[blackjack21]

No. That's absolute rubbish, and a lie. Where do you hear such bullshit? That might be part of the problem.

We must listen to Godstud. Canadians are so authentic and good people.



There's nothing ridiculous about them. They are very knowledgeable about other cultures.


I work with people from India all the time. Funny thing. They rarely ever dress the way the Prime Minister of Canada did. What's with that? I guess I work with the wrong Indians.


Godstud must know the truth about what prayers Muslims recite. Justin Trudeau does, because apparently he prays with them from time to time.

[annatar1914]

I'm guessing you're not familiar with independent protestant churches, much less Pentecostal and Evangelical ones.

On the contrary, I'm all too familiar with them, and historically in the period you are covering they didn't have the impact of the mainline Protestant gatherings and assemblies.

These churches are "Non-Ceremonial & Non-Liturgical" often completely extemporaneous and VERY popular in the USA.

''very popular'' I guess to the people in them, others may not have that same feeling I imagine...

(like I said, they go back to pre American Revolutionary times. I guess your local church missed out on the 1st and 2nd "Great Awakenings"

As a man who was born Papist, committed to an ardent traditional Papism as a young adult, and who now is an Orthodox Christian of Old Ritualist sympathies, you might say that. I am however aware that the phenomena you mention I believe was more of a Methodist affair initially, and they still had a liturgy, sacraments, bishops, etc.. At that time.

The first Prayer was composed by a senior army chaplain and distributed for use in services and to individual Army personnel. (it worked to.)

Again, as a localized and temporary American phenomena.

Twain's "Prayer" evidences his response to the very popular custom of church invocations of death and destruction upon their enemies at that time.

Again, an Infidel, attacking an easy target, the ''low hanging fruit'' so to speak. It happens pretty often.

I'm sorry if the facts disturb your idyllic view of Christian morality,

If you genuinely knew of ''christian morality'' you might realize that Christians are sinners by admission, and we are well aware of our struggles to fulfill the Lord's commandments in this life, even as we do so with His help. So I am neither disturbed nor do I have an idyllic view. Hospitals are for sick people, and the condition is terminal but yet not permanent.

but Christians are as blood thirsty and hysterical as the worst of the Islamic Jihadi preachers.

If they are, they are going against the teachings of their faith, contra the Muslims. Plus, one would need to define ''blood thirsty'' and ''hysterical'', as Christians are not enjoined to be pacifists in every circumstance. Seems you've let your imagination and emotion get the better of you, if I didn't know any better.

Another typical example of a non-Christian lecturing Christians on what their religion is and is not

[Zamuel]

As a man who was born Papist, committed to an ardent traditional Papism as a young adult, and who now is an Orthodox Christian of Old Ritualist sympathies, you might say that. I am however aware that the phenomena you mention I believe was more of a Methodist affair initially, and they still had a liturgy, sacraments, bishops, etc.. At that time.

Methodist? Like I said you are ignorant of the events and development of American Churches. It appears you are doomed to remain so. I tried …

Zam

[annatar1914]

Methodist? Like I said you are ignorant of the events and development of American Churches. It appears you are doomed to remain so. I tried …

Zam

John Wesley was absolutely integral to the events known as the 'Great Awakening', along with his friend George Whitfield. Almost at random I found an educational article for you;

https://www.christianity.com/church/chu ... 30220.html

You really should try to have an actual conversation with people.

[Godstud]

Godstud must know the truth about what prayers Muslims recite.

Provide some evidence that this is done, or go back to the bridge you live under.

No evidence that this happens has been presented and you can rant and rave like a moronic maniac, and that still will not be evidence that Muslims end their prayers with "Christians and Jews are contemptible".

I have no idea what the Prime Minster of Canada has to do with anything of this, except that you're trying to insinuate something that is not even related, to this topic(as usual), because you HAVE NO ARGUMENT. This is typical with you, @blackjack21, of course.

Troll on, numpty.

[Zamuel]

John Wesley was absolutely integral to the events known as the 'Great Awakening', along with his friend George Whitfield.

