[colliric]

"Senator Karen"

Yep pretty much.

[Unthinking Majority]

"Freeloading" by spearheading US tech innovation while China rapes American IT for geopolitical dominance while dedicating the sum of his fortune to saving the fucking planet and human race?

Seems like he is paying his taxes, but if there's any human being who could spend his own money better than the government can it's Elon Musk. Like would you rather have Musk or NASA invest a billion dollars in space R&D? Maybe the gov can go waste a few billion more on bombing Arabs and paying unemployed people to stay unemployed.

[colliric]

Remember when Obama killed the idea of NASA going back to the moon?

I do.

What a selfish prick. That would have been great for humanity. You've got to go back. Regular missions there and the scientific research is totally worth the price, just as it was for the ISS.

Musk, Branson and Bezos will be doing it instead. They have to now.

[Rugoz]

Remember when Obama killed the idea of NASA going back to the moon?

For good reason. That $230bn constellation program was bloated, over budget and behind schedule. The Obama admin then initiated commercial crew, without which SpaceX wouldn't be capable of offering a Moon landing today.

[pugsville]

https://twitter.com/SenWarren/status/1470415896053227522?t=-OVeD4GqK_NTAs3x3NLXZw&s=19





"Senator Karen"

Yep pretty much.

Still does not change the fact she does not generally pay tax.

Debate by memes and snappy comebacks rather than any substance.

[JohnRawls]

https://twitter.com/SenWarren/status/1470415896053227522?t=-OVeD4GqK_NTAs3x3NLXZw&s=19





"Senator Karen"

Yep pretty much.

Warren is an interesting person actually. She was one of the very few that actually managed to produce financial reform after the financial crisis in opposition to both Ds and Rs in mass. She wanted to go further to rain in the banks and financial institutions but was basically blocked by big money interest. It doesn't change the fact that big banks and financial institutions are kinda scared shitless of her due to those reforms.

So Musk having a go at her is kind of understandable. But also a bit inappropriate, as she was one of the few people who did something to prevent another 2008 and attempted to jail the bankers. Ofcourse her reforms are being slowly watered down and removed by the said institutions and people like Elon.

[pugsville]

Musk does not pay income tax despite living a lasvish lifestyle with plenty of money. He maintains a effective legal fiction that he does not technically get income.

He;s powerful enough to do this. Tax is optional for the very rich. He has chosen to not contribute to the society that maintains his lavish lifestyle.

he's an arsehole.

He could just draw and income and pay tax. It would be so insignificant he woudl not notice. But he chooses not to he moves his income into soem other legal category so it not legal income. It's just a trick so he does not pay conventional income tax. But the money he revives is really his income.

fr him the principle of freeloading, refuses ty pay tax is important enough to do rather than contribute a tiny amount of his wealth to the common good , without which he'd have nothing at all,

It pretty common for almost all rich people. The rules are not strong enough to stop their various legal tricks and slight of hands.

[late]

Remember when Obama killed the idea of NASA going back to the moon?

I do.

What a selfish prick. That would have been great for humanity. You've got to go back. Regular missions there and the scientific research is totally worth the price, just as it was for the ISS.

Musk, Branson and Bezos will be doing it instead. They have to now.

There is so much stupid in this thread, I don't know where to start.

Bush2 was not serious about going back to the Moon. In addition, the first time was an historic achievement, going back just to go back would be a stunt. Nothing more.

On the laughable possibility you care, the next step on the Moon is building a base, to develop mining, and eventually start prep work for a station at L5.

[JohnRawls]

Musk does not pay income tax despite living a lasvish lifestyle with plenty of money. He maintains a effective legal fiction that he does not technically get income.

He;s powerful enough to do this. Tax is optional for the very rich. He has chosen to not contribute to the society that maintains his lavish lifestyle.

he's an arsehole.

He could just draw and income and pay tax. It would be so insignificant he woudl not notice. But he chooses not to he moves his income into soem other legal category so it not legal income. It's just a trick so he does not pay conventional income tax. But the money he revives is really his income.

fr him the principle of freeloading, refuses ty pay tax is important enough to do rather than contribute a tiny amount of his wealth to the common good , without which he'd have nothing at all,

It pretty common for almost all rich people. The rules are not strong enough to stop their various legal tricks and slight of hands.

It is not possible to liquidate Musks assets without causing significant harm to his own company, workers and so on. You can't just sell a large chunk of Tesla or any other big company without having financial repercussions for the company. This becomes a bigger problem when the company grows larger and larger. The only massive company owner that created a company from 0 who managed to deversify how you want is Bill Gates. Nobody else could really do it. And the reason that Bill Gates was able to do it is because he basically gave Buffet management who is already a pretty skilled person at this in the first place. This also didn't happen over night and took YEARS.

