recognising the absolute chaos they've inflicted upon the lives of countless millions of innocent Iraqis, it's always about how we can better get the upper hand in the situation.

This was certainly true under W. Bush. Obama inherited that and struggled with it ... At this point, I think there is a different intent and certainly a VERY different manifestation of US power.

ISIS is a definite result of that displacement.

IS is, I am afraid, a pandora's box, it cannot now be closed. And it's unfortunate because Muslims who wanted an Islamic state did not want it to be brutal like IS are, but the U.S has in a sense forced it into that direction so that only the most brutal can rise to the top. Perhaps intentionally I'm not sure, but either way they've forced it to that extent.

I would say they have allowed it, some particular elements may have encouraged it (CIA). But it's a natural consequence of the chaos, not a planned agenda that was "forced" on anybody. As you point out, Muslims are not easily herded.

The ONLY positive conclusion that can be envisioned to the present situation involves the creation of a Sunni Protectorate in western Iraq (+NW Syria). I believe that's apparent to anyone who can look past the sectarian and religious rivalries. I think that is the present goal of the western powers ... it won't happen soon, but movement in that direction must be encouraged.

I highly doubt such a circumstance will arise. The Ahl as-sunnah are not people who can simply be herded around and directed so easily.

No, they're not, neither are the Shia... One of Bush/Chaney's BIGGEST mistakes was thinking that they could do that. They are however reasonable people who prefer peace over war. When those desires manifest, it is the duty of the west to encourage and help. We are waiting.

But this does seem to be again the same thing mentioned above, an attempt to "manage" the Muslims for the West's purposes. i.e. same mistake all over again.

I think Obama, and like minded leaders in the west know better than to perpetuate the Bush/Chaney mistake. The will to peace will have to arise from within Muslim ranks, helping it and encouraging it is NOT manipulation. The enemies of peace may call it that to serve their own ends, but that's a very transparent veil.

Zam

[abu_rashid]

Just some advice, don't be scared of vertical white space. Would make your posts so much easier to read and respond to.

as a matter of Self Interest ... ? Grievance... ? Idealism ? ?

Because I believe it makes the world a very horrible place to live for a lot of people. It causes misery to untold millions.

can't find it in your heart to tolerate their mistaken ignorance?

If it didn't have the ramifications mentioned above, it might be a tolerable ignorance, but given what it results in, no, I have no tolerance for it.

This was certainly true under W. Bush. Obama inherited that and struggled with it ... At this point, I think there is a different intent and certainly a VERY different manifestation of US power.

So we're told. Fact is more drone strikes have been ordered by Obama than were ever ordered by Dubya, Guantanamo is still open (another innocent man is in the process of being finally released right now, after a good chunk of his life was stolen from him), the interventions in the Middle East have continued. I personally don't see the difference, it's like they just put a black man in there to try and make people think he was part of the oppressed rather than the oppressor. Same crap different face.

I would say they have allowed it, some particular elements may have encouraged it (CIA). But it's a natural consequence of the chaos, not a planned agenda that was "forced" on anybody. As you point out, Muslims are not easily herded.

I didn't mean they actually trained and founded IS, I mean their harshness caused the harsher elements of the Islamists to rise to the surface in response. It's a very different take on things.

No, they're not, neither are the Shia... One of Bush/Chaney's BIGGEST mistakes was thinking that they could do that. They are however reasonable people who prefer peace over war. When those desires manifest, it is the duty of the west to encourage and help. We are waiting.

Seems you're still oblivious to the fact that the West's meddling is the cause of all this chaos. Whether it's direct invasions/occupations or simple "encouraging and helping" those who they think serve their interests best, it's all meddling and it only leads to a world of pain for the people there and eventually for the people in the West. The West needs to stop meddling, simple.

I think Obama, and like minded leaders in the west know better than to perpetuate the Bush/Chaney mistake. The will to peace will have to arise from within Muslim ranks, helping it and encouraging it is NOT manipulation. The enemies of peace may call it that to serve their own ends, but that's a very transparent veil.

And yet the West's leaders are currently involved in bombing campaigns over Iraq & Syria and are meeting to decide their next move in their joint strategy for how best to manage Syria. As I said, they never learn. The sad thing is that each time it happens it just becomes worse and worse, even though they promise they're making it better and better, and the useful idiots of the world just nod and agree. Time to stop being useful idiots.

[Zamuel]

Just some advice, don't be scared of vertical white space. Would make your posts so much easier to read and respond to.

Yeah, Ok, I'm just a naturally economic person ...

Because I believe it (Zionist Policies) makes the world a very horrible place to live for a lot of people. It causes misery to untold millions.