The Wesley brothers were primarily influential in England. Whitfield was a powerful speaker. He was also an Anglican, a Calvinist, and he supported slavery, all of which limited his influence. He was mildly popular in the American South. The well known "old side / old light" scholastic theologians for the most part remined fixated on their "intellectual" religion.

The revolution the "great awakening" sparked was not intellectual in nature. Neither were it's proponents educated men of letters. In America, self consecrated preachers rose from the swelling masses to proclaim God as a vibrant personal experience. Small congregations formed around them and worshipped in barns rather than in gilded sepulchers. Nameless lay preachers went forth to spread the word. It was a massive movement that changed the face of religion in America. It's tenets of a personal relationship with the almighty still resonate and many of the "Big" churches that occupy entire city blocks have tried to adapt themselves.

You really should try to have an actual conversation with people.

That takes two (or more). Kind of impossible when you begin by saying you know "nothing" about something and then dispute in depth the explanation and examples offered. Your idea of religious communion seems to be sitting still for an hour or so and not farting amongst the congregation.

Zam

[annatar1914]

The Wesley brothers were primarily influential in England.

They were vastly more influential in North America. Are there even any Methodists in the British Isles?

Whitfield was a powerful speaker. He was also an Anglican, a Calvinist, and he supported slavery, all of which limited his influence.

Hardly. Whitefield had a tremendous appeal, not least because he had hard things to say, and it convicted many people in their hearts.

He was mildly popular in the American South. The well known "old side / old light" scholastic theologians for the most part remined fixated on their "intellectual" religion.

He was very Erudite, most preachers were back then. But it didn't mean that he couldn't speak to people. Rhetoric was something they used to teach educated men back then. Alas! Not anymore...

The revolution the "great awakening" sparked was not intellectual in nature.

It may come as a surprise to you, but intelligent people don't have to check their brain at the door when they ''get religion'' and are drawn to ponder the eternal verities.

Neither were it's proponents educated men of letters.

Wrong again. Most were from the Ivy-league schools back in that distant past when they taught what every man of letters was expected to know-a classical education-and the same schools were connected to the Protestant churches intimately still.

In America, self consecrated preachers rose from the swelling masses to proclaim God as a vibrant personal experience.

Most weren't ''self-consecrated'', nor did they preach the quakerism or unitarian universalism I think you're talking about. ''vibrant personal experiences'' require vibrant Persons. Man and God.

Small congregations formed around them and worshipped in barns rather than in gilded sepulchers.

I figure most avoided tombs.

Most were in regular community churches, these meetings, although there were tents and barns and other places if they had to.

Nameless lay preachers went forth to spread the word.

They weren't ''nameless''.

It was a massive movement that changed the face of religion in America. It's tenets of a personal relationship with the almighty still resonate and many of the "Big" churches that occupy entire city blocks have tried to adapt themselves.

It ebbs and flows. Many of those churches you mention were founded during the last revival wave.

That takes two (or more). Kind of impossible when you begin by saying you know "nothing" about something and then dispute in depth the explanation and examples offered.

I said frankly that you knew little, but fact is the main problem lies in your attitude.

Your idea of religious communion seems to be sitting still for an hour or so and not farting amongst the congregation.

So judgemental of you, of my personal spiritual state. Projecting, much?

[Godstud]

Re: OP
IS IT TRUE THAT THE REQUIRED MUSLIM PRAYER END WITH "CHRISTIANS AND JEWS ARE CONTEMPTIBLE"?

The answer is still no, and not one person saying otherwise has provided even a scrap of evidence showing otherwise.

Was this intended as an Islamophobia thread?

[blackjack21]

[Albert]

Lol Trudeau, how dare you speak ill of benevolent humanitarian tyrant!

[Godstud]

This has nothing to do with the topic. You are in the wrong thread, as this has nothing to do with cultural sensitivity or any other such nonsense. This has to do with a claim made in the original post. A claim that no one has seen fit to provide evidence for, because there isn't any.

You're both simply childishly trolling, at this point.

Note: I can tell @blackjack21 has quite the boy-crush on Trudeau, though.

