[skinster]

Glory to the resistance against Israeli terrorists:

The airdrops and the establishment of the maritime route from Cyprus say otherwise.

No they don't. Stop lying.

Even The Guardian of all outlets understood clearly that Hamas was using those civilians as human shields. Your stupid attempt to change the meanings of terms won't work.

It's not that I'm changing the words, it's just that you're full of shit and I called you out on it.

This is getting boring but it is not surprising.

Yes, it must be difficult for you to be outed as a disingenuous prick and compulsive liar.

It's funny to read this coming from someone who supports Hamas' massacre of October 7, including its mass rapes.

I support the Palestinian resistance factions in their revolutionary act of October 7th which I know for a fact history will absolve. It already is. Normalisation with Arab states is waning because of it, which was one of the resistance's objectives, as well as putting the Palestinian oppression back on the world's stage, which has been reached by Western governments talking about a Palestinian state again.

The mass rapes atrocity propaganda that you keep lying about never happened. Zionists just lie as they breathe and this is increasingly being seen by others here about you. Your rape fantasies are merely your own problem. Maybe you should see a doctor about them instead of projecting them onto others.

I mean, the mere fact that not a single released Israeli hostage has said they were raped also shows that the resistance were not interested in doing what Israelis do to Palestinians.

It is also funny to read this when anyone with even a cursory knowledge of the history of the conflict is aware that the Palestinian extremists had been doing this kind of thing long before Israel's establishment.

No they're haven't. You're just a liar in service to the genocidal racist state and you project its crimes onto its victims like a good little nazi.

By the way, terrorists are legitimate targets just like all fighters are.

And precisely why I support the resistance act of Oct 7th.

I already provided you with one.

So you can't prove "The Grayzone is funded by the Kremlin." I already knew this, just wanted you to demonstrate it because I know for a fact that this claim is bullshit and anyone who has accused that media org of that has never been able to prove it. Because it is a lie. Because they can't attack the reporting, they make up bullshit like this which hasbara trolls like you regurgitate because this media org has already done a tremendous job in showing the mass rape claims that you keep lying about, were bullshit, typical Israeli hasbara.

Am I to believe people like Max Blumenthal were invited by the Russian government for free?

Who cares what you believe. If you don't have evidence for this dumb claim, you should probably just shut up about it, rather than digging an even bigger hole for yourself.

You can always check the citations by the way.

This is not how you prove your dumb claims. The truth is, you can't. Because they're lies. Because that is what you do. Over and over again. In service to the genocidal state. And are very likely getting paid for it, considering you spend your entire life on this forum trying to convince Israel is good, when it is a turd one can never polish..

Do you want to check a war map?

This is how you deal with me asking for a source for another claim of yours? Thanks for showing people who might be on the fence, reading this, how full of shit you are.

And Israel is occupying Gaza and has been since 1967. This was confirmed in the ICJ's report on the genocidal state. Not a single piece of Palestinian is not occupied by Israel. It's why the UN refers to Gaza and the West Bank as the OPT (Occupied Palestinian Territories), and we know how much you love the UN...

When you lie about stuff that is so obviously provable, such as the idea that Gaza is occupied, you suck at your job as a hasbara troll because it'll make them question everything you say. Which, by the way, they should, since you are full of shit and genocidal shit at that. Nice life you got going there, wat0n. I hope it pays well.

[wat0n]

No they don't. Stop lying.

Sounds like babycrying.

It's not that I'm changing the words, it's just that you're full of shit and I called you out on it.

Yes, you are.

Even The Guardian was able to call a spade a spade.

Yes, it must be difficult for you to be outed as a disingenuous prick and compulsive liar.

Sure rape apologist.

I support the Palestinian resistance factions in their revolutionary act of October 7th which I know for a fact history will absolve. It already is. Normalisation with Arab states is waning because of it, which was one of the resistance's objectives, as well as putting the Palestinian oppression back on the world's stage, which has been reached by Western governments talking about a Palestinian state again.

The mass rapes atrocity propaganda that you keep lying about never happened. Zionists just lie as they breathe and this is increasingly being seen by others here about you. Your rape fantasies are merely your own problem. Maybe you should see a doctor about them instead of projecting them onto others.

