Will the Jews rebuild their Temple? - Page 4 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Political issues and parties in Israel, Gaza and the West Bank.

Moderator: PoFo Middle-East Mods

Forum rules: No one-line posts please. This is an international political discussion forum moderated in English, so please post in English only. Thank you.
#14951459
Just as my quote of Thessalonians was written by the apostle Paul, so were your quotes from Corinthians and Ephesians.

The apostle Paul also wrote to the Roman Gentiles, "God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew..."
(Romans 11:2)

This is backed up by the following:

For the LORD will not forsake His people; He will never abandon His heritage.
(Psalm 94:14)

Don't forget that the heritage of our Lord Jesus is Jewish.

Also don't forget that Jesus told His disciples that a day would come when the Jews would be dispersed among all the nations of the world and Jerusalem would be trampled down by the Gentiles. But then He added that when Jerusalem is no longer under Gentile control, He would return.
(Luke 21:24)

Jesus was simply emphasizing a point that is made repeatedly in the Hebrew Scriptures — namely, that when the Jews are restored to their land to the city of Jerusalem, the Messiah will come.
(Zechariah 12:3, 6, 8-10 and 13:1).
#14951466
Libertarian353 wrote:Oh, you going to hell soon. God doesn't like evil and you being a trump supporter is evil.

There is nothing evil about supporting the Trump of God.
Praise the Lord.
#14951477
Libertarian353 wrote:Oh, you going to hell soon. God doesn't like evil and you being a trump supporter is evil.

What? Half of all Americans will go to hell ?
I don't know why you are saying that because President Trump is quite benevolent towards the African-Americans.
#14951554
Ter wrote:What? Half of all Americans will go to hell ?
I don't know why you are saying that because President Trump is quite benevolent towards the African-Americans.

Yes, President Trump loves all law abiding people. Melania Trump just went on a trip to Africa to show their support for the Black race. She is becoming a wonderful First Lady.
#14952102
Hindsite wrote:The apostle Paul also wrote to the Roman Gentiles, "God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew..."


You shouldn't take that out of context though, for in this same chapter St. Paul states that the Jews have been cutoff and hardened and that the "remnant" he has preserved is due to this promise in Christ. Thus, the fulfillment of God not entirely throwing off the Jews is soley reflected in that some Jews are being converted to Christianity and not entirely closed out of the Kingdom of Heaven.

Notice the text, I will put in bold you citation plus the essential understanding from the broader passage of what that means:

I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! For I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham,[a] a member of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel? “Lord, they have killed your prophets, they have demolished your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life.” But what is God's reply to him? “I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5 So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.


Note here; those whom He forknew that He did not forsake (Jews); are only those Jews RIGHT NOW that God preserved as a remnant from the condemned whole that are saved purely by grace (became Christians); hence, this further supports the point that promises to the Jews were not honored in returning to their nation, temple, priesthood, and sacrifices, but only in some of them joining the TRUE people of God, The Church.


(v7 )What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened, 8 as it is written,

“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes that would not see
and ears that would not hear,
down to this very day.”

9 And David says,

“Let their table become a snare and a trap,
a stumbling block and a retribution for them;
10 let their eyes be darkened so that they cannot see,
and bend their backs forever.”


Now look here, the explanation of St. Paul goes into greater detail: Here we see that this remnant was preserved by Grace through the church and that the rest were cutoff and hardened from the People of God.

Hindsite wrote:For the LORD will not forsake His people; He will never abandon His heritage.


This is fulfilled in Christians, Christians are the people of God, circumcision profits nothing in the Kingdom now (Galatians 3). This was already show by how the New Testament interprets the OT texts (including this one).

Hindsite wrote:Don't forget that the heritage of our Lord Jesus is Jewish.


So what? He was the TRUE SEED of Abraham, and those is Him are the TRUE JEWS, the Christians alone. You and I are the true Jews, not some circumcised semite. Those who have been baptized into the Name of the Holy Trinity and are redeemed by faith in the work of Jesus Christ are the only people of God.