[blackjack21]

This guy seems to think that Muslim clerics pray nasty prayers: http://raymondibrahim.com/2011/11/07/mu ... s-of-hate/

[Godstud]

Still not supporting the OP. Try harder, little man.

These are prayers by idiots who are not representative of Muslims, and these are individual prayers, and not ones meant for many. Really, you're slacking off, @blackjack21,. Your arguments and posts are pathetic.

[Pants-of-dog]

The boxing pic with Trudeau reminds me of when he punched out Brazeau.

[blackjack21]

These are prayers by idiots who are not representative of Muslims, and these are individual prayers, and not ones meant for many.

Catholics used to pray the Solemn Intercession for "perfidious Jews" among others. Pius XII finally removed "perfidious" from the language. So it's not uncommon for a prayer to be spoken from a pulpit that is not too friendly to people of other faiths. You may call the people praying such prayers from a pulpit "idiots" as you often characterize those who do not believe in socialism with unfavorable connotations suggesting a lack of intelligence, but that doesn't mean that they don't have a significant audience.

I'm not a highly intelligent and sophisticated Canadian like yourself. Perhaps not all Muslims take the Quran to heart, but perhaps some of them take the following interpretations to heart:

5:82

You will surely find the most intense of the people in animosity toward the believers [to be] the Jews and those who associate others with Allah ; and you will find the nearest of them in affection to the believers those who say, "We are Christians." That is because among them are priests and monks and because they are not arrogant.

That seems to acquit the Christians to some extent since they are "nearest of them in affection to the believers", but finds the Jews pretty much their most hated enemy.

What do you think Muslims may think of casinos?

5:90

O you who have believed, indeed, intoxicants, gambling, [sacrificing on] stone alters [to other than Allah ], and divining arrows are but defilement from the work of Satan, so avoid it that you may be successful.

For example, Trump does not drink alcohol. Yet, he once owned a casino.

Islam also seems to have problems with usury, as does Christianity.

4:161

And [for] their taking of usury while they had been forbidden from it, and their consuming of the people's wealth unjustly. And we have prepared for the disbelievers among them a painful punishment.

They also don't seem to like people who purport to speak for Islam when they aren't Muslims.

3:75

And among the People of the Scripture is he who, if you entrust him with a great amount [of wealth], he will return it to you. And among them is he who, if you entrust him with a [single] silver coin, he will not return it to you unless you are constantly standing over him [demanding it]. That is because they say, "There is no blame upon us concerning the unlearned." And they speak untruth about Allah while they know [it].

How does your superlative Canadian mind parse these Quranic phrases?

[Godstud]

You have still, with your ignorant American failed democracy antics, not proven or provided evidence to support the fantasy scenario in the OP. In fact, I disputed the idea of it in my very first post, if you'd care to CATCH UP.

What do you think Muslims may think of casinos?

How is that related to the OP?
Nothing you spoke of supports this fantasy scenario and only demonstrates your hatred of anything Islamic, and your homo-erotic boy-crush on PM Trudeau.

Just for you, @blackjack21. Enjoy.

[blackjack21]

You have still, with your ignorant American failed democracy antics, not proven or provided evidence to support the fantasy scenario in the OP. In fact, I disputed the idea of it in my very first post, if you'd care to CATCH UP.

I don't know what Muslims pray every day, as I am a Christian takfir. However, it is said that Muslims pray the first chapter and verses of the Quran everyday. The last is apparently:

Sahih International: The path of those upon whom You have bestowed favor, not of those who have evoked [Your] anger or of those who are astray.

Pickthall: The path of those whom Thou hast favoured; Not the (path) of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who go astray.

Yusuf Ali: The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.

Shakir: The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray.

Muhammad Sarwar: the path of those to whom You have granted blessings, those who are neither subject to Your anger nor have gone astray.

Mohsin Khan: The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace , not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians).

Arberry: the path of those whom Thou hast blessed, not of those against whom Thou art wrathful, nor of those who are astray.

