[annatar1914]

And what follows after, upon much reflection, will be born out of World War 3. That is, the conflict in Syria and the Ukraine. Think Azovsty and ISIS, melded together. Jihadist Islam with an Aryan myth (much as the Turkic and Persian were preserved and placed themselves at the head of the " faithful"). I can easily see Germany and Europe as being ruled by such as these, hailing Napoleon and Hitler as " muslims" of a sort. Islamofascism is continental Europe's future.

And I still stand by this assessment of the situation. How does it relate to my previous posts past couple days, about Modernity and America? Quite a bit.

The New World and the West in general belongs to those who will be born there, and those holding to the beliefs earlier mentioned aren't having children: they've been aborted and contracepted out of existence. What survives will provide an integral and even revivifying impetus to militant Islam.

[ingliz]

Islamofascism

The vast majority of immigrants to America are Christians (68%) and of those 39% are Catholic. Next comes the nonreligious at 20%.

Muslims make up only 4% of the total, so I don't see where you find Islamofascism.

I can see a Fascist America but an Islamofascist state seems a bigoted stretch too far.

[annatar1914]

The vast majority of immigrants to America are Christians (68%) and of those 39% are Catholic. Next comes the nonreligious at 20%.

Muslims make up only 4% of the total, so I don't see where you find Islamofascism.

I can see a Fascist America but an Islamofascist state seems a bigoted stretch too far.

@ingliz :

I'm sorry if I was not clear Ingliz, I suspect that America will be Fascist at least for a time, and that Europe will be under the heel of " Islamofascism" specifically.

[annatar1914]

Reading of Nehemiah, of the Prophet Ezra and Zerubabel , of the return from Babylonian exile of the Jews. Of the putting away of the mixed Pagan and Jewish populations.

Holiness requires a measure of exclusion, of distinction and discrimination, pretty much by definition. Confusion of the Sacred with the Profane leads to the loss of the Sacred, and mixing the Pagan with the Believer is a good way to ruin Right Belief, to have it decompose into Paganism.

Needless to say, but these books in the Bible are not popular reads in this day and age.

[Potemkin]

Reading of Nehemiah, of the Prophet Ezra and Zerubabel , of the return from Babylonian exile of the Jews. Of the putting away of the mixed Pagan and Jewish populations.

Holiness requires a measure of exclusion, of distinction and discrimination, pretty much by definition. Confusion of the Sacred with the Profane leads to the loss of the Sacred, and mixing the Pagan with the Believer is a good way to ruin Right Belief, to have it decompose into Paganism.

Needless to say, but these books in the Bible are not popular reads in this day and age.

This problem is especially acute for Christianity, which (unlike Judaism) claims to be a universal religion. Being exclusive and being universal are contradictory modes of being. Yet Christianity must somehow reconcile them.

[annatar1914]

This problem is especially acute for Christianity, which (unlike Judaism) claims to be a universal religion. Being exclusive and being universal are contradictory modes of being. Yet Christianity must somehow reconcile them.

@Potemkin :

Well put. The answer is wrapped up in the mystery of iniquity, of predestination and free will: " many are called, few are chosen".

Before modern times, the situation was accepted if not fully understood. And as the theological ramifications of the Age of Exploration sank in ( many peoples for ages, neither called nor chosen, apparently), combined with Scholastic speculations on the capabilities of man in his " natural " state, there arose a kind of Universal Salvation theology, and Ecumenical declarations, which rendered the questions moot for an indifferent multitude

Which is exactly what was predicted, as well.

[Drlee]

This problem is especially acute for Christianity, which (unlike Judaism) claims to be a universal religion. Being exclusive and being universal are contradictory modes of being. Yet Christianity must somehow reconcile them.

Which it does (very poorly) with the concepts of 'election' and 'free will'.

[annatar1914]

Which it does (very poorly) with the concepts of 'election' and 'free will'.

@Drlee :

Ultimately it's a Mystery, known only to God Himself. Orthodoxy can accept that, Western Christianity never could, infused with man's philosophical perigrinations as it always has been:

God is Sovereign, and owes nobody anything, but out of His will, brings to Himself who He wills to. Nobody earns His love, it's a gift freely given. God is Good and loves mankind. Some people go to Hell and everlasting ruin for their sins

All the same, free will is involved, man must struggle against evil dragging them down, evil within and evil without, a ceaseless combat of an entire lifetime, of prayerfully asking for God's life within him, to be taken up and dwell with Him. Repentance, Ascesis, prayer and alms and fasting. And until that time their works ( a reflection of their love for both God and man and indeed all creation)being the fruits of their grace and eventually Theosis, leads to the restoration of the Heart, seeing God's Uncreated Light because sin has obscured one's vision less and less.