Hindsite wrote:Also don't forget that Jesus told His disciples that a day would come when the Jews would be dispersed among all the nations of the world and Jerusalem would be trampled down by the Gentiles. But then He added that when Jerusalem is no longer under Gentile control, He would return.


Several things on this text:

First of all, this is the same prophecy Christ gives in Matthew 24 when He proclaims the destruction of Jerusalem, this was fulfilled in that same generation as He promised. For Jerusalem was sacked by the Romans under Titus in A.D. 70. The secular jew Josephus details the account and its almost exactly as Christ declared it would happen. This was Christ "coming" in judgment on the city just as the Old Testament often described God "coming in judgment" on Jerusalem in the form of the Assyrians and Babylonians. Its a coming in judgment.

Note the immanent language (and how it CANNOT be referring to some future from us yet to be fulfilled without inserting unbiblical gaps into the biblical timeline):

Notice Sections in bold in both passages (1 to 1 and 2 to 2 for comparison):

(1) Jesus came out from the temple and was going away when His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him. And He said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.”As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

And Jesus answered and said to them, “See to it that no one misleads you. “For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many. “You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end. “For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes. “But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.

“Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. “At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another.“Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. “Because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will grow cold. “But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved. (2)“This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

(!) Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

(Matthew 24:1-14. 34)


(1)And while some were speaking of the temple, how it was adorned with noble stones and offerings, he said, “As for these things that you see, the days will come when there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.” And they asked him, “Teacher, when will these things be, and what will be the sign when these things are about to take place?” And he said, “See that you are not led astray. For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am he!’ and, ‘The time is at hand!’ Do not go after them. And when you hear of wars and tumults, do not be terrified, for these things must first take place, but the end will not be at once.”

But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near.Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let those who are inside the city depart, and let not those who are out in the country enter it, for these are days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written. Alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! For there will be great distress upon the earth and wrath against this people. They will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive among all nations, and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles, (2) until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. (Luke 21:5-9, 20-24)


We can see by a comparison of notes in bold labeled (1) that we have a description of the same event;

Likewise we see by comparison of notes labeled (2) that the "Gospel going out to all nations" is the same as "the times of the gentiles being fulfilled."

This means that the end will come only after the elect from every tribe, tongue, and nation have been redeemed by the Gospel ministry.

Thus, this passage CANNOT be talking about some future after the end of the "Gospel" or "New Covenant" era (what you would call the Christian dispensation), for the the gospel ministry is said to be fulfilled prior to the Rapture in Dispensational theology. Hence, we have a clear contradiction.

Further evidence gives us the answer in Matthew 24:24 which is put in bold as well with the (!) symbol.

The verse tells us, plainly, that what is prophesied in both Matthew 24 and Luke 21 are events that happened within the generation or lifetime of the Apostles.

So here is the questions @Hindsite, within the lifetime of the Apostles, was the Temple destroyed preceding what might be called "the era of the gentiles" or "the gospel going to all nations"?

YES.

The Temple was destroyed within 40 years of these words being spoken by our Lord.

And what happened after the judgment on the Jews?

The Gospel spread to the ends of the earth (to all nations); and when the Gospel has gone to all nations, then will Christ return (when the fullness of the gentiles have come in (Romans 11)).

Hence, there is no basis in this text to make it about the future yet, and thus it does not lend itself to any argument for the rebuilding of a temple in the future at all whatsoever.


Thus, the argument stands:

There is no biblical basis for the belief that there will be reconstructed Temple in Jerusalem. Christ is the true temple rebuilt in three days, and the destruction of the second temple as prophecy has already been fulfilled in history.

This is a closed case my friend.
#14952257
Victoribus Spolia wrote:First of all, this is the same prophecy Christ gives in Matthew 24 when He proclaims the destruction of Jerusalem, this was fulfilled in that same generation as He promised. For Jerusalem was sacked by the Romans under Titus in A.D. 70. The secular jew Josephus details the account and its almost exactly as Christ declared it would happen. This was Christ "coming" in judgment on the city just as the Old Testament often described God "coming in judgment" on Jerusalem in the form of the Assyrians and Babylonians. Its a coming in judgment.

