I reject, I affirm: raising the Red Flag the age of the Holy Spirit - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15259662
There was a time when I felt impelled to be rather reactionary in my thinking, and I mean politically rather than in the timeless and ever young Truths that I hold in my heart.

But like leaven in the dough, a fermentation occurred where I found myself increasingly on the Left end of the political spectrum in my opinions. Or rather my love of Truth rather than labels found me in this position. That is, the increasing concern for the future of humanity seasoned with held eschatological beliefs , a concern that the technological singularity approaching all mankind issuing forth from the hapless and heedless trajectory of Western Civilization would lead to our extinction. That the very meaning of what it is to be human will eventually be obliterated and the Machine would replace Mankind, embodying the Fallen Archangel and his devils in the Last Days. That the unsustainable praxis of Modernity will lead to near universal deception.

But what I want to focus on is the positive side of all this, as the world falls into two camps, much will also be clarified and refined, that an broad integral Humanism on Earth will here and there be animated by the Godly and true spiritual path. Love versus Power, Right being Might fighting against the darkness of sin and slavery and the spirit of Antichrist.

Everything and everyone of good will coming together and rejecting Satan and his works, producing a better way of living in justice in this world.
#15259703
So, you’ve turned a corner? :eh:

Will this ‘machine’ be thrown into the abyss or will it become animated by Gods Holy Spirit? Surely if it’s the latter we have single handedly solved the problem of what terrifies so many people about AI?

Shall I pop the champagne? :D
#15259710
@annatar1914 :

"So, you’ve turned a corner? :eh: "

Something has turned a corner, anyway, and that's the kind of thing I'll be talking about:

' what rough beast, it's hour come around at last, slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?'

"Will this ‘machine’ be thrown into the abyss or will it become animated by Gods Holy Spirit? Surely if it’s the latter we have single handedly solved the problem of what terrifies so many people about AI?

Shall I pop the champagne? :D"

Let's put it this way: if ever such wickedness as " true AI" was to be put before the public, the clerks and pontiffs of the Western world will somehow find a way to anoint It. It calls to mind the story of the" head" that Albertus Magnus created with his student Thomas of Aquino, or the proto computer of Raymond Lull....
#15259751
ness31 wrote:Oh dear, such negativity. Wickedness? Why wicked? Are we not made in Gods image? What’s your issue with man’s helper being made in his image? It’s a simple case of reverse engineering when you think about it ;)


@ness31 :

Implicit in such a view (and we are in the " Spirituality" section of PoFo after all) as mine is the anthropological calamity known as Sin, which vitiates the notion of the Machine (a technical item which forces nature to obey our wills, thus " Magick") and perverts both It and that which It effects. From Sin comes not only the attendant Will to Power of Man, but also the rationalization called by Max Weber " disenchantment", a Hallmark of Modernity which erodes the spirit and enslaves man to his own technics and the problems which arise from them.
#15259934
annatar1914 wrote:
But what I want to focus on is the positive side of all this, as the world falls into two camps, much will also be clarified and refined, that an broad integral Humanism on Earth will here and there be animated by the Godly and true spiritual path. Love versus Power, Right being Might fighting against the darkness of sin and slavery and the spirit of Antichrist.


annatar1914 wrote:
two camps



How about 'social constructivity vs. antisocial deleteriousness' -- ?


---


annatar1914 wrote:
Let's put it this way: if ever such wickedness as " true AI" was to be put before the public, the clerks and pontiffs of the Western world will somehow find a way to anoint It. It calls to mind the story of the" head" that Albertus Magnus created with his student Thomas of Aquino, or the proto computer of Raymond Lull....



*Close*...



In October 2017, Sophia was given Saudi Arabian citizenship, and became the first robot to receive citizenship of any country.[4][5]



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophia_(robot)



---


ness31 wrote:
Oh dear, such negativity. Wickedness? Why wicked? Are we not made in Gods image? What’s your issue with man’s helper being made in his image? It’s a simple case of reverse engineering when you think about it ;)



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_(franchise)


---


annatar1914 wrote:
@ness31 :

Implicit in such a view (and we are in the " Spirituality" section of PoFo after all) as mine is the anthropological calamity known as Sin, which vitiates the notion of the Machine (a technical item which forces nature to obey our wills, thus " Magick") and perverts both It and that which It effects. From Sin comes not only the attendant Will to Power of Man, but also the rationalization called by Max Weber " disenchantment", a Hallmark of Modernity which erodes the spirit and enslaves man to his own technics and the problems which arise from them.



Qatzel? Is that *you* -- ? (grin)
#15259940
Ever since Trump was elected, a lot of funny things have happened:

- The GOP supported economic protectionist policies that Democrats opposed
- Conservatives are getting deplatformed by big tech & big capital
- The Military Industrial Complex now flies rainbow flags
- The left is divided between more classically progressive, Marx-type thinkers & "lifestyle leftists"

This has given an opportunity for leftists to try to stay consistent about peace, capitalism, and free speech, not abandoning their original principles, and beginning to really criticize Biden.

