Hello @Potemkin my friend, as this thread is larger than I anticipated, I feel that I can answer both you and our @Tainari88's replies in one post. You said concerning Shakespeare;
Indeed they were. They hated his 'crude' earthiness, and they disapproved of his contempt for the Aristotelian unities of time and place. Even his poetic style and diction seemed wild and undisciplined (at least when translated into German or French). In other words, they were crypto-Gnostics who hated matter and valorised the 'spirit', or 'Geist', above all else.
I suspected as much. I think German Idealism has more to do with the subject of my thread here than I realized fully at first. Now it seems too that you confirm the horror of Hell's materiality for myself and for Dante, all too real;
Precisely. Hell, to Dante, was and is a real place with real torments, real fires and real ice.... The geography of Hell is the geography of a real place.
Yes, quite literal even if he had to describe it in a poetic fashion, place there people he didn't like, etc... I was pretty mad when I had an Instructor once who placed Dante's work in the realm of Allegory. Dante isn't that sort, I read his ''De Monarchia'' also and he's a hard-eyed realist, if anything.
As for the poor Atheists;
I would say that most so-called 'Christians', at least the ones of my acquaintance, fall into the last category - they say that they believe in God, and may even believe that they believe in Him, but for all practical purposes they are dyed-in-the-wool atheists. They just don't know it yet.
Unfortunately pretty much on the mark. We create an Idol out of the kind of God we want (regardless of what or Who He might actually be) and we live as if He exists as a reflection of-surprise!-our own wills and desires. Well, that's not real belief in God at all although some Atheists of another sort might disagree. But on that we can set that conversation aside for now.
On the related issue of the Cartesian ''split'' of Mind and Matter;
Indeed. And this was a logical step to take, given the separation of matter and spirit which had already occurred in Western culture. Spirit is demoted to 'mind', which means the purely rational and logical aspect of our thinking, and matter is posited as some sort of independently-existing substrate out of which everything is made. Even within the context of purely scientific thinking, this is complete nonsense of course.
Absolutely correct in my consideration. Two ideas come to mind as I read your reply; one, is that the issue of Berkeley and his antipathy to matter as being a ''independently-existing substrate out of which everything is made'' which animated my earlier discussions on this thread with @Victoribus Spolia . And the second is an observation of the Frenchman Alexis de Tocqueville that Americans in the 1830's were the one people entirely infused with Cartesian thought about reality but the least likely people to have actually ever read Rene Decartes... Thoughts on these ideas?
On Spirit as a Subtle Body in conception
Indeed. And any other way of thinking of the 'Spirit' is incoherent. Abstracted away from matter, it ceases to have any substantial existence except as mere memories in the minds of the living, for example. To have spirit without matter is like having digestion without a stomach, to use Schopenhauer's apt analogy.
Yes, Spirit still has to be some form of matter, it isn't the point to figure out it's composition, only that it has some form of extension in the regular three dimensions which grounds It in the created Cosmos of reality along with plants, animals, and exercise DVD's...
And you said regarding what I'll admit is an external threat from another ''earthy'' Religion to the West, not an internal one, that;
... And this is a grave threat to the continued existence of what used to be called 'Christian civilisation'. But the main threat is from within. The barbarians are not at the gates of the city; they are inside the walls and are already governing us....
The difficult thing is that Western Civilization will still have to go, in my conception. The Light comes from the East; ''Lux Oriens''...
Looking forwards to further thoughts from you!
@Tainari88 ; you replied to me that;
I sent the PM but I think it got disappeared in some moment where there was a site update. So you never got it and I could not retrieve it. It basically said that your contributions were and are valuable and you bring a fresh and good perspective on politics. You do. There is no doubt about that.
Regarding out mutual reading of the world's religious texts;
I like reading up on Buddhism, and Muslim religious traditions, and all kinds of sects of Christianity. Roman Catholic traditions are vast. Methodists, Episcopalian, Unitarians, Baptists, Pentecostals, and many more sects of the Christian column of religious thought is very interesting to study. Matrin Luther, J. Calvin, and so many more who influenced not only religion but thought, philosophy and culture in their own nations and future ones. Russian Orthodox and Greek Orthodox religious traditions, Sufism, and so many others are extremely interesting. There are commonalities to human religions. I like studying it because religion is part of human life and human history. As an anthropologist Annatar14 every aspect of what makes us human? Is interesting to me. Religion is about a discipline and a practice that humans create to reach a goal. That usually has to do with cultivating a sense of spiritual commitment and advancement. How to get to know God well. That is the goal.
Religion appears to literally be in our DNA. I personally define Religion as a system of belief that attempts to provide ultimate answers to universal issues of human concern.
