[Eamonor]

I am still a relatively new poster here so I don't if this topic has been discussed before but I am going for it.
I am interested to hear from all the Zionists on here why you support Israel.
For me as a Christian the reasons are mostly biblical but as I am not a theologian I tend to focus more on the secular modern moral reasons for supporting Israel when the topic is brought up.

[Dan_Bro]

Hello,
just for the record this the first time i am writing.
and now to the topic, as a citizen of Israel i must say that there as many jews who believe in the biblical right as there are those who don't.
I belong to those who don't from two simple reasons. The first, if you want to go to the past and see what land claims any nation you wont be able to stop because through history land and territories have always changed. the second reason, for many people Jewish or christian the bible is a way of guidness and values from the mouth of god, but to others like me it's like a history book. athough the reasons for what happened may not be as it written but most of what happened is true and we know that from science and archaeological excavations that are made all the time in israel and people and students from all over the world come to excavate. but what i am trying to say that you can't relay on the biblical right as THE right.
so what others litigation do we have? first of all, the "Resolution 181" of the UN which was passed with majority of agreement. it says that some of the land will go to the Jewish state and some to the arab state (there was no mention of the Palestinians as a nation, the first time they called themselves like that was in 1967, before that they were Egyptians,Jordanian and Syrian). the Jewish-Zionist leadership has agreed to the resolution although it wasn't in the benefit of them but the arab state did not agree and only because the Jewish state was included and not because the land was theirs as hey claim. one day after the resolution passed the arab countries have started a war against the Jewish community, not even the state!
another claim of the Zionism is the Jewish home, through history Jews were tritted as a second level citizens and suffered from antisemitism, so they have decided to say something and as many national movements in the 19th century the Zionist have become one, they developed and tributted a lot to today Israel's land. they had some other offers to build a community in Uganda Africa by the British empire, but the land was inhabitable and the british took their propsal of the table. so after all of those years of bad treatment, the Jews are being hunted for them wanting a home.
and the last main reason is the use of land, if you will look up, you can see that Israel is a very developed hi tech nation with a lot of technological, medical, energy saving and agriculture inventors and inventions that are being used through out the world. on the other hand, look at all the arab countries together, their use of land is much less efficient and much less productive. so to continue this development and help to the human race we must have a platform to do it, a base, rules that support science and free speech. but if this land will not be ours and it will be another arab state we will have no where to go and no where to continue it. we want peace and live happily with each others like we did int the first millennia.
we can not make peace if the other side wont even recognize as a state when actually we are.

i am very glad that there people who are wiling to discuss and not hate, if you would share our discussion to where ever you can and me too, i am sure that more people will understand better both sides of the conflict.

[noir]

For Israelis and nationalist Jews in the world it's home. Good or bad.

[quetzalcoatl]

Zionism mean different things to different people. It was originally a nineteenth/early twentieth century political movement whose aim was to reverse the diaspora and provide a homeland to the Jews of the world.

For modern Arabs, Zionist is simply a synonym for Jew - any Jew, anywhere. For instance, Leon Klinghoffer's status as a 'zionist' justified his killing.

For some elements of the left, Zionism refers to an international cabal of financial interests, usually focusing on Goldman-Sachs. Ditto for the right, with the addition of a Rothschilds/Soros obsession.

For casual liberals, zionism provides an opportunity for do-goodism in the form of divestment. Israel is the new South Africa, an apartheid regime. (It is, of course, but no worse than others who are ignored.)

For American Evangelicals, Zionism is a useful tool to bring about the Rapture. Conservative Israelis tolerate them as useful idiots. This strange alliance is useful to the internationalist wing of the GOP establishment.

So everybody can get a piece of the Zionist pie.

[Suntzu]

Because Muslims are the other side.

[noir]

Most interesting is the evolving of anti Zionism/anti semitism

Israeli author, Amos Oz: "I'll never forget something that my father told me: When he was a teenager in Europe, all the walls were covered with graffiti that said, 'Jews, Go to Palestine.' And when he went back to Europe as an adult, all the walls were covered with graffiti that said, 'Jews, Get Out of Palestine.' And my father understood this message perfectly, the emotional meaning of this message, which was: Get out of here and get out of there. Just don't come to us. Don't be here and don't be there. In other words, don't be. We may not kill you - that's dirty, we're not like that, but you will not be. You will die."

This one was taken in Norway. Throughout the rise of the Nazis, graffiti saying "Juden nach Palestina!", which means "Jews to Palestine!" And Boycott call appeared throughout Germany, as well as in all Jewish population centers in Europe.



On a Jewish-owned shop, Norwegian fascists painted the slogan: "Palestine is calling. Jews are not tolerated in Norway." Norway, after April 1940.

Yup, back then European antisemites were encouraging Jews to move TO Palestine.

