[Unthinking Majority]

@Unthinking Majority ;

I'm not asking you to ''go away'', I'm asking you to not ''derail''. That is, do you understand what I wrote in my OP, and are you willing to have a discussion based on my contentions or in some kind of disagreement with them?

You'll note I have never asked anyone what they believe up front, look at the other people who I have involved discussions with in this Sub-Forum.

Well, if I don't agree with some of your assertions for athiestic or scientific reasons then I guess that's a derail and I have to go away.

I don't know the nature of time and the universe. But I disagree with you about the linear nature of time and the universe. It's quite probable there are cycles, since everything else in time/space that we know happens in cycles. Electrons orbit the nucleus. The moon orbits the earth. The earth orbits the sun. The solar system orbits the center of the galaxy. Galaxies form galaxy clusters, and clusters form supergalaxies etc, and they're all rotating. Stars burn bright and spread light, then turn to black holes and suck the light from everything.

The sun goes down, and it comes up again, and goes down again etc. Summer turn to winter, which turns to summer again, and continues. I think the universe itself probably exists in a similar cycle. There's probably some point where the universe stops expanding and starts shrinking to the point it crushes itself into a small dense ball, and then eventually explodes into another big bang, and this cycle occurs infinitely. An atom is one of many atoms, our solar system is one of many, our galaxy one of many, so it's likely our universe is one of many. Our universe and many other universes probably orbit something else we have no perception of. And these cycles are infinite.

Stars are born from matter in nebula, they shine bright, and then they die, its matter to be reborn again in something else. I think humans, animals, and plants exist in the same way. We come from the earth (water and minerals, or the water and minerals from plants/animals we eat), and are powered by the energy provided by the sun, and we will return to the earth when we die, where animals (worms and maggots etc) and plants will eat us just as we ate them.

Maybe, beyond our universe, there are other beings manipulating things, like scientists splitting the atom, and they have no idea where they themselves came from but are trying to figure it out just as we are. Maybe the big bang is like one of these scientists splitting the atom, with the energy of the universe being released in a giant explosion. We have no idea. As I said, we don't have all the answers, but we ask questions and figure out the nature of the universe and time/space slowly as we answer some of these questions. Maybe when I die I'll be proven wrong on all these things, and I'll visit God in the kingdom of heaven. or maybe i'll just be worm food.

[annatar1914]

Oooooh, I’ve misunderstood you?

Yes, and apparently you still have, ignoring the direct answers to the questions you asked me, demonstrating that you have no real interest in having a conversation about this particular theme in good faith.

So all that talk about traditionalist, conservative linear views of time

Did I say ''traditionalist''? Or ''conservative''? What do you think these things mean anyway in the context of this thread?

being so amazingly ‘radical’ that was a misunderstanding? Liberating and progressive I think were your exact words

So what exactly is your issue with what I said, or the words I truly used? You're not being very clear as to what you're problem is with this thread.

All that talk about the more pagan a view of time we accept, the closer to the end we are? I misunderstood that?

You've got it backwards, the cause and the effect. In the Monotheist concept of the End Times in the Abrahamic religions, the closer to the End we will be, by that time the more Godless the majority of mankind will have become.

I’ve misunderstood nothing and maintain that your assertion of monotheistic religions being bound to a linear view of time with the backing of scripture, to be one giant troll.

On what basis would you make that assertion? I did not mention any Monotheist scriptures yet did I? On the other hand, do you have evidence that the Monotheistic religions do not have a linear view of Time? This isn't about your feelings. You have been diverting and derailing this thread despite my plain attempts to engage you back into the real discussion, even if it meant answering your questions which have no real direct relevance to the issues at hand, along the way.

If this is going to be the way you go about things, please see yourself out of this thread. But if you're willing to discuss this thread's OP, then let's talk about it.

[annatar1914]

@Unthinking Majority , you said;

Well, if I don't agree with some of your assertions for athiestic or scientific reasons then I guess that's a derail and I have to go away.

Possibly. But I'm not sure you understand my original post, because you said;

I don't know the nature of time and the universe. But I disagree with you about the linear nature of time and the universe.

1. If you don't know the nature of time and the universe, then why do you assert in the next sentence that you disagree with me about the ''linear nature of time and the universe'', if you don't know the nature of time and the universe to begin with? Kind of hard to logically combine knowing and not knowing the one same thing at the same time.

2. Besides, this thread isn't directly about what I believe necessarily, it's a discussion about two different sets of beliefs about time and the historical ramifications of those two sets of belief...

[ness31]

@annatar1914

Now I understand Godstuds beef with you. It’s okay, I shan’t waste my time on you any longer.

Happy trolling

[annatar1914]

@annatar1914

Now I understand Godstuds beef with you. It’s okay, I shan’t waste my time on you any longer.

Happy trolling

@ness31 , he's got no ''beef'' with me that I'm aware of, and believe me the ''waste'' has been all mine. I tried, even answering your questions without a response. But that's fine, so long.

[Unthinking Majority]

Possibly. But I'm not sure you understand my original post, because you said;

1. If you don't know the nature of time and the universe, then why do you assert in the next sentence that you disagree with me about the ''linear nature of time and the universe'', if you don't know the nature of time and the universe to begin with? Kind of hard to logically combine knowing and not knowing the one same thing at the same time.

I made a guess. As far an I'm concerned, everyone is guessing in this thread. Nobody knows the nature of time and the universe. Religions have been predicting "the end of days" for a long time, and all of them that have come to pass have been wrong.

My view is closer to the non-Abrahamic religions with the theory of cyclical existences in terms of time/space, though I don't really think the soul is a part of that. I don't believe in karma or reincarnation or heaven. I'm more of a wet robot and worm food kind of guy. I hope i'm wrong since it would be nice to be immortal.

If you believe in an end of days and eternal salvation that's fine, it's not like I can provide any proof you're wrong.

[annatar1914]

@Unthinking Majority

I made a guess. As far an I'm concerned, everyone is guessing in this thread. Nobody knows the nature of time and the universe. Religions have been predicting "the end of days" for a long time, and all of them that have come to pass have been wrong.

That's not quite true either, but this isn't the thread to discuss that, and I have a feeling that you'd not want to endlessly quibble over the data either. One thing that is heavily predicted; this modern age. But anyway...

My view is closer to the non-Abrahamic religions with the theory of cyclical existences in terms of time/space, though I don't really think the soul is a part of that. I don't believe in karma or reincarnation or heaven. I'm more of a wet robot and worm food kind of guy. I hope i'm wrong since it would be nice to be immortal.

One thing you and I can at least claim to follow are the facts, but even those are tricky things, aren't they? Most people want immortality from God, which He grants them, even if it's the only thing they want from Him, which is unfortunate.

If you believe in an end of days and eternal salvation that's fine, it's not like I can provide any proof you're wrong.

Indeed, you can't, which I learned in my own Atheistical days. And the proofs I or any other Theist out there that might be convincing would fade, as Blaise Pascal once wrote, ''after about an hour''. Conviction of something comes from the heart, the will, not so much their servant the intellect.

So anyway, I want to have a discussion specifically about what I wrote about in this thread originally, if possible.