A sign of all this being the ability to love. Hell is the egoism of being unable and unwilling to love. One cannot see the truth without love, nor love without growing into seeing the truth.

[annatar1914]

I recently rewatched the original " Battlestar Galactica " series with a friend of mine, and a couple of things stood out for me:

One thing is the enormous influence of Mormon cosmology on the writing of the show. Humans in regular state and in advanced angelic form are all over the universe of the series, with the later helping the former.

The other is the show's implicit American conservative bent, with episodes frequently harkening back to " peace through strength " and not allowing liberals to sell out mankind to tyrannical governments intent on slavery or extermination of peoples. I guess it appeared to make more sense to people during the Cold War, to which we are returning.

A third thing I noticed encapsulates the other two: the myth of " Space Brothers " intent on a benign " uplift" of less enlightened humans.

Here's my general takeaway from this: the West "needs" this cosmology and political philosophy, on a deep level. It both reflects and perpetuates the cultural code by which this particular civilization survives. As for its relation to reality, to the truth, that's a more difficult question to talk about, although I have quite a bit on this thread actually.

It brings home for me the realization that America is the true home of Revolution and of Modernity , the font of these notions and the battlefield by which all is tested and sifted. At stake is the spiritual colonization of the world. Revolution and Modernity and Americanization, I believe that it is all one thing.

[Potemkin]

I recently rewatched the original " Battlestar Galactica " series with a friend of mine, and a couple of things stood out for me:

One thing is the enormous influence of Mormon cosmology on the writing of the show. Humans in regular state and in advanced angelic form are all over the universe of the series, with the later helping the former.

The other is the show's implicit American conservative bent, with episodes frequently harkening back to " peace through strength " and not allowing liberals to sell out mankind to tyrannical governments intent on slavery or extermination of peoples. I guess it appeared to make more sense to people during the Cold War, to which we are returning.

A third thing I noticed encapsulates the other two: the myth of " Space Brothers " intent on a benign " uplift" of less enlightened humans.

Here's my general takeaway from this: the West "needs" this cosmology and political philosophy, on a deep level. It both reflects and perpetuates the cultural code by which this particular civilization survives. As for its relation to reality, to the truth, that's a more difficult question to talk about, although I have quite a bit on this thread actually.

It brings home for me the realization that America is the true home of Revolution and of Modernity , the font of these notions and the battlefield by which all is tested and sifted. At stake is the spiritual colonization of the world. Revolution and Modernity and Americanization, I believe that it is all one thing.

I think this is fundamentally correct. And it should also be understood that the October Revolution represented the final and irreversible victory of the Westernisers over the Slavophiles in Russia. The Bolshevisation of Russia was really the Americanisation of Russia, especially in the 1920s and 1930s. The left-wing intelligentsia who supported the Bolshevik Revolution - people like Mayakovsky and Eisenstein, Meyerhold or Klutsis - they all sang the praises of America, the land of modernity and speed and democracy. And Lenin agreed with them - Taylorism was introduced into Soviet factories, just as it had been a few decades earlier in America. Even the tractors used on the collective farms in the 1930s were made in America. One of the final shots of Sergei Eisenstein's movie about the glories of Stalin's collectivisation of agriculture, The General Line, is of a tractor ploughing the virgin soil, with the brand name 'Forde' emblazoned across its grille. Lol. We shouldn't let the later rivalry between the two superpowers during the Cold War blind us to their fundamental similarity. As Trotsky once pointed out, two nations can only really engage in conflict with each other if they are fundamentally similar, otherwise they cannot get to grips with each other. A naval power and a land-based power - how are they going to fight each other? No, Russia became modernised during the 20th century, which is to say that it became Americanised.