There is no biblical basis for the belief that there will be reconstructed Temple in Jerusalem. Christ is the true temple rebuilt in three days, and the destruction of the second temple as prophecy has already been fulfilled in history.

You are been deceived by those that spiritualize too much of the scriptures.

After the Cross, a new entity came into existence—the church that Jesus Christ promised He would build. As a result, there are now three divisions of mankind: Jews, Gentiles, and the church. Paul tells us that we are to "Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God"

(1 Corinthians:10:32)

It is absolutely essential to understand that these three groups exist side by side in today’s world, to distinguish between them, and to recognize that God deals with each differently.

Essential also is an understanding that the church was created through offering to both Jews and Gentiles a “new covenant” relationship with God. This did not bring Gentiles under the Jewish Mosaic law (as some erroneously teach) but delivered from it those coming into the church, both Jews and Gentiles.

(Ephesians:2:11-22)

Those who teach that the church is Israel go on to claim that the church is heir to all of the promises given to Israel. This is as ludicrous as claiming that “the land of Israel” is now “the land of the church.”

Why 3rd Temple MUST BE Rebuilt!
Published on Jul 18, 2018



TRUMP FULFILLED DANIEL'S PROPHECY
Published on Apr 27, 2018



Donald Trump announced Jerusalem as the capital of Israel right on time with Daniel's prophecy about an anointed prince who comes 49 years after the Jews begin rebuilding Jerusalem. Is Donald Trump the anointed prince? He appears right on time with Daniel's prophecy. The Sanhedrin and Mikdash Educational Center also minted the temple coin with Donald Trump and Cyrus together. King Cyrus was the anointed one in Isaiah's prophecy. Now Donald Trump has been placed next to him. Everything seems to point to Donald Trump as being the anointed ruler in Daniel's 70 weeks prophecy. Trump has ordered the opening of the US embassy on May 14, 2018. It is exactly 70 years from when Israel became a nation on May 14, 1948. But what makes Donald Trump the anointed leader in Daniel's prophecy is that he proclaimed Jerusalem Israel's capital. Daniel prophesied an anointed ruler would appear 49 years after the Jews start to rebuild Jerusalem. A command to rebuild Jerusalem went out in 1968. Donald Trump appeared 49 years later and proclaimed Jerusalem as Israel's capital. End time bible prophecy has just been fulfilled.

The TRUMP PROPHECY coins are being made according to Leviticus Law and Biblical Law, and by the Sanhedrin themselves.

The Sanhedrin is an ancient tribunal of rabbis in the Land of Israel who would be over the construction and running of the third temple should it be built. The Sanhedrin is the council of the high priest.

The Sanhedrin have infact depicted Trump on a coin that meets Biblical prophecy. More than this, the "Trump coins" are like a prophecy of Trump all in themselves.

Each Trump coin is a REAL Half Shekel and the medal is made according to Levitical Law from pewter metal with at least 9.6 grams of halachically required pure silver. This would be what is required as the Third Temple tax should the temple be rebuilt according to Biblical prophecy.
#14952271
Hindsite wrote:You are been deceived by those that spiritualize too much of the scriptures.


So it comes to personal attacks eh?

Prove it.

I would claim I am taking the Scriptures more literally than you are.

Please explain how the prophecy in Luke 21 and Matthew 24 can be for a future event if they are said to be fulfilled in "that generation?"

So, do you believe that the Bibe is the literal and authoritative Word of God and not subject to the authority of men? OR do you believe the temple will be rebuilt in the future? Because you clearly cannot have both. Luke 21 and Matthew 24 are either talking about events in the first century (my position), or the biblical cannot be interpreted literally (because your position would have to insert gaps that are not in the biblical text to garner your conclusions);

So whats it going to be?

Every text on the temple you have presented have been answered. St. Paul and Jesus Christ, by their own words, preclude the possibility of a rebuilt temple. The texts are either referring to the first century, the church, or Christ Himself.

The issue has been settled and you have yet to give a textual rebuttal.