It also was an invitation for conservatives to rethink their relationships with capitalism and expanionist foreign policy.

It is also the case that I feel increasingly alienated by liberal Christianity that I feel ceded huge swathes of the Bible... Which made me leave the reservation of normal Protestantism.

I've learned that, yes, the Bible certainly is pretty conclusive in terms of its socially conservative sexual ethos... And I should also probably never drink, never overeat, never be materialistic. This is suddenly more important to me...

And what's this about vegetarian monks? What exactly are they saying? What's this about the totally fallen world and not trusting it at all..? Surely, this means more skepticism towards governments ... and Big Capital?

... and Pacifism... Pacifism!

Suddenly conservatives no longer think of the US military as a vehicle of classic American power & interests. Suddenly their brain is no longer switching off & visions of crying bald eagles & WWII p0rn isn't flashing through their heads...

They see rainbow flags, crazy ass drone warfare... and, my word... Have we been fighting wars to benefit these same oligarchs who rig elections and want to kick us off social media & brainwash our kids..?

Suddenly, isolationism and pacifism seem necessary and we need to regulate business & be skeptical of all power...

Meanwhile, unprincipled leftists are OK with big capital that promotes their lifestyle, are less worried about censorship when the people in charge of it are angry gay POCs and not Christians, and they are absolutely sympathizing with all manner of warfare because the advance of Big Capital & NATO means the rainbow flag is going forward to.

We are ready for a new phase:

The post-left and the post-right who may differ radically in terms of lifestyle and how they want their individual community to be run, but agree on opposing globalism, censorship, megacorporations, and the military industrial complex.

We are both on the same page now: Liberal democracy is the mask that Western oligarchs war - AUX ARMES, LES CITOYENS!

Conservative Christians are ready to march with authentic far leftists, whether they are Communists or pacifist hippies, in opposition to "Blob" and the facade of democracy.

We are ready for something new - and we will build it respectfully with anyone who truly believes in liberty & decentralization, and will allow us to pursue our own separate community goals...

San Francisco liberals & Oklahoma conservatives can co-exist. But neither of us can co-exist with Wall Street & Hollywood using false conscience to get us to hate each other & directing all our resources to their slick sideshows & wars abroad.
#15259941
Verv wrote:
We are ready for something new - and we will build it respectfully with anyone who truly believes in liberty & decentralization, and will allow us to pursue our own separate community goals...

San Francisco liberals & Oklahoma conservatives can co-exist. But neither of us can co-exist with Wall Street & Hollywood using false conscience to get us to hate each other & directing all our resources to their slick sideshows & wars abroad.



*Matrix 4*, right -- ?


= D


(No objections.)
#15259955
Verv wrote:I've learned that, yes, the Bible certainly is pretty conclusive in terms of its socially conservative sexual ethos...

The Jews believed in Polygamy and sex slavery. From a Christian perspective the Jews were totally immoral until they started to be civilised first under Greek and then Roman influence. We inherited monogamy from the Greeks and Romans.

Judaism as established by Josiah was essentially a form of primitive Nazism, extreme racist, xenophobic, genocidal, expansionist, anti free speech, centralising, nationalism in which the liberty of the individual was subordinated to the primitive nation state. Everything modern people like about it actually came from Babylon, Zoroastrianism and Greco-Roman culture. Of course the Nazis themselves were full of lies. Semites have made huge contributions to our cultural development. The alphabet was probably created by the Caananites, the Jews main biological ancestors. But we owe very little if anything to the cult of Yahweh / Jehovah. ISIS can truly claim to practice the true spirit of that cult.
#15259958
Verv wrote:
I've learned that, yes, the Bible certainly is pretty conclusive in terms of its socially conservative sexual ethos... And I should also probably never drink, never overeat, never be materialistic. This is suddenly more important to me...



Less authoritarian-ly, and less-prescriptively we could just say it's the physical dynamic of 'What goes up must come down.' (As with *drugs* / indulgences.) (Biological / local-societal 'homeostasis', maybe, but certainly not for the *economy* since that would be Green-ism.)

Also:


ckaihatsu wrote:
I criticize *philosophy* / religion for being 'one-size-fits-all', and the *eugenics* mindset is *also* monolithically prescriptive, or *ideological*.



viewtopic.php?p=15259893#p15259893
#15260141
@ckaihatsu , @Rich , @Verv , @ness31 , and other contributors and friends posting on my other thread:

This is not a standard reply, not what I planned to begin the thread with, more of a subjective comment or intuition, which is the result of reading a particular story....

It comes from the Magian or Monotheistic complex of cultures. During the preparations for King Xerxes invasion of Greece, a storm threatened his ship. Persian nobles jumped overboard to save their king, not ordered to do so but silently bowing to their king and going over the railing. Alexander Herzen calls this the " Persian Thermopylae", grander and deeper of meaning.