[annatar1914]

I think this is fundamentally correct. And it should also be understood that the October Revolution represented the final and irreversible victory of the Westernisers over the Slavophiles in Russia. The Bolshevisation of Russia was really the Americanisation of Russia, especially in the 1920s and 1930s. The left-wing intelligentsia who supported the Bolshevik Revolution - people like Mayakovsky and Eisenstein, Meyerhold or Klutsis - they all sang the praises of America, the land of modernity and speed and democracy. And Lenin agreed with them - Taylorism was introduced into Soviet factories, just as it had been a few decades earlier in America. Even the tractors used on the collective farms in the 1930s were made in America. One of the final shots of Sergei Eisenstein's movie about the glories of Stalin's collectivisation of agriculture, The General Line, is of a tractor ploughing the virgin soil, with the brand name 'Forde' emblazoned across its grille. Lol. We shouldn't let the later rivalry between the two superpowers during the Cold War blind us to their fundamental similarity. As Trotsky once pointed out, two nations can only really engage in conflict with each other if they are fundamentally similar, otherwise they cannot get to grips with each other. A naval power and a land-based power - how are they going to fight each other? No, Russia became modernised during the 20th century, which is to say that it became Americanised.

@Potemkin :

Although I can discern an eschatological dimension to these questions, and thus the growth of the spirit of Antichrist in the " later days ", I think you are right insofar as it goes about it being " irreversible ".

However, a proper discernment of the " kairos" of the times could lead to some troubling conclusions, such as a dire threat to the Jewish people and indeed all Monotheistic peoples posed by the phenomenon of America/Modernity/Revolution. Present conflicts could be seen in this light by those who resist this literal and physical as well as spiritual and cultural colonization.

This too is then a triumph and universalization of the Bourgeoisie and their " values "

[annatar1914]

@Potemkin :

Although I can discern an eschatological dimension to these questions, and thus the growth of the spirit of Antichrist in the " later days ", I think you are right insofar as it goes about it being " irreversible ".

However, a proper discernment of the " kairos" of the times could lead to some troubling conclusions, such as a dire threat to the Jewish people and indeed all Monotheistic peoples posed by the phenomenon of America/Modernity/Revolution. Present conflicts could be seen in this light by those who resist this literal and physical as well as spiritual and cultural colonization.

This too is then a triumph and universalization of the Bourgeoisie and their " values "

@Potemkin :

And to further elaborate, this Americanization both posits and demands a limitless cornucopia of resources, goods and services, both on Earth and an infinite universe beyond, to survive. Should anything or anyone stand in the way of this machine or its narrative it will be fought to the bitter end. Wars will be fought in the Heavens, or against the Heavens, as the case may be. Eternal Struggle has been posited as the father of all things, and by this we find Hitler as well as Lenin, an American. Napoleon and Peter the Great too. The Giants have returned.

[Potemkin]

@Potemkin :

And to further elaborate, this Americanization both posits and demands a limitless cornucopia of resources, goods and services, both on Earth and an infinite universe beyond, to survive. Should anything or anyone stand in the way of this machine or its narrative it will be fought to the bitter end. Wars will be fought in the Heavens, or against the Heavens, as the case may be. Eternal Struggle has been posited as the father of all things, and by this we find Hitler as well as Lenin, an American. Napoleon and Peter the Great too. The Giants have returned.

Precisely. Capitalism is posited on eternal access to infinite resources (which require effort to extract), and requires eternal growth if it is not to collapse. Without continued and continuous expansion of the forces of production, capitalism not only stagnates, it collapses. Without growth, there are no profits; without profits, there is no capitalism. Such a system encourages, and even requires, leaders of society, politics and industry who are Promethean, who are prepared to storm Heaven itself to steal the fire of the gods, to overthrow the idols of the past and revolutionise the world. Needless to say, such a system will eventually collide with reality itself - the reality of finite resources, finite space, finite time. That inevitable collision will cause its destruction. Reality always wins in the end. The Giants will fall and be bound in chains in the depths of Hell....

[annatar1914]

Precisely. Capitalism is posited on eternal access to infinite resources (which require effort to extract), and requires eternal growth if it is not to collapse. Without continued and continuous expansion of the forces of production, capitalism not only stagnates, it collapses. Without growth, there are no profits; without profits, there is no capitalism. Such a system encourages, and even requires, leaders of society, politics and industry who are Promethean, who are prepared to storm Heaven itself to steal the fire of the gods, to overthrow the idols of the past and revolutionise the world. Needless to say, such a system will eventually collide with reality itself - the reality of finite resources, finite space, finite time. That inevitable collision will cause its destruction. Reality always wins in the end. The Giants will fall and be bound in chains in the depths of Hell....

