[SolarCross]

To the true people thanks for the replies:

@noemon
Thanks for sharing your view. I did find it to be an encouraging perspective.

@Albert & @colliric
I will indeed get a bible and read it. I don't hold with the idea of "bible inerrancy", that is plainly in error, but clearly it is the most important book in Christendom and the main testimony on the life and works of Jesus. Undoubtedly it is mandatory reading for a Christian.

@Victoribus Spolia

On confession: I can only confess to what I know to be true, I am not a great or good man but one of my few virtues is a truthful disposition. I suppose after prayer, contemplation and reading of the good books I will discover the truth of jesus and then be in a position to truthfully confess.

Baptism: Depending on the exact denomination I join with, if any, I suppose that will be something to be done at some point.

Obedience to the Ten Commandments: I have refreshed my awareness of those and I am happy to report I am already in near total compliance. The only ones I might not really be in compliance with are:
1. "No gods before me" - being an atheist contravenes that I guess, easily remedies by becoming a true believer
2. "no graven images" - Honestly I don't really know what this one means because what it seems to mean is "don't do resonance magick", use a graphical device to call forth supernatural beings. Technically it seems every christian who wears a cross, or goes to church with a idol or ikon of Jesus and the saints or a statue of Mary is doing resonance magick and thus contravening the law. I guess it's a matter of interpretation but I think the most reasonable way to interpret it is "don't do resonance magick to call forth evil gods". If so I am in full compliance now anyway.
3. "don't take god's name in vain" - this must be false preaching? Using god's name to preach a false religion? If so then again I am in full compliance.
4. Keep the Sabbath - I interpret this as making time for spiritual practice: attending to services, prayer, meditation, reading good works etc. As a former atheist you wouldn't really expect me to be in compliance with this but it is something I will remedy.
5-10: I am already in full compliance.

----------

Okay so now the trolls (briefly because why waste the time?):
@Zamuel
I am the poor man! You should give me your stuff! Everyone is an individual with an individual spiritual need. What is good advice to a rich man with no heirs and dependants who wants to focus on spiritual attainment is not good advice to a poor man with a wife and kids to look after. Maybe think before you take the Lord's name in vain?

[Zamuel]

I am the poor man! You should give me your stuff!

I think you missed the point ... If you wish to hear god, you first have to listen. If you're not hearing him, you're doing something wrong.

Quite a few don't hear him because he's not saying what they want him to. You, I suspect, are more interested in the sound of your own voice. (Been there, done that).

Zam

[Albert]

How do you "hear" god?

[Heisenberg]

I will indeed get a bible and read it.

If you do, get the King James Version rather than some modern prosaic trainwreck.

[Victoribus Spolia]

A couple of thoughts...

I don't hold with the idea of "bible inerrancy"

This doctrine is often misunderstood by those unacquainted with orthodox theological traditions. Rest assured it is an important doctrine, but its not likely what you think it is. If you have more questions on it, let me know.

I can only confess to what I know to be true, I am not a great or good man but one of my few virtues is a truthful disposition.

Well part of the message you will come in contact with is that you are in fact neither a great or a good man and are incapable of either of those things in a true and perfect sense.

Outward or "civic" righteousness is possible even for the heathen, but true righteousness and holiness is something that you are incapable of as all are incapable of it due to the nature of the Fall of Man into sin and its generational affect. We are all hopelessly lost and doomed for Damnation with the devils without receiving the grace of God in Christ as manifested through His bride, the Church, her offices, her preaching, and her sacraments.

I pray that God will bestow His grace upon you and show you the need for Christ and His work as fully given in Word and Sacrament.

You know how to reach me.

This applies to the Ten Commandments.

You cannot ever be "in full compliance."

Indeed, the burden of the commandments were summed up this way as a distinction between the letter and the spirit of the Law:

The first table of the Law (pertaining to those obligations before God) is summarized: " "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind." Whereas, the second table is summarized thusly: "and Love your neighbor as yourself."


This is the essence of the Christian Law, and even though they are dileneated into invidual laws, the spirit of the faith is obeying these summaries given by our Lord., which is impossible to do in this life.

The Law also has three primary purposes.