I mean, the mere fact that not a single released Israeli hostage has said they were raped also shows that the resistance were not interested in doing what Israelis do to Palestinians.

Yes, you support massacres against civilians, even when killings are filmed.

And you of course support mass rape too, nothing surprising or strange here.

No they're haven't. You're just a liar in service to the genocidal racist state and you project its crimes onto its victims like a good little nazi.

More babycrying, even you know about e.g. the massacre and ethnic cleansing of the Jewish community of Hebron in 1929.

And precisely why I support the resistance act of Oct 7th.

Grannys are not fighters.

Surrendering civilians are not fighters, and yes there is footage of surrendering civilians being executed.

Even executing fighters who have surrendered is a crime.

So you can't prove "The Grayzone is funded by the Kremlin." I already knew this, just wanted you to demonstrate it because I know for a fact that this claim is bullshit and anyone who has accused that media org of that has never been able to prove it. Because it is a lie. Because they can't attack the reporting, they make up bullshit like this which hasbara trolls like you regurgitate because this media org has already done a tremendous job in showing the mass rape claims that you keep lying about, were bullshit, typical Israeli hasbara.

Who cares what you believe. If you don't have evidence for this dumb claim, you should probably just shut up about it, rather than digging an even bigger hole for yourself.

It's interesting, you were disregarding a hostage's testimony of the sexual abuse of other hostages alleging she was paid but I am somehow supposed to believe Max Blumenthal's trip to the UN Security Council was not funded by the Russian government.

This is not how you prove your dumb claims. The truth is, you can't. Because they're lies. Because that is what you do. Over and over again. In service to the genocidal state. And are very likely getting paid for it, considering you spend your entire life on this forum trying to convince Israel is good, when it is a turd one can never polish..

Too bad this comes from the Russian Foreign Ministry, you do sound upset.

This is how you deal with me asking for a source for another claim of yours? Thanks for showing people who might be on the fence, reading this, how full of shit you are.

And Israel is occupying Gaza and has been since 1967. This was confirmed in the ICJ's report on the genocidal state. Not a single piece of Palestinian is not occupied by Israel. It's why the UN refers to Gaza and the West Bank as the OPT (Occupied Palestinian Territories), and we know how much you love the UN...

When you lie about stuff that is so obviously provable, such as the idea that Gaza is occupied, you suck at your job as a hasbara troll because it'll make them question everything you say. Which, by the way, they should, since you are full of shit and genocidal shit at that. Nice life you got going there, wat0n. I hope it pays well.

The report is from 2004, before Israel left Gaza in 2005.

How can Israel occupy Gaza yet be unable (in your words) to directly control territory there?

[skinster]

The hasbara troll got tired.

Anyway..

On Non-Violent Resistance
The Israeli-Palestinian conflict (for lack of a better term) did not start on 7 October 2023, and the willingness of Palestinian armed groups to use violence is not the only obstacle to peace. At the heart of this intractable tragedy is the inability of a colonial and occupying power (and its enablers) to accept a people’s rejection of their subjugation and their determination to fight against it. Whatever form this resistance has taken – and it includes a long history of non-violence and civil disobedience as well as armed struggle – Israel has responded with a disproportionate use of force and disregard for the human toll.

The Western media has all too often focused on the Palestinian armed struggle, from Black September to the PLO’s armed presence in Lebanon, the suicide of bombings of the late 1990s and early 2000s, the Second Intifada and Hamas’s more recent missile attacks on Israel. Often completely ignored, however, is that from the beginning, non-violent resistance has been central to the Palestinians’ struggle for freedom.

In 1972, the Palestine National Council decided that the locus of the struggle for Palestinian self-determination should include the West Bank and Gaza Strip. By the following year, the Palestine National Front (PNF), an autonomous clandestine umbrella organisation, had emerged in the occupied territories. Its main tasks included co-ordinating non-violent strikes and demonstrations throughout the West Bank and Gaza Strip to protest against Israeli rule and to reaffirm Palestinian demands for self-representation.

Israel responded with such measures as house demolitions, curfews, deportations and administrative detention (incarceration without trial or charge), forms of collective punishment which became everyday features of the military occupation. After occupying the West Bank and Gaza Strip in 1967, Israel banned any overt symbol of Palestinian nationalism, including flags and maps.