Ok, but it doesn't do this by itself. Muslin Intolerance perpetuates that misery ... once again 2 wrongs will not make a right. Unrealistic demands based on long past mistakes resolve nothing. If Muslim intransigence blocks progress, what is left but to repeat the past?

Guantanamo is still open (another innocent man is in the process of being finally released right now, after a good chunk of his life was stolen from him)

True, but no-one cut his head off or burned him alive. The American system failed to prevent this injustice but is correcting it. Can you say the same for the Muslims system?)

I personally don't see the difference, it's like they just put a black man in there to try and make people think he was part of the oppressed rather than the oppressor. Same crap different face.

Well, there sure aren't as many Americans in Humvees running around Iraq these days. And the terrorist do seem to be keeping their heads down and staying inside a lot. I won't kid you that America is not acting in it's own best interest, of course we are ... Anyone who expects that to change as NUTS as those who think Israel is going to cease to exist. If that means Assad stepping down in Syria ... We can probably accommodate that, If it means establishing a protectorate where Sunnis can live free from fear of Shia death squads, we can accommodate that. But we're on a two way street here, we need some accommodation too. "Death to America" ain't gonna cut it ... Does this seem so unreasonable ?

I didn't mean they actually trained and founded IS, I mean their harshness caused the harsher elements of the Islamists to rise to the surface in response. It's a very different take on things.

Here you loose me ... What harshness? Americans took no part in repressing Sunnis ... The only people we have treated "Harshly" are terrorists and extremists. And again, if we were harsh, we still weren't cutting heads off and burning people alive. No doubt innocents have suffered ... but honestly, the safeguards practiced by the American military are extensive and -usually- effective.

Seems you're still oblivious to the fact that the West's meddling is the cause of all this chaos.

I agree, the partition of Palestine was inexcusable. But it's now history, and Israel is a reality.

The West needs to stop meddling, simple.

No, not simple ... We even begin to slow down our involvement and EVRYONE starts screaming about how we are shirking our responsibility, then opportunists like Russia and China start moving in ... And once they get rolling Muslims will be screaming for our help again. Ruski Xopowo, learn that phrase ... it may help.

Zam

[abu_rashid]

Yeah, Ok, I'm just a naturally economic person ...

Thanks, a lot less painful to dissect

Ok, but it doesn't do this by itself. Muslin Intolerance perpetuates that misery ...

I was speaking about more than just Zionist policies. It's not just the Zionist imposition it's all the impositions. There's barely a side from which the Muslims are not under assault.

once again 2 wrongs will not make a right.

How exactly were Palestinians ever wrong? For not letting someone mass illegally immigrate into their country to saturate their population and force them out into refugee camps? Was this their "wrong"?

Unrealistic demands based on long past mistakes resolve nothing. If Muslim intransigence blocks progress, what is left but to repeat the past?

But it's not just the past, it exists right now, as we speak, Palestinians everywhere are continually suffering the Zionist imposition.

True, but no-one cut his head off or burned him alive. The American system failed to prevent this injustice but is correcting it. Can you say the same for the Muslims system?)

Plenty have died or been permanently maimed from the U.S's torture.

Well, there sure aren't as many Americans in Humvees running around Iraq these days. And the terrorist do seem to be keeping their heads down and staying inside a lot.

They couldn't maintain it forever. And the "terrorists" now control about half the country, doesn't sound like they're keeping their heads down at all, unless of course you mean putting their heads down and getting to work taking over the country?

I won't kid you that America is not acting in it's own best interest, of course we are ...

And I don't expect her to act out of altruism. What I do expect though is that she be honest with her people and tell them what the real cost of their endeavours in other peoples' homes are.

Anyone who expects that to change as NUTS as those who think Israel is going to cease to exist.

Or as nuts as anyone who thought the Crusader state would come to an end after 99 years of rule over Jerusalem. The Zionist entity is like an oil rig in the middle of the ocean. Yes it stands, but as soon as it stops being maintained from the shores, it will begin to be swept away by the oceans that surround it. The Zionists are surrounded by an ocean of Arabs and beyond them an ocean of Muslims, they cannot survive without external maintenance, and that will one day be too costly to continue.

If that means Assad stepping down in Syria ... We can probably accommodate that, If it means establishing a protectorate where Sunnis can live free from fear of Shia death squads, we can accommodate that. But we're on a two way street here, we need some accommodation too. "Death to America" ain't gonna cut it ... Does this seem so unreasonable ?

The US doesn't actually want Assad to step down, this is abundantly clear, despite the rhetoric. Anyway we are certainly capable of bringing him down, so please keep out. Neither do we want any protectorates, thanks, but no thanks.

