[Reichstraten]

Why I am now a Christian

Apparently Ayaan Hirsi Ali converted to christendom. She says that atheism does not “equip us for civilisational war”.
But I think her apocalypticism is one of the more negative aspects of the christian heritage. Thoughts?

[Potemkin]

Why I am now a Christian

Apparently Ayaan Hirsi Ali converted to christendom. She says that atheism does not “equip us for civilisational war”.
But I think her apocalypticism is one of the more negative aspects of the christian heritage. Thoughts?

Her ‘apocalypticism’ is not unique to her or to Christianity, but ultimately comes from Judaism. The word ‘apocalypse’ just means ‘revelation’, in which things are ‘brought to light’. Everything is revealed in an apocalypse, which means that nothing can continue as it did before. And that’s all it means.

As for her reasons for returning to some form of religious faith, I think it makes sense from her personal and political perspective. As I have repeatedly said on PoFo before, most people are going to worship something; if it’s not God, then it’s going to be money, or fame, or even just their own ego. As Nietzsche pointed out, the air is thin at the summit of Zarathustra’s mountaintop, and few people can breathe up there.

[Reichstraten]

The apocalyptic revelation she adheres to is the neocon worldview of the “clash of civilizations” propagated by Samuel Huntington and still hugely popular among right wingers. In a complicated world people seek refuge in simple theories like this one. Secularism makes us weak, we no longer belief in our values, the Islam has more virility, they’re outbreeding us, etc. You know the riddle. I have a hard time seeing any real strenght in this kind of (moral) panic on the right, to be honest. They see secularism as a process of decline of western civilization, while philosophers like Michael Allen Gillespie, Charles Taylor and Gianni Vattimo see it as an continuation and even fulfillment of christianity. What I think is the correct view on the matter. Christians should embrace secularism, or even postmodernism, as an achievement and not reject it as a downfall.

[Potemkin]

The apocalyptic revelation she adheres to is the neocon worldview of the “clash of civilizations” propagated by Samuel Huntington and still hugely popular among right wingers. In a complicated world people seek refuge in simple theories like this one. Secularism makes us weak, we no longer belief in our values, the Islam has more virility, they’re outbreeding us, etc. You know the riddle. I have a hard time seeing any real strenght in this kind of (moral) panic on the right, to be honest. They see secularism as a process of decline of western civilization, while philosophers like Michael Allen Gillespie, Charles Taylor and Gianni Vattimo see it as an continuation and even fulfillment of christianity. What I think is the correct view on the matter. Christians should embrace secularism, or even postmodernism, as an achievement and not reject it as a downfall.

Secularism was made possible by Christianity, and in that respect can be regarded as an ‘achievement’ of Christianity, but it’s not an achievement they wanted or can feel proud of. They can’t be blamed for resisting it. No-one wants to go gentle into that good night….

[Saeko]

Why I am now a Christian

Apparently Ayaan Hirsi Ali converted to christendom. She says that atheism does not “equip us for civilisational war”.
But I think her apocalypticism is one of the more negative aspects of the christian heritage. Thoughts?

Apocalypticism is central to the Christian faith, so that tracks.

[Potemkin]

Apocalypticism is central to the Christian faith, so that tracks.

Is ‘apocalypticism’ even a word?

[Saeko]

Is ‘apocalypticism’ even a word?

Yes.

[Potemkin]

Yes.

Thanks to this thread, I have just learned a new word. Thank you everyone.

[annatar1914]

Apocalypticism is indeed an integral part of the Christian Faith. A " Revealing" that conceals it's truth from the wicked, unstable, and the unwise, but provides enlightenment and hopeful courage to the wise and righteous.

As such it surely takes a lifelong effort of Scripture reading, commentaries from the Fathers, prayer and fasting and humility, to fully grasp. It's not some kind of occult or hermetic teaching in symbols, but requires a level of spiritual maturity to more fully understand.

So of course it centers upon Jesus Christ, and unfolds from Him and illuminates everything else , the Word of God revealed by the Word of God.

Does this convert desire some confrontation with Islam? To what church did they convert to?

I'd rather that they perhaps focus more on their salvation than what concerns the world so much. And this is more true of myself and everyone really.

[Potemkin]

Apocalypticism is indeed an integral part of the Christian Faith. A " Revealing" that conceals it's truth from the wicked, unstable, and the unwise, but provides enlightenment and hopeful courage to the wise and righteous.