And thinking of the Magi who faithfully followed the Star, who were from that same Persia, who went to pay obeisance to the true Shahinshah of All. Duty and Obedience. This is the cornerstone of the " Byzantinism" as Leontiev called it, which is so alien to the Romano-Germanic/Faustian West. Alien to what " Autocracy" is all about, Orthodoxy.

But didn't I speak before of freedom, and " Barbarism", when speaking of the Magi and other matters? Yes I did, and those are true under their proper aspects. Turns out there is no true universal " common good" republicanism as Orestes Brownson believed. It's all personal and private, human. Quite different than the understanding of the Western liberal bourgeoisie. As it turns out the charismatic rule of a " Despot", ruling by Divine signs and favors and anointing , is more favorable to Truth and the human condition than all this modern intellectual nonsense. That is, there is an element of what some would call a transcendental egoism, where the personal individual Soul is more important, and the next life more than this one, the battlefield of the cosmic war leading to paradise or perdition.

At an absolute Abyss from this worldview is that attitude exemplified by say, Carducci and his " Hymn to Satan", where Modernity and this world are what is important, material pleasures and desires...

Obedience. That's the starting point of this thread.
#15260157
Rich wrote:The Jews believed in Polygamy and sex slavery. From a Christian perspective the Jews were totally immoral until they started to be civilised first under Greek and then Roman influence. We inherited monogamy from the Greeks and Romans.

Judaism as established by Josiah was essentially a form of primitive Nazism, extreme racist, xenophobic, genocidal, expansionist, anti free speech, centralising, nationalism in which the liberty of the individual was subordinated to the primitive nation state. Everything modern people like about it actually came from Babylon, Zoroastrianism and Greco-Roman culture. Of course the Nazis themselves were full of lies. Semites have made huge contributions to our cultural development. The alphabet was probably created by the Caananites, the Jews main biological ancestors. But we owe very little if anything to the cult of Yahweh / Jehovah. ISIS can truly claim to practice the true spirit of that cult.


The Numbers 31 reference here... OK.

So, St. Maximos the Confessor talks about all these passages as having double meanings. There is the story on the surface, but always a deeper meaning. The Psalm about smashing the infants against the rocks (of Babylon) (Psalm 137:9) is actually about how one is happy to smash up the children of greater sins as they appear.

St. Maximos would say that the reference to marrying the virgins is to not throw the baby out with the bathwater, and to preserve whatever salvageable virtues are found in your old life. Perhaps you were a alcoholic pagan soldier, and you must destroy the part of you that was a pagan, that was an alcoholic, and that was doing violence for the secular world. But you should keep the soldier's discipline.

What does this mean in terms of the literal meaning?

There's dozens of other ways to handle this - conservative interpretations that preserve the original idea that God has ordered the deaths of Midianites, or liberal ones which regard the whole thing as a separate event that is non-reflective of the Christian heritage and was not authentically commanded by God. There are also moderate ones that treat it as a mystery: it had to happen because God foreknew the potential disasters that would occur had it not... Or perhaps the ultimate justice is always rendered and any before the age of conscience would be preserved, or perhaps even that i was understood in the context that boys before fighting age would be spared.

Regardless, as you pointed out, this episode is not reflective of Christian ethics.

Probably the thread should be polluted with this sort of content. It's obtuse & clumsy.
#15260159
ckaihatsu wrote:Less authoritarian-ly, and less-prescriptively we could just say it's the physical dynamic of 'What goes up must come down.' (As with *drugs* / indulgences.) (Biological / local-societal 'homeostasis', maybe, but certainly not for the *economy* since that would be Green-ism.)

Also:


I agree with this...

I have paid attention to a lot of your posts over the last few years and it is always impressive how thorough you can be. I do realize that we will just not exactly have the same perspective on these things but I really admire your academic & comprehensive treatment of subjects. It's just the case that we do not have the same exact values or criteria, and we look at different parts of the picture, and define justice and human needs a bit differently, etc... Lots of small differences that end up making us have very different looking end results.

But... I will emphasize that I the world is big enough for both of us, and I want to see you succeed because I think there's a lot to learn from your vision and methods. I'd love a scenario where we both respect that people here will try it in a more classic Marxist way, and people here will try it in a more classic Libertarian way, and there's a dozen other places where different experiments go through.

Vive le difference!

I am a mere student in these things... and I look fwd to reading more of your posts here & there, and regret that I did not give you a thorough answer you had about the factory question in another thread. I actually began answering it -- but I just didn't have the time to bring it to completion. I still think it's interesting. Kind of off topic and perhaps you do not remember the question, it was something like, what is the purpose of a factory or how should the profits of a factory be divided, and I am positive that my answer would be closer to your vision than it would be to that of a Libertarian... But it woudl also not be Marxist.
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