[Rancid]

Yeah but they have engaged in some ethnic cleansing before, like 1948.

What stopped them from being about to complete the job?

[B0ycey]

@B0ycey

The problem is nobody is holding Hamas to any standards. The problem is people ONLY want to hold Israel to standards but not Hamas.

This is simply NOT TRUE!

In fact it is so not true, I cannot believe you wrote it. Hamas is regarded as a terrorist organisation. Israel gets away with an apartheid, occupation of the West Bank, weekly killings, annexation etc etc etc. The whole nation is a walking UN illegal activity red flag. It has never been accountable for anything. And now we are ignoring blockades and displacement? So if there is a double standard, the beneficiary is ISRAEL!

Don't get me wrong, what Hamas did was wrong. But if you are going to write such utter bullshit, please don't ignore everything that happened prior to seven days ago and make out that Israel is just the innocent party here. They have their own skeletons and it is about time we paided more attention to them actually. And even more so as it could have serious consequences if we just let them continue with their over the top response whilst breaking UN law.

[B0ycey]

It is legal to warn civilians to evacuate an area that will be turned into a battlefield.

You know what isn't legal? Asking people to move and then occupying the land, the very thing you quoted.

[wat0n]

You know what isn't legal? Asking people to move and then occupying the land, the very thing you quoted.

Wrong. It is legal to tell civilians to evacuate an area your army is about to take by land (i.e. occupy). Land warfare is far, far more deadly for civilians than air bombings.

[B0ycey]

Wrong. It is legal to tell civilians to evacuate an area your army is about to take by land (i.e. occupy). Land warfare is far, far more deadly for civilians than air bombings.

Ehhh... but that is not what you quoted from me. A senior Israeli minister actually said he would like the territory to be occupied and be a safety buffer where nobody would be allowed to enter. I never mentioned fucking leaflets.

And no, you cannot just displace a group of people and then occupy it. Just so you know, that is called genocide.

[wat0n]

Ehhh... but that is not what you quoted from me. A senior Israeli minister actually said he would like the territory to be occupied and be a safety buffer where nobody would be allowed to enter. I never mentioned fucking leaflets.

And no, you cannot just displace a group of people and then occupy it. Just so you know, that is called genocide.

Funny, I saw another Israeli source saying Israel doesn't want a long-term occupation of Gaza. Chances it would be handed to either an international force or the Palestinian Authority.

Although, if Israel will go for a total defeat of Hamas, it will have to take Gaza (i.e. occupy it) at least for some time. Even more so since this type of operation would require going door by door to disarm people - which will take months if that's where things are heading (I think they are).

[Rich]

@Tainari88 There are a lot of Palestinians living in Israel and it is not an apartheid state.

Yes that's right, Arab and Jewish Israeli citizens share the same beaches. This is one of the great cover ups of the Jew hating media.

When Israel announced that they were cutting off food, water and medicines, most of the occupants of Gaza said that's OK because Arab and Jewish Israeli citizens share the same beaches.

When Gazans have their homes destroyed the overwhelming majority say that's OK because Arab and Jewish Israeli citizens share the same beaches.

When men, women and children are murdered, no that's not a nice word, lets say killed, no that's still not a nice word, it might be upsetting to some Jews and to anti Nazis, let use the passive tense, when Gazen men, women die due to Israeli bombs and missiles the overwhelming majority are totally fine with it because Arab and Jewish Israeli citizens share the same beaches.

When 1 million Gazans were ordered to uproot and leave within 24 hours most Gazans were fine with it because Arab and Jewish Israeli citizens share the same beaches. And when some Zionists told them that apparently this was legal according to international law they were even more fine with it.

The Jew hatin left media all cover this up, but Gazan men and women have been seen running out with their dead babies in their arms screaming "this is OK because Arab and Jewish Israeli citizens share the same beaches."

Another thing the Jew hatin leftie media lie about is "God is Great", that's not what Gazans really chant. What they really chant is "International Law is Great". And what the overwhelming majority of them will say is "We don't need Hamas, we don't need Fatah the United Nations is the only protector we need,"

[Politics_Observer]

@B0ycey

Its incredibly naive what you stated to @wat0n that you can just sit down with terrorists like Hamas and just have a dialogue and that will make the problem go away.

[noemon]

@B0ycey

Its incredibly naive what you stated to @wat0n that you can just sit down with terrorists like Hamas and just have a dialogue and that will make the problem go away.

You can not only sit with Saudi & Turkey while they are openly ethnic-cleansing Armenians, Kurds & Yemenis, but also while bombing the Towers, and to top that off not only you sit with them but you also call them your allies.



But you can't sit down with Russia(your actual ally in 2 world wars and several other wars in the course of history) or the government of Gaza.

[B0ycey]

@B0ycey

Its incredibly naive what you stated to @wat0n that you can just sit down with terrorists like Hamas and just have a dialogue and that will make the problem go away.