1. The first is to convict of sin, showing a man his depravity and his imperfection and therefore his need for Christ and the Grace of God.

2. the second use, is the civil use, wherein these laws are to be used to restrain and punish evildoers who would disobey them.

3. the third use, is to give forth a standard of righteousness for Christians to follow, a guide to holy living.

[Pants-of-dog]

How do you "hear" god?

By looking for the best in other people and trying to hear them with as open a heart as possible.

By appreciating the beauty of every moment.

Doing good. Avoiding evil.

[Decky]

You can hear him in the laughing of the children and the crack of the armlites.

[Albert]

Where did the Irish get rpgs from? Did Russians have a hand in this?

[Decky]

Na I am pretty sure the Communists imported civilised people to do all the research and development of new technology.

[Albert]

Decky have you ever wondered that you just like conflict and drama?

[Decky]

Have you ever wondered what it would be like to earn your first pay cheque? You might like it.

[Pants-of-dog]

Decky have you ever wondered that you just like conflict and drama?

Isn’t that why we are all here at PoFo?

[Albert]

No Pants, no.

[Decky]

Albert and Agent Steel are here for cruising based reasons.

[Sivad]

Faith, Baptism, and Obedience should be your first three points of focus and meditation on this journey.

There is no magic formula and salvation doesn't come from convincing oneself that an ancient myth is historical fact.

Matthew 7
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

It's not about what you profess or believe, it's about metanoia, a fundamental transformation of heart and mind brought about by sincere commitment of service to the summum bonum.

"each man must work out his own salvation with fear and trembling."

[Sivad]

I will indeed get a bible and read it. I don't hold with the idea of "bible inerrancy", that is plainly in error

[Victoribus Spolia]

There is no magic formula and salvation doesn't come from convincing oneself that an ancient myth is historical fact.

Nor would I claim such; nonetheless, the way of salvation is plain and I don't think you are giving the historic formula I have given the proper credit.

Also, i have nothing but respect for DBH and his work "Atheist Delusions" is one of the wittiest apologetical works ever written.

His views on Anarcho-Monarchism are kinda cool too.

[Sivad]

Nor would I claim such; nonetheless, the way of salvation is plain and I don't think you are giving the historic formula I have given the proper credit.

I think the mythology and the ritual can be helpful for some, but for a lot of people it just leads them into a pharisaic mentality and stifles real spiritual development. I know a lot of atheists who I would consider born of the spirit and a lot of Christian fundies who are whitewashed tombs. It's ultimately not about creeds and rituals, there has to be a real spiritual awakening and a genuine process of transpersonal development. I don't think even a belief in God is necessary for what Christians call salvation and salvation has nothing to do with the afterlife.

Also, i have nothing but respect for DBH and his work "Atheist Delusions" is one of the wittiest apologetical works ever written.

His take downs of the new atheists are definitely right on.

[Victoribus Spolia]

I know a lot of atheists who I would consider born of the spirit and a lot of Christian fundies who are whitewashed tombs.

I would never go that far, you cannot enter into eternal life as an atheist. period.

I think the mythology and the ritual can be helpful for some

I am not advocating for ritualism, but true faith, church membership, and partaking of the sacraments which God uses to bestow sanctifying grace.

for a lot of people it just leads them into a pharisaic mentality and stifles real spiritual development.

Agreed.

There has to be a real spiritual awakening

Correct, but such are not divorced from means. You cannot have true spiritual awakening and deny the Christ. You cannot claim to have such and continue, without improvement or repentance, in grossly immoral sins. You cannot claim spiritual awakening and completely forsake the Church of Christ, Her preaching, Her sacraments, and the fellowship of the saints.

Christians need the Gospel, the Word, The Sacraments, and Fellowship with one another and a true belief in the person and work of Jesus Christ.

Without these things, there is no hope of entering into eternal life.

No mere "spiritualism" combined with good intentions and occasional charity work can substitute for submission to the teachings of the Holy Scriptures.

[One Degree]

I would never go that far, you cannot enter into eternal life as an atheist. period.

@Victoribus Spolia , obviously I can not prove this false, but if humans can surpass such black and white reasoning, it is difficult to picture a God that could not.