Hindsite wrote:It is absolutely essential to understand that these three groups exist side by side in today’s world, to distinguish between them, and to recognize that God deals with each differently.

Essential also is an understanding that the church was created through offering to both Jews and Gentiles a “new covenant” relationship with God. This did not bring Gentiles under the Jewish Mosaic law (as some erroneously teach) but delivered from it those coming into the church, both Jews and Gentiles.


I have already answered your claims on this, St. Paul has made clear that those who are in Christ are the heirs of the promises to Israel, Christians are the NEW Israel. This matter is definitively settled in Scripture, but I will quote the text for you and give you the commentary that is absolutely devastating for your position (a position I once held in my days as a teenager).

Here is Galatians 3:7-29, I will break it up in sections now with commentary:

Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith. (Galatians 3:7-9)


Here is St. Paul's thesis statement for his following argument in verse 7, those of faith (Christians) are the sons of Abraham. FULL-STOP. There is no distinction between Jew and gentile and blood/circumcision counts for nothing. Christians are the true Jews and the Church is the True Israel. Its that simple.

But also notice that the church is not a "NEW" idea (NOT what C.I. Scofield described as a "paranthesis" is God's work with the Jews); rather it was something that "The Scriptures foreknew" (v8) and that the Gospel was "preached beforehand to Abraham"; however, if the Gospel is something that only exists for the church age, then how can it be preached beforehand?

Clearly, neither the church or the Gospel are new, they are part of God's eternal work from start to finish. Abraham was justified by faith as were ALL the Old Testament saints, there were not different ways of salvation in different dispensations. That is all nonsense. There was only ever Law and Gospel and the covenants that ratified such via the Promises of God.

For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.” But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith. (Galatians 3:10-14)


Here again, the Gospel is made clear, that Christ took upon Himself the curse of the law that kept all, both Jew and Gentile in darkness, upon Himself on the Cross. Through the Work of Christ, the blessing of Abraham has come to the gentiles (v14). Note: its not merely the Gospel, but the Gospel as the blessing of Abraham that was given to the gentiles. This means that its not simply that in this "NEW" period of the church God has decided to arbitrarily grant salvation to gentiles and Jews through Jesus. Rather, Christ has fulfilled the entire point of the Old Testament with ALL of its promises and has extended those promises to the gentiles.

How can you possibly miss this point?

To give a human example, brothers: even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified. Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ. This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise. (Galatains 3:15-18)


This answers your objection again, there is no separate categories as you say, gentiles, Jews, and the church. Rather, there is ONE offspring of Abraham, ONE. According to Scripture the only true offspring (seed in KJV) of Abraham is Christ, and the only people who are the offspring of Abraham (and recipients of this promise) and those united to Christ (those who have faith and are members of the church).

Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary. Now an intermediary implies more than one, but God is one. Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law. But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. (Galatians 3:19-22)


The promise is given to those who might believe (not the law of circumcision, the whole point of Paul's letter to the church in Galatia).

Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise. (Galatians 3:23-29)


The apex of the argument. Pretty much settles the matter.

its so plain it hardly needs explaining. In Christ, we are all sons of God, all of those who were baptized have put on Christ by God's grace (not of works), there is no distinction. IT doesn't matter your ethnicity (including whether or not you are a Jew), it doesn't matter if you are rich or poor, slave or free, male or female. If you are baptized into Christ and believe in His promises salvation by faith, then you a Christian and a son of Abraham; that is, you are a Jew and Israelite. Christians and Christians alone are the true sons of Abraham and the Church of Jesus Christ is the true Israel.

Hindsite wrote:This did not bring Gentiles under the Jewish Mosaic law (as some erroneously teach) but delivered from it those coming into the church, both Jews and Gentiles.


Actually it did, the Law is upheld in Christ. Christ says so Himself in Matthew 5:17-19 in which he argues that every command is to be regarded as binding in His Kingdom (other than those that are explicitly made obsolete according to the book of Hebrews-----the ceremonial law).