Few decades later. On 22 July 2011, the Norwegian Anders Breivik massacred youth camp of leftist activists calling to boycott Israel and getting OUT of "Palestine".

[skinster]

[Zionist Nationalist]

Zionism is simply supporting a Jewish homeland for the Jewish people.

[Suntzu]

How many Muslim homelands are there?

[Eamonor]

but what i am trying to say that you can't relay on the biblical right as THE right.

I agree, which is why I think it is important to emphasise other arguments when discussing Israel.

Israeli author, Amos Oz: "I'll never forget something that my father told me: When he was a teenager in Europe, all the walls were covered with graffiti that said, 'Jews, Go to Palestine.' And when he went back to Europe as an adult, all the walls were covered with graffiti that said, 'Jews, Get Out of Palestine.' And my father understood this message perfectly, the emotional meaning of this message, which was: Get out of here and get out of there. Just don't come to us. Don't be here and don't be there. In other words, don't be. We may not kill you - that's dirty, we're not like that, but you will not be. You will die."

I am very aware of the hypocritical view many anti-Zionists take, but from personal experience it seems as if right wing anti-semites want all Jews to leave their country with a few going so far as to say Israel should not exist, while Left wing anti-semites don't think Israel should exist while a select few go so far as to not want Jews in their country. Progressives also seem to have no problem supporting Hamas as valiant freedom fighters against colonialism while still go into an overblown spastic fit over anything in western countries that could be perceived as anti-semitic.

[noir]

Sometimes they are the same people, or after generation their offspring took "left wing" views.

[Oxymoron]

Because supporting a Jewish homeland is the eternal duty of every Jew, which I am. As far as for the Gentiles, you must support Israel because the Muslims are blood thirsty animals and the common enemy of the west.

[Eamonor]

Because supporting a Jewish homeland is the eternal duty of every Jew, which I am. As far as for the Gentiles, you must support Israel because the Muslims are blood thirsty animals and the common enemy of the west.

What is your opinion on the alt-rights belief that white people deserve ethnically homogenous homelands, and that their struggle is morally equivalent to Zionism?
(I know Israel isn't ethnically homogenous, so the argument isn't exactly air-tight, but the alt-right usually cites the high-number of Jews present in anti-racist and pro diversity movements as evidence of a double standard when it comes to Zionism, and use that evidence as a reason not to support Zionism.)

[skinster]

[noir]

From the other side.

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/m ... rror-isis/

http://www.jpost.com/Metro/Cleaning-the-hate-488506

http://m.jpost.com/#/app/article/463272

[skinster]

This interview is good. It also considers the arguments for zionism too, if you want to call them that:
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/tavissmiley/int ... iko-peled/

[redcarpet]

Well it's natural for myself as a socialist. Third World nationalism is at the expense of colonialism and corporate-capitalism. Israel is one of many states born in the shadow of British imperialism (using the cover of the League of Nations).

I support all national groups having their own state, if they want one. The 1947 Partition Plan is a good idea, apart from the borders. With Jerusalem as an international capital under UN Administration. Neither side has proven they should get it. A pox on the leadership of both sides of the stupid Israeli-Arab conflict.

[Dan_Bro]

I disagree, in the un 1947 vote on jewish and arab state( notice that they didn't call them selves Palestinians until 20 years later) the jewish side has agreed to the borders although it wasn't the best option for them. on the other hand, the arabs said no to the proposal not because they didn't had all the land but because the fact that the existence of the jewish state was in the proposal. That shows the arabs don't really want a land of israel. they can live there as israeli citizens if they so care about this piece of land, which is the only home for the jews. They want the extinction of the israel as a western democratic state. This will of their's should concern us all as part of the democratic world.

we must keep Israel as a democratic state and the home for the jewish nation!

[redcarpet]

I disagree, in the un 1947 vote on jewish and arab state( notice that they didn't call them selves Palestinians until 20 years later) the jewish side has agreed to the borders although it wasn't the best option for them. on the other hand, the arabs said no to the proposal not because they didn't had all the land but because the fact that the existence of the jewish state was in the proposal. That shows the arabs don't really want a land of israel. they can live there as israeli citizens if they so care about this piece of land, which is the only home for the jews. They want the extinction of the israel as a western democratic state. This will of their's should concern us all as part of the democratic world.

we must keep Israel as a democratic state and the home for the jewish nation!

Your first point is late, I just said I don't like the borders. The 1949 UN re-drawn borders are better, but Israel's strategic smallness in all things is a major defense gap.

The second point is garbage. Israel is not the "only home for the jews". Most Jews demonstrate that by living elsewhere across the globe. From Britain to North America to Argentina to Melbourne where I live.

[noir]

@redcarpet, like your sig. Here it's in Hebrew