As such it surely takes a lifelong effort of Scripture reading, commentaries from the Fathers, prayer and fasting and humility, to fully grasp. It's not some kind of occult or hermetic teaching in symbols, but requires a level of spiritual maturity to more fully understand.

So of course it centers upon Jesus Christ, and unfolds from Him and illuminates everything else , the Word of God revealed by the Word of God.

Does this convert desire some confrontation with Islam? To what church did they convert to?

I'd rather that they perhaps focus more on their salvation than what concerns the world so much. And this is more true of myself and everyone really.

She has clearly harnessed religion to politics - like many religious people, she seems to want God to serve her own political agenda. She wants God to be on her side. But who is God, that he must pick a side? Is God her servant, that he must do her bidding?

[Reichstraten]

Secularism was made possible by Christianity, and in that respect can be regarded as an ‘achievement’ of Christianity, but it’s not an achievement they wanted or can feel proud of.

“They” is a bit vague, because there are many different sorts of christians. Struggle between orthodox christians and liberal christians continues tot his day.

They can’t be blamed for resisting it. No-one wants to go gentle into that good night….

Why not? What if their views have real-life consequenses? Threatening secular achievements and going “back” in one way or another?

[annatar1914]

She has clearly harnessed religion to politics - like many religious people, she seems to want God to serve her own political agenda. She wants God to be on her side. But who is God, that he must pick a side? Is God her servant, that he must do her bidding?

@Potemkin :

Good question my friend, for in the Islam which she " left" there is absolutely no defining line between sacred and profane, spiritual and earthly, political and religious. No intermediate age for" rendering unto Caesar what is Caesars and unto God what is God's" at all.

Thus it appears that she has in a way retained this confusion and must have likely become a Papist....This confusion is also a hallmark of the the birth of the Papacy after the Donation of Pepin when the Bishops of Old Rome accepted the temporal rule and possession of a goodly chunk of central Italy. In Dostoevsky's language: " joined him and picked up the sword of Caesar".

I see it as a sign that those days will be revived in Europe, and then some. Muslims worldwide, even ex Muslims, have a knack for sensing power relationships whether fully alive or just potential or quiescent.

[Reichstraten]

I see it as a sign that those days will be revived in Europe, and then some. Muslims worldwide, even ex Muslims, have a knack for sensing power relationships whether fully alive or just potential or quiescent.

Why do you think this? Are muslims obsessed with power relationships?

[annatar1914]

Why do you think this? Are muslims obsessed with power relationships?

@Reichstraten :

If you look at Islamic societies from their beginning, historically there is an awareness of the population (not obsession) of where and with who the true power lays with.

It came as a consequence of dynasties following dynasty, and slave soldiers ruling through the shadowiest of figureheads for centuries.

Reading Ibn Khaldun is instructional in providing some further light on the subject:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Khaldun

In any case, it's just a fact that they are more in tune than most in the ways of the world, with a political realism most Westerners do not tend to develop because it isn't seen particularly as a necessity.

Anyway, Ali is a person who is going to understand this, (and obviously to myself)is going to advocate for a revival of the Papacy as the core institution of Western Civilization to combat the revival of Islam.

[Reichstraten]

@annatar1914,

How do you then view modern theorists on power, like Max Weber, Gramsci? How are muslims going to get cultural hegemony in the west in the future? How will that look like?

[Reichstraten]

So far I can’t find any information on which branch of christendom she belongs to now.
Her husband is British historian Niall Ferguson, who according to wikipedia “… was brought up as—and remains—an atheist, though he has encouraged his children to study religion and attends church occasionally.” So it could bet he Church of England.

[annatar1914]

@annatar1914,

How do you then view modern theorists on power, like Max Weber, Gramsci? How are muslims going to get cultural hegemony in the west in the future? How will that look like?

@Reichstraten :

I don't think that they can improve or refine much on Ibn Khaldun, or Scripture on the matter.

Muslims, if they get cultural hegemony it's because they'll outnumber everyone else, demographic and thus political hegemony.

I personally think though that it'll induce a response from the West that will change the equation.

An ugly and twisted response, but a response. Otherwise if not, then Islam will rule Europe and the majority of it's inhabitants will be Muslims.

[Reichstraten]

@annatar1914,

If the ruling ideas are the ideas of the ruling class, then muslims will first have to become part of the ruling class to gain cultural hegemony. Do you agree? Numbers does not per se equal power.

[ingliz]

@Reichstraten

"numbers"

Numbers are power in an FPTP representative democracy with universal suffrage. It's an elective dictatorship.

[Reichstraten]

@ingliz,

If only muslims were a bit better in organizing themselves politically.