In 1976, municipal elections in the West Bank were won by nationalist mayoral candidates, against opponents who had been selected by the Israeli military administration. Along with journalists, union organisers, and the leaders of students’ and women’s groups, the new mayors established the National Guidance Committee in 1978. The NGC’s main objectives were to protest against the Egyptian-Israeli Camp David Accords, as well as any Israeli-appointed bodies that sought to control Palestinians in the occupied territories, and to demand self-determination. Again, protest was expressed through co-ordinated non-violent strikes and demonstrations.

Within a few years, Israel outlawed the NGC and arrested or deported key organisers, and put most of the nationalist mayors they had not deported under town arrest. In 1980 Israeli extremists attacked the mayors of Ramallah and Nablus with car bombs, severely injuring both men. The perpetrators received light jail terms and some were eventually acquitted of all charges. In 1982 the Palestinian mayors were removed from office and replaced by appointees of the Israeli civil administration.

By the early 1980s, all factions of the Palestine Liberation Organisation had established grassroots structures throughout the West Bank and Gaza Strip. The volunteer-based organisations included trade unions, student groups and women’s groups. Israel targeted the representatives of these institutions, placing many of them under ‘administrative detention,’ and the routine intimidation and humiliation extended to the participants in these mass-based organisations.

Israel also targeted Palestine’s advocates for non-violence resistance. In 1983, for example, Mubarak Awad, sometimes known as ‘the Palestinian Gandhi’, established the Palestinian Centre for the Study of Non-Violence. He wrote the twelve-page blueprint for passive resistance in the territories. In 1988, Israel deported Awad on charges of inciting a civil uprising.

When the First Intifada broke out in December 1987, the collective decision to refrain from the use of violence – stone-throwing aside – was strategic. In the first weeks of co-ordinated mass upheaval and civil disobedience, an array of local popular committees were organised throughout the West Bank and Gaza Strip that would sustain and strengthen the Intifada. The committees were responsible for such tasks as preparing for emergencies, cultivating self-sufficiency (including home-schooling for children) and night-time security patrols, as well as organising the daily activities of the Intifada: strikes, demonstrations, boycotts of Israeli products and non-payment of taxes.

In response, the Israeli military confronted unarmed protesters with live ammunition, jailed or deported organisers, imposed curfews, cut off water, electricity and fuel supplies, demolished houses, closed schools for months on end and shut universities for three years. By the time Israel and the PLO signed the Declaration of Principles that began the Oslo Process in September 1993, Israel had killed more than 1070 Palestinians (almost all unarmed) and imprisoned over 120,000 (according to B’Tselem figures). No family was spared the collective punishment. Forty-seven Israeli civilians were killed during the Intifada.

In 2005, Palestinian civil society called for a boycott, divestment and sanctions (BDS) campaign against Israel until it complied with international law and universal principles of human rights. The non-violent movement has gained a sizeable international following. The Israeli parliament passed a draconian law in 2011 that would punish any Israeli who boycotted any of its institutions or economic enterprises. In the United States, 38 states have so far passed some kind of anti-BDS legislation.

In March 2018, Palestinians in the Gaza Strip began the Great March of Return to demand the end of the Israeli blockade and the right of return for refugees. The protests were largely non-violent, but the Israeli military ordered that anyone – including unarmed protesters, bystanders, journalists and medical staff – who came within a few hundred metres of the Israel-Gaza separation barrier be shot. According to UN figures, by 22 March 2019 Israel had killed 195 Palestinians (including 41 children) and injured approximately 29,000 people.

Although they seldom make international headlines, Palestinian history is full of episodes of non-violent resistance to Israel’s military occupation. Israel’s response has routinely been disproportionate, and the overwhelming majority of those injured or killed have been on one side – the side that does not matter to Western governments. Between 2009 and September 2023, Israel killed 6407 Palestinians and injured 152,560, compared to 308 Israelis killed and 6307 injured by Palestinians (according to UN figures). On 7 October, Hamas killed 1200 Israelis. Since then, Israel has killed over 11,400 Palestinians, most of them civilians and more than a third children, through indiscriminate bombing campaigns, in collective punishment for crimes they did not commit.
https://www.lrb.co.uk/blog/2023/novembe ... resistance?

tl;dr - Israelis, on Oct 7, were spoken to in the only language they understand.

