[Godstud]

Holding Israel to a double standard is antisemitism.

No. That would be holding Israel to a double standard, and that's all. Do you even know what antisemitic MEANS??

Antisemitism
hostility toward or discrimination against Jews as a religious, ethnic, or racial group

I don't give a rats ass about Jews. Are not Muslims, Christians, etc., living in Israel too? When I say Israel is being a douche, I am talking about the STATE of Israel, that does all these shitty things to Palestine, and the people therein. As shown already(in another thread), even Christian Palestinians can be fucked over.

The state of Israel is a criminal state that breaks UN resolutions and international law on whim. I'ts overly aggressive, and uses bullshit past claims to steal land from people who have lived there for a long time. They push non-jews out of their areas(settlements), and confiscate their property.

The state of Israel is a monstrosity. If people do not like Israel, it's because of this, and not because they "hate jews".

[dcomplex]

Blah blah blah. Is Israel as monstrous as any Muslim country? No!

You are trying to stigmatize Israel by accusing it of crimes wildly out of proportion, just like how medieval Christians demonized the Jews. You are not making criticisms. You are speaking out of raw emotion and animus.

You selectively demonize Israel, the only Jewish state, the state of an ancient nation that has undergone the most extreme persecutions over a period of at least a thousand years. Pick on somebody else. Jew-baiting is a sick form of fun.

[Godstud]

Blah blah blah. Is Israel as monstrous as any Muslim country? No!

Was I comparing? No, I was not. Therefore this little blurb is idiotic.

You selectively demonize Israel, the only Jewish state, the state of an ancient nation that has undergone the most extreme persecutions over a period of at least a thousand years. Pick on somebody else. Jew-baiting is a sick form of fun.

There are many countries I think are pieces of shit. Israel isn't as bad as North Korea, for instance, but it's certainly on par with Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, and its other Arab neighbours.

I suppose you could be proud of that... or not, depending on how you look at things.

THAT is comparing, and I mentioned a secular country, as well.

[dcomplex]

And yet you reserve your special venom for Israel. Thank you for proving my point that you are Jew-baiting.

As to your comments, Jews have every right to settle in the land of Israel, and they always will. The Arabs lost any right to it when they tried to expel us. I do not care who/what religion they are. The people who lost their rights to Israel are those who acted in aggression against it.

They only continue to reside there by our mercy.

[Godstud]

Is this the Israel & Palestine forum? Why yes... yes it is! Why else would someone post here? Use that thing sitting on your shoulders, please.

Have I condemned the others? Yes. I think Saudi Arabia is a terrible place, and as bad as Israel, although, in different ways.

I have no "special venom" for Israel. It ranks up in the top 10 most loathsome countries in the world(as far as how they treat people). Something I am sure you are proud of.

I don't give a fuck about Jews, but they sure think everyone gives a fuck about them. Talk about supreme arrogance!

[dcomplex]

Bullshit!

Iran, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Eritrea, Sudan, Mauritania, Zimbabwe, Yemen, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, North Korea, Russia, China...

Israel is better than all of those countries, plus a whole bunch more. It is not even in the bottom 50.

Maybe you loathe Israel in your top 10, but that is because you are an antisemite and Jew-Baiter.

[Godstud]

If it wasn't occupying Palestine, mistreating people, launching attacks killing lots of children, breaking international law and human rights, actions akin to genocide. etc. then perhaps it might be better. Right now, Israel is a steaming pile of shit. My opinion is as valid as yours, too.

[dcomplex]

In terms of magnitude, Russia decimated the Chechens, killing one in ten. China is busy massacring the muslims in Xinjiang, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and Mauritania still have covert slavery. Saudi Arabia treats its women and shiites like hell, Bahrain is 90% shiite and frequently imprisons political activists, Eritrea massacres its own people, Sudan commits outright genocide, Syria besieges civilians without any humanitarian aid, Lebanon keeps its Palestine Arabs locked up in refugee camps, while Jordan massacred 10000 to kick them out in black september.

Iran openly persecutes Bahais, imprisons and kills political prisoners and gay people while preaching the elimination of Israel. Turkey ethnically cleansed northern cyprus and massacres/imprisons its kurds. North Korea is an outright stalinist dictatorship, as is Zimbabwe, arguably. South Africa deported tens of thousands of refugees to their deaths. Burma is expelling/deporting its Rohingya muslim population. Somalia is shattered and full of terrorists and pirates. Central African Republic is expelling its Muslim population entirely, Libya is shattered, run by warlords and gangs, Iraq is ruled by ISIS and the rump central government, which persecuted Sunnis.

Indonesia exterminated a third of East Timorese, Kuwait expelled 400k Palestine Arabs...

I can go on and on listing all of the things going on or that have gone on in the world, but it is pointless.

Yet it is Israel that is so goddamn evil.

Again, Jew-baiting, antisemitism, and poison.

[danholo]

I don't see how bringing all that up has anything to do with Israel.