[late]

It is not possible to liquidate Musks assets without causing significant harm to his own company, workers and so on. You can't just sell a large chunk of Tesla or any other big company without having financial repercussions for the company. This becomes a bigger problem when the company grows larger and larger. The only massive company owner that created a company from 0 who managed to deversify how you want is Bill Gates. Nobody else could really do it. And the reason that Bill Gates was able to do it is because he basically gave Buffet management who is already a pretty skilled person at this in the first place. This also didn't happen over night and took YEARS.

Warren's plan would work..

[pugsville]

It is not possible to liquidate Musks assets without causing significant harm to his own company, workers and so on. You can't just sell a large chunk of Tesla or any other big company without having financial repercussions for the company. This becomes a bigger problem when the company grows larger and larger. The only massive company owner that created a company from 0 who managed to deversify how you want is Bill Gates. Nobody else could really do it. And the reason that Bill Gates was able to do it is because he basically gave Buffet management who is already a pretty skilled person at this in the first place. This also didn't happen over night and took YEARS.

Simply not true, He could just draw a wage. The idea that Musk paying a small count of tax would cause vast economic collapse is Pifffle,
Oh boo hoo poor little billionaire.

He;s structured his affair so technical he has no income. Should he and other rich people be allowed to simply aboid paying income tax through various legal dodges?


Mucj structured things this way. He coudl just as easiely structure tham so he drew a wage and paid tax. Teh small amnount of moeney involved would have no impact on the Telse company. This whoel line of argument is irrelevant fluff.

Musk does not want to pay tax so he arranges his affairs so he does not. A lot of rich people do,

[Unthinking Majority]

Musk does not pay income tax despite living a lasvish lifestyle with plenty of money. He maintains a effective legal fiction that he does not technically get income.

He;s powerful enough to do this. Tax is optional for the very rich. He has chosen to not contribute to the society that maintains his lavish lifestyle.

he's an arsehole.

He plays within the laws to pay as little taxes as possible in order to keep more of the money he's earned, which is exactly what you and I do. He isn't an asshole, he's just a rational actor and not an idiot. He's not a charity. If the government doesn't like the rules then change the rules. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

You're an asshole for resenting someone for doing exactly what you do, and exactly what you'd do in his situation.

This man is trying to save the fucking planet and the human species. All of these people haven't invested in his companies because his business fundamentals are sound and he makes gobs of profit like Bezos, they've invested because his technologies are a long-game bet to transform the human species and the planet for the better and people believe in him and his mission. Listen to the man speak for 2 minutes and you'd know that his modus operandi isn't to get richer, he's trying to save the damn species.

This man doesn't spend his days relaxing on his yatch. He works harder than every single person on this forum. He doesn't have time to post on forums, he barely has time to tweet 10 words several times a week while he takes a shit. He's slept on the concrete floor of one of his factories because he doesn't have time to go home and sleep. You had damn hope he takes every penny he saves in taxes and uses it to succeed in his missions.

To sit there and say that "he doesn't contribute to society" is such a horrifically ignorant thing to say its beyond words. If you can find another human being on this planet that contributes more to society than Elon Musk i'd love to hear that name, because it doesn't exist.

[pugsville]

He plays within the laws to pay as little taxes as possible in order to keep more of the money he's earned, which is exactly what you and I do.

It;s not what I do.

He isn't an asshole, he's just a rational actor and not an idiot. He's not a charity. If the government doesn't like the rules then change the rules. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

I don't hate him, the problem is the politicians take Money from rich people and write the laws to benefit the rich. That's what this threads is about. Changing the rules so people are treated somewhat equally.

You're an asshole for resenting someone for doing exactly what you do, and exactly what you'd do in his situation.

I woudl not.

This man is trying to save the fucking planet and the human species.

Oh please not paying tax will save the planet. Hyperbolic piffle. Bongwater of the dirtiest sort. God King sof ancient Egypt went with that bulldust it vert tired line of bull.

All of these people haven't invested in his companies because his business fundamentals are sound and he makes gobs of profit like Bezos, they've invested because his technologies are a long-game bet to transform the human species and the planet for the better and people believe in him and his mission. Listen to the man speak for 2 minutes and you'd know that his modus operandi isn't to get richer, he's trying to save the damn species.

Juts bull. Just because the rich believe them being rich is good for everyone does not make it true. These people are businessmen and predominately they make money form market manipulation rather than actually doing anything useful, others actually do the work.

This man doesn't spend his days relaxing on his yatch. He works harder than every single person on this forum. He doesn't have time to post on forums, he barely has time to tweet 10 words several times a week while he takes a shit. He's slept on the concrete floor of one of his factories because he doesn't have time to go home and sleep. You had damn hope he takes every penny he saves in taxes and uses it to succeed in his missions.