So at least the Mohsin Khan interpretation directly references the Jews and Christians, while the others seem to do so indirectly. We are not all wise Canadians like yourself and your leader, Justin Trudeau.





So we can only surmise.

[Godstud]

I don't know what Muslims pray every day, as I am a Christian takfir.

That's the only honest thing you've said.

However, it is said that Muslims pray the first chapter and verses of the Quran everyday.

"It is said..."

Mohsin Khan: The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace , not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians).

Where is this from? You, or another, putting in their own interpretation, doesn't make it so. You're arguments are hilariously inept!

More Trudeau fan-boy stuff that's off-topic? You must really have the hots for the Canadian PM.
Are all Americans so infatuated with PM Trudeau?

[blackjack21]

Where is this from? You, or another, putting in their own interpretation, doesn't make it so. You're arguments are hilariously inept!

I just did a little searching, and found this description of the Muslim call to prayer 5 times a day.

The 5 Muslim Daily Prayer Times and What They Mean
Do you think it is hilariously inept?

It says that Muslims pray the first verse of the Quran, so I looked it up. My cite is from:
Quran.com
Do you think quran.com a good source for interpretations of the Quran? They cite English translations chapter and verse.

More Trudeau fan-boy stuff that's off-topic?

Trudeau seems to be well-versed in Islam. Is it so bad that we mention him? Is that upsetting to you? You seem to be making this into an "Ignorant Americans versus the World" thread, so it seems that your background (Canadian) and present locale are once again relevant.

When Trump moved to ban immigrants from unstable countries in the Middle East with a history of terror activity, many characterized it as a "Muslim ban", even though it clearly was not. Justin Trudeau seemed to do so as well.

Canada's Justin Trudeau: Refugees are welcome here

The above article depicts Trudeau accordingly:

Canada’s response followed Trump’s executive order barring travelers and refugees from Iran, Iraq, Sudan, Somalia, Syria, Yemen, and Libya for 90 days. The measure also indefinitely banned Syrian refugees and suspended the US’s broader refugee program for 120 days.

Trump said the order gives his administration time to develop stricter screening process for refugees, immigrants, and visitors “to keep radical Islamic terrorists out.”

So it seems that the OP is asking the question whether the daily Muslim prayer says that Jews and Christians are contemptible. From what I can gather, it characterizes Jews and Christians separately where Allah is meant to vent his wrath upon the Jews and the Quran characterizes Christians as those who have "gone astray." I am not sure if that is a hilariously inept understanding.

Are there any Muslims here who can help us out?

Anyway, it seems that the Syrian crisis touched Trudeau as the young Syrian boy, Alan Kurdi, was trying to immigrate to Canada "before giving up in desperation and taking to the sea". Apparently, Canadian compassion didn't come quick enough for him.

It would be impossible to explain the outpouring of support and compassion that allowed Canada to take in 25,000 Syrian refugees in a matter of weeks without taking into account the impact on Canada’s national psyche of the death of Alan Kurdi. Alan was the three-year-old Syrian boy who drowned while crossing the Mediterranean with his family last September and whose body washed up on a Turkish beach – to be famously photographed as he was picked up and cradled by a Turkish police officer.

The photo of a lifeless Alan face down in the sand, his little tennis shoes carefully tied on his feet, shook the world. But for Canadians it became personal when it was learned that his family had relatives in British Columbia and had been trying to legally immigrate to Canada before giving up in desperation and taking to the sea.

[Godstud]

So it seems that the OP is asking the question whether the daily Muslim prayer says that Jews and Christians are contemptible.

This is an assertion that is sheer fantasy, as no evidence of this has been provided. You still have not provided any evidence that Muslims end prayers with "Christians and Jews are contemptible". The Muslim prayers mentioned do not support this, either.

From what I can gather, it characterizes Jews and Christians separately where Allah is meant to vent his wrath upon the Jews and the Quran characterizes Christians as those who have "gone astray."

The Jews do this as well(See Goy/Goyim). What has that to do with anything?

The rest of your post is hilarious anti-islamic ravings, blatant falsehoods, and more of your boy-crush stuff on PM Trudeau. So cute.