[wat0n]

Still ignoring the massacres and ethnic cleansing prior to 1948. It's interesting, Zionist terrorists like the Irgun and Lehi would have said something similar. So does the Likud from time to time.

[skinster]

[QatzelOk]

...The airdrops and the establishment of the maritime route from Cyprus say otherwise...

Yes, these "good cop" memes say a lot, don't they.

They say "We, the 1%, can commit any atrocity we want because we control commercial media AND we've used it to create a dumbed-down population that admires tyrants and hates their victims."

► Show Spoiler

Remember when Gay President Truman had thousands of band-aids shipped to Hiroshima a few days before it was nuked? Wasn't that great PR. It convinced the Japanese that the Allies had their best interests at heart after all.

[Tainari88]

https://twitter.com/AbbyMartin/status/1768405900375769089?s=20

And the US Biden administration with weak excuses of why they are pressuring Netanyahu and doing airdrops that amount to jack shit in real aid.

I saw a segment on babies again dying due to lack of medical attention, and mothers who are needing sixteen cups of water a day just to produce breast milk for their newborn infants and they get two cups or less. One watery soup a day for a meal. And they justify this with what?

I find it monstrous. The Netanyahu led government of Israel is genocidal. And I do not use that word lightly. He is part of a systemic genocide in Gaza. The excuse the IDF says is ridiculous. Total lies.

[QatzelOk]

...The Netanyahu led government of Israel is genocidal. And I do not use that word lightly. He is part of a systemic genocide in Gaza. The excuse the IDF says is ridiculous. Total lies.

And the West (the International Community) is complicit in this genocide. But how much longer can the Vampire Ball last?

...The era of Western elites being able to exploit other nations and other peoples across the world is coming to an end, Russian President Vladimir Putin said in an exclusive interview published by Rossiya 1 and RIA Novosti on Wednesday.

The president stated that over the past few centuries, the so-called “golden billion” has grown accustomed to being able to “fill their bellies with human flesh and their pockets with money” as they have been “parasitizing” other peoples in Africa, Asia, and Latin America.

”But they must understand that the vampire ball is ending,” Putin said...

[MadMonk]

The actions of the Israelies are abominable. Born out of hatred and fear, any means are justified against an enemy which are portrayed as far less than human. We keep hearing of their focus on Hamas but all Palestinians are either acceptable collateral damage or even directly targeted.

Are the Americans supporting these actions? Yes, but there is a worthwhile distinction to make here. The US government and combined military, security and intelligence services do not want this. They understand how damaging this is for any moral authority and diplomatic relations, crappy as it is nowadays. Even domesticly standing behind Israel right now is becoming a liability. It will take the US clawing Israel back from the edge once more, but this time there might be too much damage to able to create any long-term stability again.

A pipedream of any Palestinian 'authority' without actual authority, a subservient tool of the Israeli State, will be lost like a sandcastle against a tsunami.

[Rich]

Yes, she's massively against apartheid and genocide. She will be recorded in the future as being on the right side of history when it comes to Palestine..

So I actually went up to London for one of the early Gaza demos. Aside from some local anti lockdown stuff, it was the first demo I had been on in decades. I was immediately struck by two things the lack of urgency and the ideological hegemony of "From the River to Sea". I'm replying to you in the main thread rather than the British, because I have little doubt that what applies in Britain applies to the Palestinian solidarity movement the world over. I tagged along with a couple of friends, one of them had been involved a bit in Palestinian Solidarity stuff for years. Funnily I had to explain to both of them what "From the River to the Sea" meant.

I went along because I didn't support the cutting off of food and water and the massive death, destruction and suffering that was about to be inflicted on Gaza without even offering the prospect of an end to their Apartheid status at the end of it.As I said there was a complete lack of urgency. We were standing sixty yards from the BBC building. The obvious thing to do was to storm the BBC and occupy it, that would be a protest that couldn't be ignored. Such provocative direct action though must be tied to near term achievable demands, not long term fantasies. I don't go on protests to give my life meaning, or find a way to pass the time, I'm only interested in effecting change, hence I haven't felt tempted to go on any more.

