[ArtAllm]

ArtAllem, you mush up two subjects. What a country does to an occupied population that aren't its own citizens means nothing about how 'democratic' it is or isn't.

I notice this 'subject mushing' happens a lot here

Read my post more attentively!

BTW, what would ADL say if Americans declared USA a "White Christian country", declared all Native Americans "non-citizens" that are under occupation and bomb their Reservations? What would ADL say if Jews in the USA had to pledge allegiance to a Christian State?

Would this make ADL more happy? Would they call USA a "working democracy".

In this case the apartheid regime in South Africa was a working democracy, too, and they did not kill so many native people in South Africa like it is the case in Palestine.

BTW, my nick is ArtAllm, please remember this.

[GreenGoblin]

I read it just fine. The palestinians living the the occupied areas are not citizens, everything you said from roads to other basic rights I assume you meant the in the West bank. Again, they are occupied people, not citizens. Arab citizens make 20% of Israels population and enjoy evey right just like i stated earlier. Is that what happened in South Africa too?

[The Immortal Goon]

There is a lot in this thread that could be cut. Please be courteous and use sources instead of insults. This will help your argument, and the board. Great smell of brute, this means you.

[ArtAllm]

I read it just fine. The palestinians living the the occupied areas are not citizens, everything you said from roads to other basic rights I assume you meant the in the West bank. Again, they are occupied people, not citizens. Arab citizens make 20% of Israels population and enjoy evey right just like i stated earlier. Is that what happened in South Africa too?

You have (deliberately?) ignored the most important parts of my post.

[GreenGoblin]

These long posts are where people stop reading, much better to do one at a time. But alright:

What would ADL say if the majority of American citizens decided to call USA a "Christian State" and forced the non-Christians in the USA (including Jews) to pledge allegiance to a Christian state?

Isn't Russia a Russian state or Spain a Spanish state? Jewish state means Jewish by race not religion. But again, this means nothing about minorities.

What would the ADL say if the American Interior minister announced that "USA belongs to the white man", and all black refugees must be imprisoned or kicked out of the USA?

How many times did victor countries at war take over territories and kick out the locals a few miles back? The violence is usually worst the harsher the war is and the more is at sake. The war in 1948 was mainly fought around the supply roads leading to Jewish villages. Arab militia would usually come out from their villages around the roads and attack supply trucks until forced out of these villages. Many, however simply escaped fearing that if they stayed they would be seen as 'collaborators of the Zionists', the whole Haifa Arab population for example. They probably thought the arabs will win and that they would be able to return later. Some also left in fear without being attacked by anyone and some where forced out. The exact numbers are debateable but the ones that stayed are citizens.

What would your "notable sources" say if there was no institution of civil marriage in the USA, and Jews were unable to marry non-Jews in America?

Jews may marry non Jews. It happens, i know a few myself.

What would your sources say if the migration to the USA were guided by racist laws, and 99,9 % of migrants to the USA were white Christians?

What if Germany today does not give you citizenship unless you have "German blood"? Many countries do that, it says nothing about how democratic they are.

What would your "notable sources" say, if the Native Americans were not permitted to get out of their reservations to use the infrastructure of the USA or use the roads, built through there reservations and were not permitted to live in any place of the USA they want?

Regarding the West Bank I assumed.

What would your "notable sources" say if American government destroyed the houses of Native Americans with bulldozers and created Christian white only settlements in the Reservations?

Again referring to the West Bank. Houses are demolished if they where built illegally or if, i think this is what you mean, their close family member committed a terror act.

What would ADL say if a prominent white Christian minister told his audience that Jews were created to serve the superior White Christians, like a donkey was created to serve his master, and this minister got the hugest funeral in the history of the USA and was called by the American government "our great Christian teacher"?

You mean Ovadia Yosef I presume. You will be surprised how little respect he has outside the ultra religious minority. They are very disliked for many other reasons too. You say it as if his the most respected man around. Well then his not.

What would ADL say if white doctors treated black women in the USA with depo-provera and reduced their fertility to a minimum?

This actually happened. Even in a democracy you find doushbags, but in a democracy these stuff stop when they go public.

[ArtAllm]

My Question:

What would ADL say if the majority of American citizens decided to call USA a "Christian State" and forced the non-Christians in the USA (including Jews) to pledge allegiance to a Christian state?