For a start, I have never said Israel should negotiate with Hamas. I said they should negotiate with Abbas, Qatar and all those who would be important in the the region along with the UN and perhaps the UN security Council to sort the issue out once and for all and that a ceasefire should be in place as talks take place. But even if I did say Israel should talk with Hamas, negotiations have been successful between them via third parties before and historically between hostile parties in general. It is clowns like you who think you can bomb or invade yourself to peace. Gunboat diplomacy simply doesn't work. And Israel can come in and take out Hamas, but they will only create another group because they have never taken the people of Palestine seriously. Also, this may well destabilise the region entirely and go beyond Palestine in any case. Blinken has done the tour, but the ME are not with him on Israel invading and displacing the people of Gaza. I don't think this will go well at all. We could be in for yet another forever war.

[wat0n]

For a start, I have never said Israel should negotiate with Hamas. I said they should negotiate with Abbas, Qatar and all those who would be important in the the region along with the UN and perhaps the UN security Council to sort the issue out once and for all and that a ceasefire should be in place as talks take place. But even if I did say Israel should talk with Hamas, negotiations have been successful between them via third parties before and historically between hostile parties in general. It is clowns like you who think you can bomb or invade yourself to peace. Gunboat diplomacy simply doesn't work. And Israel can come in and take out Hamas, but they will only create another group because they have never taken the people of Palestine seriously. Also, this may well destabilise the region entirely and go beyond Palestine in any case. Blinken has done the tour, but the ME are not with him on Israel invading and displacing the people of Gaza. I don't think this will go well at all. We could be in for yet another forever war.

Let's say Israel signs an agreement with the Palestinian Authority. What's the subsequent step by step process that leads to the end of Hamas' influence?

[B0ycey]

Let's say Israel signs an agreement with the Palestinian Authority. What's the subsequent step by step process that leads to the end of Hamas' influence?

Well that would be negotiated wouldn't it. Hamas can only exist if it is supported though. But if we are to use the Good Friday Model as an example, Hamas would give up arms and be given seats in an established parliament.

[annatar1914]

Well that would be negotiated wouldn't it. Hamas can only exist if it is supported though. But if we are to use the Good Friday Model as an example, Hamas would give up arms and be given seats in an established parliament.

@B0ycey :

I think that train left the station. It's never going to be that way.

We're going to face observing Vladimir Jabotinsky or Meir Kahane versus ISIS, metaphorically speaking.

[wat0n]

Well that would be negotiated wouldn't it. Hamas can only exist if it is supported though. But if we are to use the Good Friday Model as an example, Hamas would give up arms and be given seats in an established parliament.

Or Hamas would refuse to negotiate and continue with their armed struggle, like the dissident Republicans (e.g. the RIRA) did and still do.

[Tainari88]

Let's say Israel signs an agreement with the Palestinian Authority. What's the subsequent step by step process that leads to the end of Hamas' influence?

First thing Israel should do is not think the USA government is interested in peace in the Middle East. If they were interested in peace and not division to take advantage and control the region from afar the political policies would have reflected that. They do not.

Listen to this piece by the Intercept. He is right about the funding. And the USA government officials admitting what happened.

[B0ycey]

I think that train left the station. It's never going to be that way.

Probably, but that will be down to Israel rather than Hamas I would say.

But in any case, I foresee another forever war. When this all turns into shit, those who asked for conflict cannot complain. Not that the West can really fund or focus on another conflict it should be said.

[B0ycey]

Or Hamas would refuse to negotiate and continue with their armed struggle, like the dissident Republicans (e.g. the RIRA) did and still do.

But Hamas wouldn't negotiate. Those who defecto fund them would. I think people are severely over estimating what capability Hamas has. It is a tiny terrorist organisation who run a strip of land called Gaza. If a deal over Palestine was ever reached, its whole existence become moot especially if there is no support for it. They wouldn't be funded and thats it, it becomes an even tinier underground vigilante sect. Because ultimately that is what this is all about. The recognition of Palestine and the freedom of the Palestinian people.

[wat0n]

But Hamas wouldn't negotiate. Those who defecto fund them would. I think people are severely over estimating what capability Hamas has. It is a tiny terrorist organisation who run a strip of land called Gaza. If a deal over Palestine was ever reached, its whole existence become moot especially if there is no support for it. They wouldn't be funded and thats it, it becomes an even tinier underground vigilante sect. Because ultimately that is what this is all about. The recognition of Palestine and the freedom of the Palestinian people.

People are overestimating Hamas' capabilities? Are you serious?

Unlike the IRA and similar groups, it has its own military industry. For instance, their main rockets (the Qassam) were developed and are produced domestically.

[B0ycey]

People are overestimating Hamas' capabilities? Are you serious?

Unlike the IRA and similar groups, it has its own military industry. For instance, their main rockets (the Qassam) were developed and are produced domestically.

You might be confusing Hamas with Hezbollah. And Qassams are basic. Really basic. Which is why I cannot believe they were able to get passed the Iron Dome.

[wat0n]

You might be confusing Hamas with Hezbollah. And Qassams are basic. Really basic. Which is why I cannot believe they were able to get passed the Iron Dome.

If you fire enough rockets, you can saturate any defense system.

And no, I'm not confusing Hamas with Hezbollah. This reaction, where facts are put on the table yet you choose to disregard them, suggests you're not being intellectually honest.

The IRA has never been able to produce rockets (or drones for that matter) on its own. It has also never been able to control any territory or establish a government.

Yet you still claim Hamas is just like the IRA.