Likewise, St. Paul also makes clear that the Law is still our moral standard?

Examine Romans 3:28-31:

For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.


Clearly the OT Law is binding according to St. Paul as a moral standard and a basis of restraint (it also shows us our sin and need for the Gospel). BUT beyond this, assuming your position that it wasn't, you would have to take the position that the only OT moral commandments that are binding in the New Testament are those that are explicitly restated. However, if this was your position, what about bestiality? Bestiality is never restated as immoral in the New Testament, so would that mean you believe Christians can fuck Goats and not sin? :eh:


Hindsite wrote:Those who teach that the church is Israel go on to claim that the church is heir to all of the promises given to Israel. This is as ludicrous as claiming that “the land of Israel” is now “the land of the church.”


Whats wrong with that? :lol:

Image

Besides Ephesians 2:11-12 parallels St. Paul's word elsewhere in Galatians 3 (as quoted above) quite nicely. The distinction is over. Christ is the Seed of Abraham, and we being united to Him by faith are the true heirs of ALL the promises made to Abraham.

Hindsite wrote:Donald Trump announced Jerusalem as the capital of Israel right on time with Daniel's prophecy about an anointed prince who comes 49 years after the Jews begin rebuilding Jerusalem. Is Donald Trump the anointed prince? He appears right on time with Daniel's prophecy. The Sanhedrin and Mikdash Educational Center also minted the temple coin with Donald Trump and Cyrus together. King Cyrus was the anointed one in Isaiah's prophecy. Now Donald Trump has been placed next to him. Everything seems to point to Donald Trump as being the anointed ruler in Daniel's 70 weeks prophecy. Trump has ordered the opening of the US embassy on May 14, 2018. It is exactly 70 years from when Israel became a nation on May 14, 1948. But what makes Donald Trump the anointed leader in Daniel's prophecy is that he proclaimed Jerusalem Israel's capital. Daniel prophesied an anointed ruler would appear 49 years after the Jews start to rebuild Jerusalem. A command to rebuild Jerusalem went out in 1968. Donald Trump appeared 49 years later and proclaimed Jerusalem as Israel's capital. End time bible prophecy has just been fulfilled.

The TRUMP PROPHECY coins are being made according to Leviticus Law and Biblical Law, and by the Sanhedrin themselves.

The Sanhedrin is an ancient tribunal of rabbis in the Land of Israel who would be over the construction and running of the third temple should it be built. The Sanhedrin is the council of the high priest.

The Sanhedrin have infact depicted Trump on a coin that meets Biblical prophecy. More than this, the "Trump coins" are like a prophecy of Trump all in themselves.

Each Trump coin is a REAL Half Shekel and the medal is made according to Levitical Law from pewter metal with at least 9.6 grams of halachically required pure silver. This would be what is required as the Third Temple tax should the temple be rebuilt according to Biblical prophecy.


This is all nonsense, if Daniel's seventy weeks were taken literally (ironically as I do), then the would have been completed in the era of the Apostles, not our own time, unless you insert an artificial gap in the text of two millennia!!!

This is all crazy talk.

Your whole system of Dispensationalism originates in a cult-leader whos ideas and works originated the 1800s.

Thus, not only is your position biblically false, its an invention of men, for the Church, that Christ has preserved since the the begginning, has always held to the position I just defended here.

John Nelson Darby is considered by some to be the father of dispensationalism,[8]:10, 293 which was adopted, modified, and made popular in the United States by the Scofield Reference Bible. Charles Henry Mackintosh (1820–96) popularized Darby more than any other Brethren author.[citation needed]

Dispensationalism was introduced to North America by James Inglis (1813–72) through the monthly magazine Waymarks in the Wilderness, published intermittently between 1854 and 1872.[citation needed] During 1866, Inglis organized the Believers' Meeting for Bible Study, which introduced dispensationalist ideas to a small but influential circle of American evangelicals. They were disturbed by the inroads of religious liberalism and saw premillennialism as an answer. Dispensationalism was introduced as a premillennial position, and it largely took over the fundamentalist movement, over a period of several decades. The American church denominations rejected Darby's ecclesiology but accepted his eschatology. Many of these churches were Presbyterian and Baptist, and they retained Darby's Calvinistic soteriology.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dispensationalism
#14952436
Victoribus Spolia wrote:Please explain how the prophecy in Luke 21 and Matthew 24 can be for a future event if they are said to be fulfilled in "that generation."?