You have not answered this question.

Isn't Russia a Russian state or Spain a Spanish state?

Yes, Russia is a Russian state (speak a state of Russian citizens of different ethnicity and religion, the same with Spain or the USA).

Antibody with Spanish citizenship is Spanish, be he Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Atheist black, white or yellow.

But Israel is not an "Israeli state" (speak a state of Israeli citizens), it claims to be a "Jewish state", and that means that Israeli citizens who are not Jews are "de facto" second class citizens.

Zionists even admit that they are bothered about the demographic situation in Israel, they do not like the Israeli citizens who are not Jews.

Can you imagine an American government that openly declares that it is bad that there are less and less white Christians in the USA, and that USA must remain a "white Christian State"?

What would be the reaction of ADL and the "notable sources" you have mentioned?

Jewish state means Jewish by race not religion.

Wow!
You even admit that they mean "Jewish race", not "Jewish religion"!

That makes the situation even worse!
It is possible to change the citizenship and the religion, but it is impossible to change your background.

You basically admit that Israeli migration and citizenship laws are based on supposed racial criteria!

Thank you for admitting that!




My Question:

What would the ADL say if the American Interior minister announced that "USA belongs to the white man", and all black refugees must be imprisoned or kicked out of the USA?

There is still no answer to this question.

How many times did victor countries at war take over territories and kick out the locals a few miles back?

Well, there is a legal principle:
Nulla poena sine lege
(No punishment without a law).

Yes, people used to eat each others 3000 years ago, but if you try today to eat your neighbour, you will be imprisoned, because there is a law that prohibits cannibalism.

If you tell to the Judge "How many people have eaten other people in the past!", that will not impress the Judge, because he cannot apply modern laws to the behaviour of people that lived many years ago.

The same with ethnic cleansing and land acquisition via warfare.

It is illegal since the time the international law outlawed it, and you cannot apply this law to historical events that happened before this law was adopted.

Many, however simply escaped fearing that if they stayed they would be seen as 'collaborators of the Zionists', the whole Haifa Arab population for example.

It is understandable (after the Deir Yassin Massacre, which was used by Zionists to scare the native civilians, they recorded the sound of screaming women and children and played it via big loudspeakers in other Palestinian villages).

But according to the international law these refugees have the right to return to their homes. Israel violates the international law, because it does not permit them to return to their homes.


Question:

What would your "notable sources" say if there was no institution of civil marriage in the USA, and Jews were unable to marry non-Jews in America?

No answer to this question.

Jews may marry non Jews. It happens, i know a few myself.

What has this to do with my question?
I was talking about the institution of civil marriage that exists in the USA and that is forbidden in Israel, and I asked you what would be the reaction of ADL, if Americans outlawed the institution of civil marriage in the USA and refused to register a marriage of a Christian and Jew IN THE USA, like it is the case in Israel?

Question:

What would your sources say if the migration to the USA were guided by racist laws, and 99,9 % of migrants to the USA were white Christians?

No answer to this question.

What if Germany today does not give you citizenship unless you have "German blood"?

Today Germany does not have such laws.
These laws existed in the Third Reich.

Many countries do that, it says nothing about how democratic they are.

Can you name any country?

Question:

What would your "notable sources" say, if the Native Americans were not permitted to get out of their reservations to use the infrastructure of the USA or use the roads, built through there reservations and were not permitted to live in any place of the USA they want?

You have not answered this question.


Question:

What would your "notable sources" say if American government destroyed the houses of Native Americans with bulldozers and created Christian white only settlements in the Reservations?

You have ignored this question, too.

Houses are demolished if they where built illegally or if, i think this is what you mean, their close family member committed a terror act.

What would ADL or any other of "notable sources" say if American government ordered the destruction of hoses of Native Americans or Black Americans, because some of their close relatives committed some crimes?

And how can an occupied nation "illegally" build houses, if the whole occupation is illegal?

Question:

What would ADL say if a prominent white Christian minister told his audience that Jews were created to serve the superior White Christians, like a donkey was created to serve his master, and this minister got the hugest funeral in the history of the USA and was called by the American government "our great Christian teacher"?

You mean Ovadia Yosef I presume. You will be surprised how little respect he has outside the ultra religious minority.