Upon my mention of my family and social circle growing up full of ''Hindsites'', you said;
I had a problem with Hindsite because he is a racist and really doesn't acknowledge flaws in human beings he sees as God's people. Nothing spiritual about Trump. But? People who don't think about behavior and thought and correlate it with the teachings? Are kind of just lost and totally unable to make deep connections to anything anyway. He did not understand my refusal to be labeled American. It is because I am not. The whole idea of being an American in Puerto Rico was never entered into asking the Puerto Ricans if they wanted to be Americans. It was imposed. And forced. And also the entire first 50 years of the American occupation was about dictatorship, decrees in a language no one spoke well on the island, and no rights and terrible conditions imposed. It got to extremes were no one legally could fly a Puerto Rican flag publicly, speak Spanish in a Puerto Rican school even though no one understood English at all. No one could discuss political thoughts publicly or privately. No one could do much at all. You can't force love for country from people who you are treating with the heavy boot heel of conquest and disrespecting them profoundly. They sterilized Puerto Rican women, and did mass abortions on Puerto Rican women without their consent, they did cancer experiments on many patients, were seen as not human and many other things. How can you think a true Puerto Rican who loves their family and their nation would identify with that oppressive regime? Only ignorant ones, or scared ones or the ones who sell out for a dollar. But Hindsite did not get it. He doesn't understand war conditions or anything about what colonial rule is like from these far away nations who don't do much for little islands in the Caribbean Sea and the Atlantic Ocean that they only want to use and abuse. Lack of conscience is a very costly thing to have in this world Annatar14, and many people who run these nasty Empires have it.
Seeing the World empathetically through the eyes of the Other, even the profoundly Other, can be a difficult thing. Especially when one isn't even going to try. There is a certain mindset in the world that I call ''Fascistic'' that goes well beyond the political personalities and followers of that political system in the early to mid-20th century, and that Anti-Life, Antichrist personality structure has it's own well defined ideas on what their ''Other'' must do...
Too many fake Christians out there Annatar.
As st. John says; ''they came out of us but they were not of us..''
On lessons from your father, on Love;
Yes it is. Love is the most powerful force in the world. It transforms everything in its path and it is why we love each other and love as strongly as we do. People who love God above anything always have to tow a very hard and heavy line, because the world of humans is filled with people who have no real love in their hearts....for God or for each other. And they cause tremendous damage.
Love is stronger than Death. We have that understanding imprinted on what we Orthodox Christians call the ''Nous'', which is the ''Mind'' of the Human Heart, although the ''Nous'' is dormant or semi-dormant in all Humanity. God can awaken It though, that awakening of the Nous is central to Orthodox Christianity and all we do or are really about. Saint Athanasius said that ''God became Man to make men, gods''.
On the Social Love of God within Himself, and among Mankind;
Love has always been social. Without it? We can't make peace with ourselves. Our greatest enemy is usually ourselves Annatar14, we sabotage our own capacity to love and to be giving by not making peace with our own defective natures. First. Before going out there and loving others.
Because flawed human nature, tarnished but not destroyed by the Fall, in some persons has an inability to love beyond themselves, everything and everyone else is perceived if at all as nothing more than a object or means to an end.
As to my possibly irreverent comment on God ''Being a Communist'';
Lol. I laugh because my mother said that exact same line, to people who would say, "Communists are atheists. They hate God." Öpiate of the people" Marx was a Jew who hated Christians. They fail to get the essence of what communal life should be like. Searching for a classless society? Where all share and no one has a need to dominate and impose? Control and coerce? That is the goal of true love. But you keep on shocking people Annatar14. It is part of your role in this world. Always my dear one.
Yes, much of my threads here in recent years have been about the attempt to square my Orthodox Christian devotion to God with my heartfelt Communism in this world, especially when I look at God's own directives in the matter. Of course, you and I and everyone else now lives in a Capitalist world... But that world is frankly falling apart because there's no other possibility for it to do otherwise.
On the spiritual experience;
I had a very spiritual experience. But it is best to not talk about that in such an attacking place as this. But, I will say there is a fire that the soul recognizes and it is an integral part of why one has to transform oneself when one loves deeply. It comes from a very very profound place in each individual. It is unique yet shared. Very much a dialectic. Materialism. Asi es.
Yes, we live in this world but it doesn't seem as if all of us are ''of'' the World.
You are right in all this that you wrote. At the same time, it is good to share one's point-of-view with others. For great learning is also a social thing. Just like love. You need it within a social context for growth to occur. Can't do it in isolation.
I will endeavor to talk to you about philosophical concepts in the future. It is good to take a break far away from the heat of politics. And go to church with you...Senor Annatar.
Yes, never in total permanent isolation. Even the Desert Fathers had God, and the Saints and Angels to commune with, and their brother Monks.
But man is a fickle and disreputable creature and perhaps, like a chess-player, is interested in the process of attaining his goal rather than the goal itself.