I don't see how Israel is guilty of 'actions akin to genocide'. Israel gets a bad rep because according to many, it's guilty of actions it never did or does.

[Tailz]

I don't see how bringing all that up has anything to do with Israel.

I don't see how Israel is guilty of 'actions akin to genocide'. Israel gets a bad rep because according to many, it's guilty of actions it never did or does.

Accusations of Genocide, are of course incorrect. But I thought Israel got a bad rep for the things it actually does? Like killing innocent civilians when it drops bombs on populated areas. Or bulldozing the homes of Palestinians in order to replace them with Jewish Settler Homes? I thought it was those sorts of actions that gave Israel a bad rep?

[danholo]

Indeed, and like the example of genocide, maybe ignorance is what fuels this bad rep, then the actual facts behind these actions.

[dcomplex]

Israel does not target civilians. Israel has done 1400 strikes in an area with human shielding, and it has killed fewer than 200 people. If it were targeting civilians, you don't think it could have gotten at least one Arab per airstrike?

Moreover, Israel bulldozing homes to make way for settlements is simply a lie. If you want me to find you info debunking it, I can. It is a concerted strategy of demonization that started with the Soviet Union.

[Tailz]

Indeed, and like the example of genocide, maybe ignorance is what fuels this bad rep, then the actual facts behind these actions.

Of course, most people are posting on the basis of emotion. They see something they don't like, and get emotional and post hasty comments about it. Not checking the background of what happened. Take for example Dcomplex's post just now. He saw my comment and has jumped to the conclusion that I must be accusing Israel of targeting civilians. Which you and I can obviously see I make no comment of such, my text is a simple statement that Israel drops bombs into populated areas, which it does, which in turn cause innocent people to be killed by those bombs, which sadly happens when one detonates an explosive device in such a heavily populated area. I made no comment about who the target was. This response is driven by his desire to defend from accusation his "side" in the conflict.

[dcomplex]

You bomb where the enemy troops and weapons are. If they are locating themselves in populated areas, they are using human shields. Israel does what it can to inform civilians that they are located where fighters are, but ultimately the group using human shields is responsible for the deaths of their human shields.

IMO, Israel should just expel these people, every last one. It gets demonized for defending itself while its enemies fire from behind their own civilians. It is horrible, but I do not see any other permanent solution. All we need to do is cut their power, water, and food. Then give them some buses and send them to Syria.

[Great Smell of Brut]

:roll: Is this the Israel & Palestine forum? Why yes... yes it is! Why else would someone post here? Use that thing sitting on your shoulders, please.

Have I condemned the others? Yes. I think Saudi Arabia is a terrible place, and as bad as Israel, although, in different ways.

I have no "special venom" for Israel. It ranks up in the top 10 most loathsome countries in the world(as far as how they treat people). Something I am sure you are proud of.

I don't give a fuck about Jews, but they sure think everyone gives a fuck about them. Talk about supreme arrogance!

It certain;y does NPOT rank in the 10 worst countries of the world, but then I have no expection from you given your utter ignorance of basic terminology and your naive acceptance of any old shot stuck in front of you.

Muslims in Israel have the same rights as other Israelis, they have their own members of parliament. Arabs in the occupied territories have refused to sign a peace deal and are still t war. UN votes do not confer legitimacy.

The Palestinians supported Hitler in WW2 and they lost. Germany lost lots of Trritory due to losing WW2 as did Italy and Japan. Pals should expect to as well.

[Dial it down guys. - G.]

[Heisenberg]

See, it's so very convenient of you to throw things in to the air without backing your claims. I guess, you judge this conflict from your heart and not your brain, much like many European and American lefties who think they know more than the local. Heck, even treat us like uncultured savages who seek blood.
I don't define myself as right or left, I define myself as a realistic, so I don't judge things from my stomach.

Actually, this couldn't be further from the truth. I'm not particularly bothered either way about Israelis or Palestinians, and for what it's worth, I wouldn't bat an eyelid if they all killed each other. It would save a great deal of trouble. What bothers me is the incessant claims that Israel is this beacon of civilisation and restraint, and that we in the West should somehow automatically root for them. Or, more ridiculous still, that we should commit money, soldiers and material to defend Israeli interests. When you respond to the murder of a couple of teenagers with air strikes, you don't get to make that claim. I don't think I'm alone in saying that a lot of people are getting sick of this pathetic saga.

[ArtAllm]

Typical racist comment that assumes the eradication of the individual within the assigned identity. The is is exactly the same thinking that led to Auchwitz. Jews were judged as a collective not as individuals for their crimes, whether real or imagined. Different Palestinians have different world views. Many Palestinians probably just want to get on with their lives just like an Israeli, American or a Brit and are not really that interested in the flag that flies over them. In Britain in recent years we've been flooded with immigration from Eastern Europe, the immigrants just don't seem to care what flag they live under, the same with many British who've moved to Spain. People just wanting to get on with their individual lives.