Did you read my question you have quoted?
He got the biggest funeral since the creation of Israel, and Israeli leaders called him "our greatest teacher".

And you refused to answer my question. Read my question again and try to answer it.

Question:

What would ADL say if white doctors treated black women in the USA with depo-provera and reduced their fertility to a minimum?

This actually happened.
Even in a democracy you find doushbags, but in a democracy these stuff stop when they go public.

You refused to answer my question, read it again.
BTW, nobody was sued for that crime in Israel, nobody was punished for that, and that means that another white Israeli doctor can do it again and get away with it.

So you repeatedly refused to answer most of my questions, and that speaks volumes!



But thanks for admitting that with a "Jewish state" Zionists do not mean the religion, but "Jewish blood"!

[GreenGoblin]

You make this way more tiring then this needs to be. Pick a subject I'll answer it

[Tailz]

A friend of mine said to me, "The Israelis will bounce the rubble with missiles from afar, but if the rockets from Gaza kill an Israeli - bet you anything the Israeli's will send in the ground forces."

An Israeli was killed by mortar fire just recently.

Israel starts Gaza ground offensive

The Israeli military has begun a ground offensive against Palestinian militants in the Gaza Strip, extending its 10-day-old Operation Protective Edge.

It said it was in response to continued militant rocket fire and to strike a "significant blow to Hamas", which controls Gaza.

Hamas said Israel would pay a high price for the ground offensive.

There had been a five-hour humanitarian truce on Thursday, but exchanges of fire resumed when it ended.

Some 230 Palestinians and one Israeli have died during the Operation Protective Edge period.

Tunnels

In a statement, the Israel Defense Forces said: "Following 10 days of Hamas attacks by land, air and sea, and after repeated rejections of offers to de-escalate the situation, the IDF has initiated a ground operation within the Gaza Strip."

It said the goal was to "establish a reality in which Israeli residents can live in safety and security without continuous indiscriminate terror, while striking a significant blow to Hamas' terror infrastructure".

Military spokesman Gen Moti Almoz said: "I ask the residents of Gaza to evacuate the areas in which the army is operating. This operation will be extended as much as necessary."

Israel has approved the drafting of 18,000 more reservists.

One Hamas spokesman told Reuters news agency the ground offensive was "foolish" and would have "dreadful consequences".

Another, Fawzi Barhum, said: "The start of the Israeli ground attack on Gaza is a dangerous step, the consequences of which have not been calculated. Israel will pay a high price and Hamas is ready for the confrontation."

An intensive bombardment of Gaza by Israeli planes, artillery and ships has been taking place.

Media in Gaza have reported seeing Israeli commandos on the beach there.

The BBC's Yolande Knell in Gaza says journalists were warned to take shelter, shortly before the ground offensive announcement was made.

Other Gaza witnesses say 10 tanks have crossed the border into north-west Gaza.

Israeli media said one key aim of the ground offensive was to destroy tunnels that could be used to infiltrate militants into Israel.

An attempt by 13 militants to tunnel into Israel to attack a kibbutz on Wednesday had been thwarted by the Israeli military.

The BBC's Kevin Connolly in Jerusalem says it is possible that with the ground invasion Israel is seeking to improve its military position in advance of any deal, but that more probably it has concluded that a ceasefire at the moment in unlikely.

Israel says it has carried out more than 1,960 attacks on Gaza since 8 July, while militants have fired some 1,380 rockets at Israel.

The UN says at least 1,370 homes have been destroyed in Gaza and more than 18,000 people displaced in recent hostilities.

It says most of those killed in Gaza have been civilians.

Humanitarian truce

The ground offensive follows attempts in Cairo to negotiate a new ceasefire.

Egypt has been mediating the negotiations between Israel and Hamas.

There had been some reports that a new truce would start at 06:00 local time (03:00 GMT) on Friday.

However, both Israel and Hamas later dismissed the reports.

Thursday's temporary ceasefire had been requested by the UN and other international organisations to provide emergency relief and distribute water, food and hygiene kits to the people of Gaza.

The truce lasted from 10:00 and 15:00 local time, although both sides reported violations.

But almost immediately after it ended, Israel reported renewed militant rocket fire and there were fresh air strikes on targets in Gaza.