“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
(Matthew 24: 15-22)

Obviously, the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in 70 A.D. is not the worst time in human history, so it should be clear that this great tribulation has not happened yet.

In the opinion of most experts "the generation" that Jesus speaks of “not passing” is a future generation, namely, the people living when the predicted events occur. The word generation refers to the people alive in the future when the events of Matthew 24–25 take place.

Jesus' phrase, "there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now" (Matt. 24:21; see Mark 13:19 for a variation) has a specific end-time ring. This phrase is similar to the one in Daniel 12:1, that describes the last generation of saints. Equally compelling is Jesus' prediction: Immediately after the distress of those days [of Dan. 12:1] "the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken" (Matt.24:29).

This chronological pinpointing of "all these things" in the sky "immediately after the distress," can find its complete fulfillment only in the generation that experiences the endtime distress or "time of Jacob's trouble" (Jer. 30:5-7; Gen. 32:23-26) of Daniel 12:1. This will take place during the seven last plagues that cause the cosmic upheavals and directly usher in the second advent (Rev. 16:10, 17-21).

Luke's Gospel presents the cosmic signs as an unbreakable unit and process that introduces the return of Christ for the last generation: "There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. Men will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken. At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near" (Luke 21:25-28).

The generation that witnesses all these things is the one that will live during the seven last plagues (see Rev. 16:10,17-21) and will certainly not pass away before it sees the advent of Christ as the Judge and Deliverer.

Looking at the larger textual unit of Matthew 23-25, one can discern a broad chiastic structure (23:1-24:14 paralleling 24:15-25:46), with the phrase "this generation" occurring twice (23:36 and 24:34). Discussing this literary composition, S. J. Kidder states: "The first 'generation' was to witness the signs on earth, the second was to witness the signs in heaven." This means that just as the unbelieving generation of Jesus' time saw the sign of Jerusalem's destruction (23:36), so will the unbelieving generation of the end time see the sign of Christ's coming in the clouds of heaven (24:34).

Christ bestowed on all His followers the duty to watch for the fulfillment of the signs of the times, especially of the supreme sign of all: the coming of the Son of Man on a cloud of glory. They should never think that His return is far away, because no one knows the exact timing of His coming. He will arrive unexpectedly and suddenly (Mark 13:32; Matt. 24:36).

In every generation the disciples of Christ must cultivate an expectant attitude toward the future: "What I say to you, I say to everyone: Watch!" (Mark 13:37). The first-century Christians saw some of the signs of the age fulfilled before their eyes. Therefore they anticipated the end with intensified hope. Many believers during the Middle Ages experienced the predicted signs of apostasy, great distress, and horrible persecution. During the Advent awakening in the nineteenth century, many saw the natural upheavals on earth and in the sky of their time as forerunners of the Second Coming. How much the more do we need to be alert today and seek a better understanding of the prophecies of Jesus' coming! We may be the generation that will see all the signs fulfilled.

Victoribus Spolia wrote:This answers your objection again, there is no separate categories as you say, gentiles, Jews, and the church. Rather, there is ONE offspring of Abraham, ONE. According to Scripture the only true offspring (seed in KJV) of Abraham is Christ, and the only people who are the offspring of Abraham (and recipients of this promise) and those united to Christ (those who have faith and are members of the church).

The promise is given to those who might believe (not the law of circumcision, the whole point of Paul's letter to the church in Galatia).

Scripturally we find the Church is not Israel the nation but a separate entity under an entirely new covenant. Israel is called the wife of Jehovah, while the Church is called the bride of Christ, showing distinctions in how God relates to each. The word Israel is always descriptive of the physical descendants of Abraham, Issac and Jacob. It was Jacob who’s name was changed to Israel and had 12 sons that became that nation.

