[ThereBeDragons]

Reserving judgment on Irgun for the time being - all sorts of things can be (loosely) justified when national survival is at stake, but that has certainly not been the case for several decades now.

[dcomplex]

I do not accept the claim that the IDF uses terror tactics or reprisals against civilians now. It is powerful enough that it can track enemy terrorists down. Reprisals are a crude tactic that can only be justified when the targeting of combatants is totally impossible and deterrence is key to national survival.

[Tailz]

To be fair, I have not seen a smoking gun for this interpretation, and if I had—or any other mod—it would be treated in the same way.

I have often said I'm for the liquidation of the bourgeoisie as a class, which does not necessarily necessitate concentration camps and whatnot. It also does not mean that it would be a completely easy transition where there would be absolutely no casualties in any way.

Because the ME forum is dark and full of errors, it's possible things have slipped from my eye. Do report anything that does imply genocide as a solution as it is not only against forum rules, but illegal in the country in which the servers are located.

Fasces appeared to think it was a smoking gun, as per his reply to the basement post:

From Basement thread: Rule 3 violation?

I always interpret calls for mass violent action to be a violation of rule 3, only when it makes specific reference to the inherent qualities of that people.

"We should kill all Arabs because they are the inferior race, violent and abrasive, and their genes will pollute ours"

vs

"We should kill people living in West Bank because Israel will be safer if there is no one to police"

I think this particular case is very clear cut though. He dresses it up like its the second reason (they can stay if they surrender unconditionally) but other phrases show up that betray its a race thing:

I am against peace treaties with double-dealing criminals like the Palestine Arabs.

Someone with mod abilities should take a look at this thread.

After a while I noticed nothing had appeared to have happened, so I inquired of Fasces if anyhting had happened, he then mentioned I shuld take up the matter with Demo or Cat. Which I did. I will not also note, I have also just noticed that Gelkin has started to edit some of Dcomplex's posts as well.

My point has always been, had the same posts been made, but instead of Arab or Palestinian the word Jew was used. There would be Yellow and Red cards flying about. Frankly I do not wish to see your efforts are moderating the ME & IP sections discussed here, as these posts belong in the Basement. Nether do I wish to draw recrimination to the mods of PoFo, but what has happened, has happened.

[dcomplex]

Being against a peace TREATY is different from being against peace. The Palestine Arabs' leaders have indeed double-dealed, since we know now that Arafat was organizing terrorist attacks at the same time he was negotiating with Israel, and moreover, the movement he lead was and is a criminal enterprise in countless ways. It is an assessment of past behavior, not a statement of inherent qualities.

[ThereBeDragons]

Being against a peace TREATY is different from being against peace. The Palestine Arabs' leaders have indeed double-dealed, since we know now that Arafat was organizing terrorist attacks at the same time he was negotiating with Israel, and moreover, the movement he lead was and is a criminal enterprise in countless ways. It is an assessment of past behavior, not a statement of inherent qualities.

Sides are not obligated to cease hostilities until the treaty is signed. Very often a party will fight right up until the treaty has been signed, so that they do not find themselves negotiating from a position of weakness. It is not "double-dealing" unless he was planning to flout the treaty he was negotiating.

[dcomplex]

The Oslo agreements stipulate the cessation of hostilities as a condition for the formation of the Palestinian Authority under the control of the PLO and the entry of the PLO leadership into Israeli administered territory. That was the quid pro quo.

[ArtAllm]

My point has always been, had the same posts been made, but instead of Arab or Palestinian the word Jew was used. There would be Yellow and Red cards flying about. Frankly I do not wish to see your efforts are moderating the ME & IP sections discussed here, as these posts belong in the Basement. Nether do I wish to draw recrimination to the mods of PoFo, but what has happened, has happened.

Yep, the double standard became an accepted norm, most people do not even notice the huge Gorilla any more.

The same with the words "Russians", "Germans",.etc.

Nobody would call you "Anti-Russian" or "Anti-German", "Racist" etc. for instigating hate against Germans, Russians, Palestinians, Arabs, Muslims etc.

Many Zionists believes that they have the right to hate people that are their perceived adversaries.

But if you expose their hate and supremacism, they will call you "anti-Semite", viciously attack you, report your posts and try to silence you, instead of attacking your arguments.

This forum is not an exception, you find these double standards in any forum, and the reasons for that are obvious.

[Buzz62]

I never said liquidate the Palestine Arabs. I said liquidate their national movement. These are very different things. At worst it is "ethnic cleansing" ("milosevic was right?"), but at best it means the total elimination of Hamas, the PLO, etc. and breaking the back of what they stand for (destroying Israel, killing Jews).

Wow...ya poke along in other threads, and look what happens.

dcomplex...hang on to yer hat here...I happen to agree with you.
Here's why;

The goal in the case of Israel, is the peaceful co-existence of the native Arabs and the newcomer Jewish Europeans.
How can this be achieved?
Well...merging the cultures to some degree might...right?
And could this not be correctly labeled "ethnic cleansing"?
Now before you all get freaked out...think.

The goal is peaceful co-existence.
A cultural group from Eastern Europe picks up and moves to a populated...albeit sparsely...land. An ancient land that happens to hold dear value for the people of the Abrahamic religions. This heavily includes those already inhabiting the land. The Palestinians.
If you cannot already SEE the conflict coming...shame on you.