The health ministry in Gaza said one Israeli air strike had hit a home in the Sabra area of Gaza City, killing three children - aged between seven and 10 - from the same family.

So how many more people are going to get killed out of this fiasco?

frankly I don't think this is going to do any good for anyone. Sure the Israeli's might destroy a lot of rockets held by the militants, and kill a lot of militants too. But the civilian deaths and the damage to property, and the terror caused by the bombing, is just going to consolidate support against Israel, and turn people who were not supporters of Hamas before, into Hamas recruits!

[Godstud]

Four Palestinian children were killed by Israeli artillery fire, on a beach, as well. They are "looking into it", but I doubt anything will come of that. Source was BBC news yesterday.

Sure the Israeli's might destroy a lot of rockets held by the militants, and kill a lot of militants too. But the civilian deaths and the damage to property, and the terror caused by the bombing, is just going to consolidate support against Israel, and turn people who were not supporters of Hamas before, into Hamas recruits!

QFT. That's the real problem. They are nourishing hatred in the next generation.

[dcomplex]

Gazans already hate Israel as much as possible.

[wat0n]

A friend of mine said to me, "The Israelis will bounce the rubble with missiles from afar, but if the rockets from Gaza kill an Israeli - bet you anything the Israeli's will send in the ground forces."

An Israeli was killed by mortar fire just recently.

He was killed some days ago. The trigger for this escalation was the foiling of an infiltration attempt into Israel by 13 Hamas gunmen through one of the tunnels from Gaza.

So how many more people are going to get killed out of this fiasco?

Largely depends on which tunnels the Israeli intend to hit, and where.

frankly I don't think this is going to do any good for anyone. Sure the Israeli's might destroy a lot of rockets held by the militants, and kill a lot of militants too. But the civilian deaths and the damage to property, and the terror caused by the bombing, is just going to consolidate support against Israel, and turn people who were not supporters of Hamas before, into Hamas recruits!

Support for Hamas among Palestinians is significantly lower than it was some years ago.

[ArtAllm]

You make this way more tiring then this needs to be. Pick a subject I'll answer it

Just start with the first question and go on.
All questions are in plain English, you understand them, but you refuse to answer them, and that speaks volumes!

[GreenGoblin]

Common don't tell me you like writing a 5 page comment that will require a longer one afterwards

What would ADL say if the majority of American citizens decided to call USA a "Christian State" and forced the non-Christians in the USA (including Jews) to pledge allegiance to a Christian state?

Id say they are already pledged to the old USA so they don't need to do it again because the constitution changed. But in our case I guess you refer to the establishment of Israel? If they didn't want to live in a Jewish (again, by race) country, they should have either accepted the UN proposal on the creation of Palestine alongside Israel or moved to an Arab nearby country. I remind you at the time there was hardly a term "Jordanian" because the country was established by the British Empire around the time, Lebanon and Syria had a familiar story. Needless to say, Arabs who stayed in Israel where given citizenship and entered the system of law that applied to everyone else. I see no fault in Israel's democracy here

[ArtAllm]

What would ADL say if the majority of American citizens decided to call USA a "Christian State" and forced the non-Christians in the USA (including Jews) to pledge allegiance to a Christian state?

Id say they are already pledged to the old USA so they don't need to do it again because the constitution changed. But in our case I guess you refer to the establishment of Israel? If they didn't want to live in a Jewish (again, by race) country, they should have either accepted the UN proposal on the creation of Palestine alongside Israel or moved to an Arab nearby country. I remind you at the time there was hardly a term "Jordanian" because the country was established by the British Empire around the time, Lebanon and Syria had a familiar story. Needless to say, Arabs who stayed in Israel where given citizenship and entered the system of law that applied to everyone else. I see no fault in Israel's democracy here

What has your comment to do with my question?
My question is formulated in plain English, but you refuse to answer it.

[GreenGoblin]

Stop dancing around "Read my post again" i said i assumed you refer to the establishment of a Jewish state, if not then say so.

[ArtAllm]

Stop dancing around "Read my post again" i said i assumed you refer to the establishment of a Jewish state, if not then say so.

You are dancing around my questions, not me.
I cannot believe that you are unable to understand my questions that are written in plain English.
Your "answers" have nothing to do with my questions.