The Palestinian Solidarity Movement is quite correct to say that the Israelis don't really care about the death and sufferings of Gazans, but neither does the Left or the Palestinian Solidarity Movement. If Hamas and their supporters were to demand the complete independence of Gaza in return for a long term peace, they would have a very powerful negotiating position. It would then up to the Israelis to say if they didn't want an independent Gaza, that Gaza had to go back to Egypt.

I'm not offended by "From the River to the Sea", I just see it as empty virtue signalling. From the River to the Sea is not going to happen, but neither are the Israelis going to give back the West Bank. We're now talking about a million settlers. When you try and get Liberals to address this matter seriously they Liberal Zionist gas lighters start talking about land swaps. Please spare me. If removing settlers from the West Bank or Jerusalem is difficult try removing them from pre 1967 Israel.

[wat0n]

The actions of the Israelies are abominable. Born out of hatred and fear, any means are justified against an enemy which are portrayed as far less than human. We keep hearing of their focus on Hamas but all Palestinians are either acceptable collateral damage or even directly targeted.

Are the Americans supporting these actions? Yes, but there is a worthwhile distinction to make here. The US government and combined military, security and intelligence services do not want this. They understand how damaging this is for any moral authority and diplomatic relations, crappy as it is nowadays. Even domesticly standing behind Israel right now is becoming a liability. It will take the US clawing Israel back from the edge once more, but this time there might be too much damage to able to create any long-term stability again.

A pipedream of any Palestinian 'authority' without actual authority, a subservient tool of the Israeli State, will be lost like a sandcastle against a tsunami.

Americans are supporting Israel because they understand that is exactly how fighting an enemy that embeds itself with the civilian population looks like.

All these things we're seeing in Gaza also happened when the US fought ISIS in Mosul, yes including hunger, but interestingly nobody accused the US of committing genocide.

[paeng]

That's the same Israel that the U.S. was treating as a tool starting in the 1980s:

[Rancid]

That's the same Israel that the U.S. was treating as a tool starting in the 1980s:

So we agree, the US should let go of Israel.

That said, people can change their positions on things, so digging back to 1986 is a bit much no?

Do you think the Joe Biden of 1986 would be calling for Israeli elections as the Joe Biden today?

[Pants-of-dog]

The US supports the IDF and Israeli government for the simple reason that they need a military ally in the Middle East. It is all about maintaining a favourable position in the area to secure their access to oil.

[QatzelOk]

So we agree, the US should let go of Israel...

Now that it has hundreds of nukes and lots of enemies in the neighborhood, this is the perfect time to free their hand and allow Isreal to use their full potential as a Crusader Colony on the ropes...

Maybe they will "go out" in a flurry of nuclear genocides, but America can just stay home and keep its hands clean.

Is this really what you are suggesting, Rance?

[Skynet]

@wat0n ISIS took the civilians as hostages and killed those who wanted to flee...

Hamas does not take Palestinians as hostages... Israel takes the Palestinians as hostages to pressure the release of Israelis in Hamas' hands

[wat0n]

@wat0n ISIS took the civilians as hostages and killed those who wanted to flee...

Hamas does not take Palestinians as hostages... Israel takes the Palestinians as hostages to pressure the release of Israelis in Hamas' hands

This is actually questionable, too. Hamas has at least killed Palestinian civilians trying to pick up aid.

It is not clear to me if they would also kill those trying to evacuate Rafah if it comes to be.

[Skynet]

This is actually questionable, too. Hamas has at least killed Palestinian civilians trying to pick up aid.

It is not clear to me if they would also kill those trying to evacuate Rafah if it comes to be.

This is an Fox News/Israeli lie the IDF killed them...

The once disciplinated IDF became an wild horde

[wat0n]

This is an Fox News/Israeli lie the IDF killed them...

The once disciplinated IDF became an Horde

The civilians shot in Rafah prove otherwise. Israel does not have ground troops there.

[Skynet]

Do we mean the same massacre:

I mean south-west of Gaza City 29.02.2024

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2024 ... g-food-aid

Which incident do you mean???