There is absolutely no fundamental difference between the way the Zionists treat the Palestinians and the way the the Nazis treated the Jews. The only differences are that Israel is not superpower like Nazi Germany was in the early 1940's, it is not engaged in total war, or anything remotely resembling it and it has to live under the scrutiny of the international media. Hence Israel can never find a final to the Palestinian problem.

Very good point!
More and more leading Zionists make open statements, instigating the collective punishment of an entire group of people because some of them are just reacting to the crimes of Zionists, like ethnic cleansing and land theft.

But Zionists can get away with their crimes, because they control the media and the political process (regarding ME) in the USA and most western countries, and even in Russia!

[dcomplex]

Did you even read the responses to that disgusting libel?

The Jews never laid claim and artillery fire to all or any of Germany or Europe. A more apt description is that Jews treat the Arabs like how Czechs treated Sudeten Germans...

[Godstud]

Israel breaches international law at will, breaks Geneva Conventions, and is an apartheid state. Yes, that makes it a shithole, much like South Africa used to be...

Does the term 'apartheid' fit Israel? Of course it does.
The Jewish state (for so it identifies itself, after all) maintains a system of formal and informal housing segregation both in Israel and in the occupied territories. It's obvious, of course, that Jewish settlements in the West Bank aren't exactly bursting with Palestinians. In Israel itself, however, hundreds of communities have been established for Jewish residents on land expropriated from Palestinians, in which segregation is maintained, for example, by admissions committees empowered to use ethnic criteria long since banned in the United States, or by the inability of Palestinian citizens to access land held exclusively for the Jewish people by the state-sanctioned Jewish National Fund.

Jewish residents of the occupied territories enjoy various rights and privileges denied to their Palestinian neighbors. While the former enjoy the protections of Israeli civil law, the latter are subject to the harsh provisions of military law. So, while their Jewish neighbors come and go freely, West Bank Palestinians are subject to arbitrary arrest and detention, and to the denial of freedom of movement; they are frequently barred from access to educational or healthcare facilities, Christian and Muslim sites for religious worship, and so on.

Meanwhile, Palestinian citizens of Israel must contend with about 50 state laws and bills that, according to the Palestinian-Israeli human rights organization Adalah, either privilege Jews or directly discriminate against the Palestinian minority. One of the key components of Israel's nationality law, the Law of Return, for example, applies to Jews only, and excludes Palestinians, including Palestinians born in what is now the state of Israel. While Jewish citizens can move back and forth without interdiction, Israeli law expressly bars Palestinian citizens from bringing spouses from the occupied territories to live with them in Israel.

The educational systems for the two populations in Israel (not to mention the occupied territories) are kept largely separate and unequal. While overcrowded Palestinian schools in Israel crumble, Jewish students are given access to more resources and curricular options.

It is not legally possible in Israel for a Jewish citizen to marry a non-Jewish citizen. And a web of laws, regulations and military orders governing what kind of people can live in which particular spaces makes mixed marriages within the occupied territories, or across the pre-1967 border between Israel and the occupied territories, all but impossible.

And so it goes in all domains of life, from birth to death: a systematic, vigilantly policed separation of the two populations and utter contempt for the principle of equality. One group — stripped of property and rights, expelled, humiliated, punished, demolished, imprisoned and at times driven to the edge of starvation (down to the meticulously calculated last calorie) — has withered. The other group — its freedom of movement and of development not merely unrestricted but actively encouraged — has flourished, and its religious and cultural symbols adorn the regalia of the state and are emblazoned on the state flag.
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la ... story.html

Also, dcomplex, I think it's more ANTI-ZIONISM that you are seeing, moreso than people against Jews. That's something different.

As for your statement:

Again, Jew-baiting, antisemitism, and poison.

Some critics of Israeli policy argue that Israeli propagandists and supporters often try to equate anti-Zionism and criticism of Israeli policy, with antisemitism, to silence opposition to Israeli policies. Noam Chomsky for example argues:
There have long been efforts to identify anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism in an effort to exploit anti-racist sentiment for political ends; "one of the chief tasks of any dialogue with the Gentile world is to prove that the distinction between anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism is not a distinction at all," Israeli diplomat Abba Eban argued, in a typical expression of this intellectually and morally disreputable position (Eban, Congress Bi-Weekly, March 30, 1973). But that no longer suffices. It is now necessary to identify criticism of Israeli policies as anti-Semitism – or in the case of Jews, as "self-hatred," so that all possible cases are covered.

You are doing exactly that.

The Jews never laid claim and artillery fire to all or any of Germany or Europe. A more apt description is that Jews treat the Arabs like how Czechs treated Sudeten Germans...

Why are you making claims and comparing Israel to peoples and places that have nothing in common with Israel? You should stop doing the, "But look at ______! They treated someone worse than we are treating Palestinians!" argument. It only undermines your position.

Great Smell of Brut... I am not talking to you. Why don't you trying arguing a point, instead of attacking people.

[dcomplex]

Heisenberg, your quote is not me. It is wrath014. I was looking at it, and I was like "did I write that while drunk because that does not sound like me".