@Potemkin , my friend, Leon Bloy or especially Dostoyevsky must have seen this day and were glad!

We of a more intellectual bent may smile and roll our eyes at the cosmic nonsense that comes out of America, but behind it as you say is indeed an earnest and sincere Promethean or even Luciferian worldview inspiring it

[annatar1914]

I was hoping that if I wrote what I wished, that it would be timely. Sure enough, with President Trump's announcement to run for President in 2024, I believe that it will.

I've spoken of hyper normalization, and of the Giants. Of Buckminster Fuller and his " Pirates". Of the Nietzschean Superman and Last Man, of Phoenician/Canaanite families and the Sea Peoples who carried out the Bronze Age Collapse and also the hosts who carried out the later Dark Ages collapse as well....

Faustian Civilization lends itself to discussion about such men easily, dreams of spaceships in a glorious Western future come from the sailing world and the Age of Exploration and Piracy. Only today there are 8 Billion who have to be dealt with before any of that can happen: too many people or just too many of " Them". You know, certain peoples. And geopolitical factors are a big part of the higher considerations too that went into this.

Which is a manner of saying by way of a preface, that we've seen nothing yet by which to judge the next couple of years, and particularly within the United States of America. Bonapartism will be the closest analogue. Get used to it

[annatar1914]

@Potemkin , @Verv , @Political Interest , and others:

Was reading the story of the possessed healed of the demons by Christ in the Gospel of St. Mark, chapter 5, and it occurred to me that the children of darkness have always been wiser in their generation than the children of light, as Our Lord also said.

The possessed in this Gentile region said that his name was Legion. The demons asked Christ to send them into the swine nearby, who then drowned.

The 10th Roman Legion, whose symbol was a Boar, occupied the Holy Land. Imagine those swine as Pagans, heedlessly running off a cliff into the waters, like the Egyptian host into the Red Sea. Nothing original I'm hinting at, but perhaps the conclusions are original somewhat.

What I suggest then is a full on Pagan revival, and thus a revival of the Greco Roman and Germanic world in the future of Europe and the lands of the Hellenistic and semi Hellenistic Ecumene. The Christ confronting the Pagans like a Maccabee or Zealot Messianic dream is a put off future, not a future that is denied. This seems important, any thoughts?

[ness31]

Forgive my intrusion folks, but I just want to leave something with you all..

It’s a thought provoking philosophical discussion on AI. Jonathan Pageau draws an excellent parallel between the beast and the image of the beast in Revelations to what we’re constructing in AI today. Personally, I have to brush up on my reading of Revelations so I can’t comment, but I did really enjoy his application, even if it wasn’t with the positive spin I’d have liked lol.

So, I’ll just leave that there and I hope you all have a lovely day

[Rich]

Jefferson could call for the equivalent of Trotsky’s “permanent revolution” back in the 18th century.

I don't follow the analogy here. The term "Permanent Revolution" can be misleading and can conjure up a vision of something more akin to Mao's cultural Revolution than what was meant by Trotsky.

I see this bickering between ancient Romano-Greek Paganism and Christianity, but what of the Hindus, some say they invented nothing.

[annatar1914]

Forgive my intrusion folks, but I just want to leave something with you all..

It’s a thought provoking philosophical discussion on AI. Jonathan Pageau draws an excellent parallel between the beast and the image of the beast in Revelations to what we’re constructing in AI today. Personally, I have to brush up on my reading of Revelations so I can’t comment, but I did really enjoy his application, even if it wasn’t with the positive spin I’d have liked lol.

So, I’ll just leave that there and I hope you all have a lovely day

@ness31 :

I have read Pageau from time to time. I too find that the main thrust of Western/Faustian Civilization was always tending towards a drive to the " thinking machine", to the Cyborg, to Transhumanism. What we're looking at is (if the West is not stopped) the extinction of all Mankind, spiritually and physically. All but a few who are remote and off grid in the Wilderness.

AI. This is Antichrist.

[Rich]

I have read Pageau from time to time. I too find that the main thrust of Western/Faustian Civilization was always tending towards a drive to the " thinking machine"

Some say it would be unfair to say that the Babylonians invented nothing, but they invented next to nothing. Some say the ancient Greeks were very open to new ideas. Some say they rejected nothing. What stood between the ancient Greeks and the modern mathematical, scientific and technological revolution? Some say they lacked nothing.