Here you loose me ... What harshness? Americans took no part in repressing Sunnis ... The only people we have treated "Harshly" are terrorists and extremists.

Roughly 100 of IS's top leadership were all interned in U.S torture camps. Prior to the U.S invasion there was no Islamist movement really in Iraq, the country was fairly secular. Even Baghdadi was himself a small time Qur'an teacher in his local mosque before the U.S arrived, the treatment the people suffered is what pushed them to where they are today. If you can't see that you are living in a fantasy land.

And again, if we were harsh, we still weren't cutting heads off and burning people alive.

Try telling that to the *1* single surviving member of Abeer al-Janabi's family. She was raped and her entire family burned alive with her, and it was blamed on so called Sunni insurgents, luckily the truth came out and we found out which monsters actually committed this horrific crime. I'm guessing Abu Ghraib is not in your memory either? Camp Bucca etc.

No doubt innocents have suffered ... but honestly, the safeguards practiced by the American military are extensive and -usually- effective.

Yes very effective.

No, not simple ... We even begin to slow down our involvement and EVRYONE starts screaming about how we are shirking our responsibility,

This is what you use to convince yourselves that you need to invade other people's countries, I assure you it's not the case.

then opportunists like Russia and China start moving in ... And once they get rolling Muslims will be screaming for our help again. Ruski Xopowo, learn that phrase ... it may help.

Let them try.

[Zamuel]

Ok, but it doesn't do this by itself. Muslin Intolerance perpetuates that misery ...

I was speaking about more than just Zionist policies. It's not just the Zionist imposition it's all the impositions. There's barely a side from which the Muslims are not under assault.

None of which changes the point that Muslim intolerance is as much to blame as anyone else. I'm sure you can rationalize responses on a point by point basis to refute whatever suits you ... and some of them will even be significantly correct. But doing so is essentially a waste of time, I don't think you require such extensive self justification ...? All it accomplish is the perpetuation of an unproductive influence. What great Muslim thinkers have said "look not to the past, look to the future.

once again 2 wrongs will not make a right.

How exactly were Palestinians ever wrong?

They adopted Violence and Confrontation. Claiming nothing but their own fear as a justifiable provocation.

Unrealistic demands based on long past mistakes resolve nothing. If Muslim intransigence blocks progress, what is left but to repeat the past?

But it's not just the past, it exists right now, as we speak, Palestinians everywhere are continually suffering the Zionist imposition.

Yep, they will accept nothing but repetition of past mistakes from "enemies" who would instead like to be their friends.

True, but no-one cut his head off or burned him alive. The American system failed to prevent this injustice but is correcting it. Can you say the same for the Muslims system?)

Plenty have died or been permanently maimed from the U.S's torture.

That's a dodge, not a reply ... The individual you referred to was treated humanely, especially when compared to the practices of Shia Death Squads and ISIS Executioners. If he was innocent? Steps have been taken to compensate him ... The mistake wasn't aggravated by shooting him in the head and stuffing down a dry well to hide the mistake.

And the terrorist do seem to be keeping their heads down and staying inside a lot.

the "terrorists" now control about half the country, doesn't sound like they're keeping their heads down at all

I mean they are quite literally "Keeping Their Heads Down" ... Looking up almost guarantees they will be spotted and recognized by drone/computer tech. Which is often shortly followed by the delivery of a Maverick or a Hellfire if collateral damaged can be minimized. Not exactly a bright future is it?

Anyone who expects that to change as NUTS as those who think Israel is going to cease to exist.

The Zionist entity is like an oil rig in the middle of the ocean. Yes it stands, but as soon as it stops being maintained from the shores, it will begin to be swept away by the oceans that surround it.

Then, until this imaginary future occurs, Muslims will have to content themselves with the misery this pipe dream brings upon them. It's virtually impossible to help people who won't help themselves. Perhaps the systematic elimination of Jihadist, Terrorists, and Extremist now taking place will allow reasonable Muslims to emerge from hiding and assume authority ? It's worth a try I guess ...

Zam

[Godstud]

It seems that Islamists in the Middle East always has some scapegoat or excuse for their actions. They won't take responsibility for their own actions that perpetuate their own misery. instead they find some bogeyman(USA/The West), to blame, while their own people, leaders and despots exploit/rape/kill them. When they finally realize they're doing more harm then good, maybe they'll seek peaceful methods for change.

[Rich]

I'd recommend anyone seriously trying to comprehend "WHY ISIS" watch it. ISIS is the only real viable alternative a lot of Iraqi Sunni have.