You have followed Musk around personally or just believe every word of bull out of his mouth? Rich people work hard. Pffrtt. They do not know what work is.

The Study of History has taught me one thing there is no privilege class that ever has a problem justifying that privilege and how it's to everyone;s benefit that they have the privilege including those at the bottom.

It's a lie.

To sit there and say that "he doesn't contribute to society" is such a horrifically ignorant thing to say its beyond words. If you can find another human being on this planet that contributes more to society than Elon Musk i'd love to hear that name, because it doesn't exist.

Rich people are rich because they get more form society than they contribute. Musk enjoys a lavish lifestyle;e because others work hard to make it so. He's one those at the top o the pyramid who relies and countless others working below to generate the excess that he and others enjoy.

And he declines to pay even a modest amount of tax., He's an arsehole.



Bottom Line should the tax system be fair and treat everyone equally? The Currently accepted principle of taxation of income is people pay something proportional to their income. The Rich generally don't as they have many ways of manipulating the system. Musk is just one very prominent example. Warren called him out and was proposing we change the laws to be more equitable.

The subject is the game not the player, the proposal is try and fix the system, not just go after Musk, but a system which more fairly reflects the principle.

The Arguments raised here are complete bong water. That there should be a tick box of the tax forms , are you saving the planet , if you tick it you donlt pay tax, Did you work really hard, if you tick it you don't have to pay tax.

Piffle.


Should the tax system be fair, Should the rich pay tax proportionate to their income? That is the question. All this guff how about how Musk is such a great guy we should all just shut up and support his lavish lifestyle is just hooky Egyptian god King backwards thinking for people whose heads have zipper up the back.

[Rancid]

Fuck both of them.

[Rugoz]

Musk will pay billions of taxes this year. Income and capital gains tax.
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/12/15/inve ... index.html

Billionaires obviously don't need a steady yearly income.

Musk is not exactly the best target for such rhetoric. Both Tesla and SpaceX were enterprises that many considered doomed from the start. At least he took some risks.

[Truth To Power]

Musk does not pay income tax despite living a lasvish lifestyle with plenty of money. He maintains a effective legal fiction that he does not technically get income.

He;s powerful enough to do this. Tax is optional for the very rich. He has chosen to not contribute to the society that maintains his lavish lifestyle.

Musk certainly seems to have plenty of money, but I don't see any evidence that his lifestyle is especially lavish. He doesn't seem to go in for the mansions, 100m yachts, private 787s, etc., like Bezos and some others. He's too busy working.

It pretty common for almost all rich people. The rules are not strong enough to stop their various legal tricks and slight of hands.

The current US tax system certainly enables the greedy, privileged, parasitic rich to pay almost no tax. It's not clear that Musk paying more tax would actually do anything to fix that problem.

[Truth To Power]

Both Tesla and SpaceX were enterprises that many considered doomed from the start. At least he took some risks.

Unfortunately, Tesla has become one of the biggest financial bubbles in history, which is absolutely certain to end badly for those who have bought shares near the peak. We just don't know when it's going to pop. The ongoing crypto crash may be a harbinger.

[Rugoz]

Unfortunately, Tesla has become one of the biggest financial bubbles in history, which is absolutely certain to end badly for those who have bought shares near the peak. We just don't know when it's going to pop. The ongoing crypto crash may be a harbinger.

Even if Tesla's market cap drops by 90%, that still puts it among the most valuable car companies. Point is, people expected cars and rockets to be the playground of large corporations with deep pockets.

[colliric]

Unfortunately, Tesla has become one of the biggest financial bubbles in history, which is absolutely certain to end badly for those who have bought shares near the peak. We just don't know when it's going to pop. The ongoing crypto crash may be a harbinger.

The Cryptocurrency market has not crashed, it has retreated from its All Time High as usual.

Tesla is not a financial bubble, only it's current stock price is. The company has good solid fundamentals.

[Fasces]

Musk does not pay income tax despite living a lasvish lifestyle with plenty of money. He maintains a effective legal fiction that he does not technically get income.

He;s powerful enough to do this. Tax is optional for the very rich. He has chosen to not contribute to the society that maintains his lavish lifestyle.

he's an arsehole.

Precisely this. He's an anti-union son of apartheid emerald miners that was born with a silver spoon so far down his gullet it came out the other end.

Fuck him and his whining.

And for all the whining about Tech barons ruining America, a guy smoking a single joint with Joe Rogan and trolling on twitter and the alt-right here drop to their knees in worship of the tech oligarch. No consistency, SAD.