So...here come these new-comers.
Do they "conquer" the existing populace? No.
Do they integrate themselves with the existing populace? Not really.
Do they ever act as if they are "new-comers", or "guests" of the host nation? No.
What the DO...is show up with pieces of paper that state they own huge tracts of land.
That Ahab the Arab's mom, just lost her home and Ahab has to move...to Gaza...
Indeed the act of migrating to Palestine was so arrogantly handled, that the Palestinian people knew what was coming, before it arrived.

This, people, is a perfect example of a botched job.
The new-comers, being in the position they were in when the migrated, SHOULD HAVE, IMO of course, attempted to MERGE themselves WITHIN the EXISTING society and culture.
THEY DID NOT...and what's worse now, the hatred on both sides runs so deep, it would take billions in social engineering in order to even start such a project.

HOWEVER...what I propose IS "ethnic cleansing" and it would necessitate the "ethnic cleansing" of BOTH the Jews and the Arabs.
Thus producing "The Palestinian/Israeli (you may pick which you like to use) NATION.

This should have happened on day one.
It did not.
Cause...and effect.

[slybaldguy]

After a while I noticed nothing had appeared to have happened, so I inquired of Fasces if anyhting had happened, he then mentioned I shuld take up the matter with Demo or Cat. Which I did. I will not also note, I have also just noticed that Gelkin has started to edit some of Dcomplex's posts as well.

My point has always been, had the same posts been made, but instead of Arab or Palestinian the word Jew was used. There would be Yellow and Red cards flying about. Frankly I do not wish to see your efforts are moderating the ME & IP sections discussed here, as these posts belong in the Basement. Nether do I wish to draw recrimination to the mods of PoFo, but what has happened, has happened.

There certainly seems to be a lot of flexibility when to comes to applying the rules.

[Fasces]

After a while I noticed nothing had appeared to have happened, so I inquired of Fasces if anyhting had happened, he then mentioned I shuld take up the matter with Demo or Cat. Which I did. I will not also note, I have also just noticed that Gelkin has started to edit some of Dcomplex's posts as well.

If I were a Middle East subforum mod, I would have taken care of it. This issue was missed for a while, but I understand the thread has been removed in the end. Sorry for the delay.

[Demosthenes]

There certainly seems to be a lot of flexibility when to comes to applying the rules.

You're correct, there is and there will always be until someone actually pays one guy to moderate the entire site himself.

As it stands and has always stood, individual mods are largely left autonomous within their own forums. This means some forums will be governed more tightly than others and when new mods take over they will generally enforce a tighter standard in hopes of making their mark on a forum. The mods we select we do so because they have consistently displayed abilities as good users and as such we trust them to do their jobs.

We've never apologized for this and we're not going to start now.

[ThirdTerm]

Perhaps there were good reasons why this Palestinian American teen was beaten by Israeli police and the YouTube video does not tell the whole story. It's likely that Tariq was involved in a violent demonstration against Israel with local Palestinian youths and he got away with it lightly because of his American citizenship. The incident was not an unprovoked attack amid riots in East Jerusalem and Tariq may not have been an innocent bystander and it was natural for him to stand up for his people.

The footage is being examined by Israeli officials, who say there were incidents prior to the beating, such as throwing pipe bombs and fire-crackers, and that Tariq was one of six people who were involved in serious disturbances. Police arrested the six suspects and say three had knives on them and that Tariq had a different sharp object on him, which was confiscated by one of the police officers and can be seen on the video. On Sunday, Israeli courts sentenced the Tariq, who attends high school in Tampa, to nine days of house arrest. They accused him of being among a group of masked Palestinians who attacked Israeli officers.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/07/06/video-u-s-teen-cousin-of-slain-palestinian-youth-says-israeli-police-beat-him/

[pugsville]

There are NO GOOD reasons for Police to beat up a helpless individual regardless of the individuals actions. If he did something wrong, arrest, charge, go to court. When the police start taking the law into their own hands and beat people they have become thugs not police men. All the Police involved should be dismissed including those who just watched while any standards of police work were destroyed.

[dcomplex]

Uh, idiots were attqcking the Jerusalem Light rail infrastructure.

They were committing crimes.

[annatar1914]

Uh, idiots were attqcking the Jerusalem Light rail infrastructure.

They were committing crimes.

Are you an Israeli?

I want to know what your personal stake is in this matter.

[dcomplex]

Yes.

[pugsville]

criminals have rights, and this is for society's good, the rule of law. If the police just beat up people when they are helpless the Police are breaking the law, and they are now just thugs. What they were originally doing before being beaten is irrelevant. Either you believe in the rule of law or you have the rule of thugs.

[annatar1914]

Yes.

I see, a secularist nationalist who is an atheist who yet believes in a Jewish State, which you will cease to believe in when you are gone, if you are right in your materialism.

If I am right, I have hit upon the reason why Israel will disappear as a political entity. Many Israelis believe as you do, it's true. But you all do not and cannot believe in Israel as much as your enemies believe in the end of Israel.

[ThereBeDragons]

If I am right, I have hit upon the reason why Israel will disappear as a political entity. Many Israelis believe as you do, it's true. But you all do not and cannot believe in Israel as much as your enemies believe in the end of Israel.

Believing in things really hard doesn't actually make you win materially.

No doubt you will win the war in the spiritual realm.

[annatar1914]

Believing in things really hard doesn't actually make you win materially.

No doubt you will win the war in the spiritual realm.

People act in accord with what they think, and the more fervent the belief, the more motivation goes into their actions.

The war is always won in the spiritual realm first. As Napoleon said; "Morale is to Material, as Three is to One." Ask the Iraqi Army that, they will show you.