Iraqi Sunnis could have accepted their minority status in Iraq. They could have pushed for autonomy as a staging post to independence like the Kurds. But no they wanted to bomb their way back into control of the whole of Iraq. The Iraqi Shia were incredibly restrained. But eventually, they had to communicate with the Sunni Arabs in the only language they understand - terror. Eventually the poor Shia had to give the Sunni Arabs a taste of their own medicine.

The Sunni Arabs were fortified by their leftie Liberal supporters in the West. They knew that the more Shia and Kurdish women and children they could blow up, the more western lefties would cheer them on as noble legitimate freedom fighters. Its time the Western left woke up to the fact that they have got blood on their hands.

[Zamuel]

Iraqi Sunnis could have accepted their minority status in Iraq. They could have pushed for autonomy as a staging post to independence like the Kurds. But no they wanted to bomb their way back into control of the whole of Iraq.

There certainly was Sunni reaction to Saddam's disposition, but it was focused on American's and their direct supporters (both Sunni and Shia). It was not directed against the general Shia population.

The Iraqi Shia were incredibly restrained.

BS ... The Shia were screaming bloody murder and scrambling to grab all the power they could whilst cutting individual deals with Iran for the support the US was reluctant to give.

But eventually, they had to communicate with the Sunni Arabs in the only language they understand - terror.

More BS. If you think "Terror" is justifiable, you're one too. Keep it up and see where it gets you.

Zam

[font]

The Zionist entity is like an oil rig in the middle of the ocean. Yes it stands, but as soon as it stops being maintained from the shores, it will begin to be swept away by the oceans that surround it. The Zionists are surrounded by an ocean of Arabs and beyond them an ocean of Muslims, they cannot survive without external maintenance, and that will one day be too costly to continue.

Islam in its current form is doomed to collapse, because it isn't consistent with general direction of human civilization.
Israel on the contrary is a developed country and is an integral part of the world modern society.

[abu_rashid]

Islam in its current form is doomed to collapse, because it isn't consistent with general direction of human civilization.

Islam has never been "in step" with the rest of civilisation that's one of it's most endearing features.

In fact the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said: "Islam began as something strange and it will return as something strange, so glad tidings to the strangers"

Israel on the contrary is a developed country and is an integral part of the world modern society.

What you really mean by this is "Israel is an outpost of our civilisation". Goes without saying you'd support something that is an outpost of your civilisation in the middle of someone else's.

[font]

Islam has never been "in step" with the rest of civilisation that's one of it's most endearing features.
Every orthodox believers have the same "endearing feature".
The development of human civilization has nothing to do with sayings of prophet Muhammad.

In fact the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said: "Islam began as something strange and it will return as something strange, so glad tidings to the strangers"

Every orthodox believers have the same "endearing feature".
The development of human civilization has nothing to do with sayings of prophet Muhammad.

What you really mean by this is "Israel is an outpost of our civilisation". Goes without saying you'd support something that is an outpost of your civilisation in the middle of someone else's.

No need to interpret my posts. I write exactly what I mean.
Israel supports nothing but its security and national interests.

[abu_rashid]

Every orthodox believers have the same "endearing feature".

They do? Like who?

The development of human civilization has nothing to do with sayings of prophet Muhammad.

Yet one of the longest lasting and most important phases of human civilisation was based on his mission... what a bizarre claim you've made here.

No need to interpret my posts. I write exactly what I mean.

Not really interpreting, merely "factoring".

Israel supports nothing but its security and national interests.

You can't honestly believe this. The Zionist outpost was implanted in the heart of the Muslim world for a very specific reason, and it continues to enjoy the largest amount of US aid for that very same reason.

[GandalfTheGrey]

That kind of militarisation is due to circumstances, it's not due to ideology. People don't commit those acts based on an ideological viewpoint as we're led to believe, they commit them based on a reactionary response to attacks against either themselves or Islam/Muslims in general.

Oh come now Abu - your ideology is that people should be executed for thought crimes and that adults engaging in certain consensual sexual acts should be pelted with stones until they die. If people like you get together and claim your own state - and start enforcing such a brutal regime, we're not going to dismiss that as some "reactionary response to attacks" are we? Thats 100% ideology.

[abu_rashid]

Oh come now Abu - your ideology is that people should be executed for thought crimes and that adults engaging in certain consensual sexual acts should be pelted with stones until they die. If people like you get together and claim your own state - and start enforcing such a brutal regime, we're not going to dismiss that as some "reactionary response to attacks" are we? Thats 100% ideology.

Conflating a belief in capital punishment with people committing violent acts in retaliation against an international aggressor. Sorry I can't stoop to even bother really addressing this.