Many transfer the promises and the covenants to Israel to the Church, but there is absolutely no reason to do this. The Church is not spiritual Israel. Look it up, you’ll never find the term or concept in the Bible. There are only two verses that are used to validate this view, both are unsupported in their context.

Gal.3:29 says that those who belong to Christ are Abraham’s seed. The seed of Abraham does not mean one is Israel. It Means those who are justified by faith are spiritual descendants of Abraham but this does not make them descendants of Jacob who is Israel. They partake in the spiritual blessings that come through Israel. While there are two different groups of people who can be descendants of Abraham one of which is the Arabs, they do not share in the promises of Jacob. Only Israel is descended from the physical posterity of Jacob.

The other verse is Gal.6:16 where Paul is addressing both believing Jews and Gentiles in the church "As many as walk according to this rule (Gentile believers) and upon "the Israel of God." In its context this term means Jews who are believers, who believe salvation is by faith in Christ contrary to what the Judaizers were teaching that the law was needed also. Paul also addresses this in Rom.9:6-8 that there are two Israel's, one that consists of Jews and the elect, the true Israel which are the physical posterity and also have the faith of Abraham, they are the Israel of God mentioned in Gal.6. As Paul states, " for they are not all Israel who are of Israel." (Rom.9:6). There is also "Israel" after the flesh found in 1 Cor.10:18. The Church is never called spiritual Israel or is a new Israel replacing the old. Nor does it say believers become Jews. Both gentiles and Jews participate together in the New Covenant. as Eph 2 addresses the middle wall of partition being broken down and God makeing a new entity.

In the N.T we have three terms used alongside each other, Israel, Gentiles and the Church. The Church consists of both believing Gentiles and Jews while Israel as a nation is in unbelief as are the Gentiles. The Church and Israel are two distinct groups and God has a different program for each. Both are brought in make up the body of Christ. The name Israel is used 20 times and the church 19 times in the book of Acts, both are kept distinct While there is no difference in salvation for both, Gods plans are different for each. In the book of Acts Israel and the church exist alongside each other, nowhere is the church called the new or spiritual Israel. There are certain areas the differences of Jew and gentile are erased but in all areas. Such as we becoming one in Christ all the same way 1 Cor.12:13 , according to the NT a Jew is one that is not only outwardly by the flesh but inwardly, this obviously can't be for a gentile. So for a gentile, there is no such thing as a spiritual Jew from the inside only, but there is such a thing as spiritual gentiles.

If you claim to be Israel then you were cut off according to Romans.11. And where the natural branch once was, God grafted in unnatural ones the Gentiles. It doesn't get any clearer. The teaching of God abandoning Israel the nation or replaced by the Church did quite well for almost 1,500 hundred years until he actually gave them back their land AND STARTED TO REGATHER THEM FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD JUST AS HE SAID HE WOULD. God said in Neh. 1:8 if you are unfaithful I will scatter you.' but he also said...

Jer.30:18, 31:8 "Behold I will bring them from the north country and gather them from the ends of the earth."

Isa.43:5 I will bring your descendants from the east and gather you from the west...

It is a nation that is being gathered today for the tribulation, they are gathered first in unbelief until that fateful day where in Romans 11 Paul says they will all be saved after the fullness of the gentiles has come in. The Church is dealt with differently than the nation of Israel.

Please view the the previous Youtube video on Why the 3rd Temple must be built.
#14989469
Third Jewish Temple Will Be Rebuilt! Fulfilling Bible Prophecy

RevelationEndTime
Published on Apr 12, 2018



The True Site of the Holy Temple in Jerusalem

Rebecca Lloyd
Published on Sep 26, 2016



The Temple | Bob Cornuke

Published on Jul 3, 2017



Can you imagine the upheaval in political and religious thinking if the Temple Mount in Jerusalem is not the site of Solomon's and Herod's temples? And what if the stones of the Wailing Wall are not what tradition says?
#14989479
What I cannot understand for the life of me is this cult which is getting a boner over the religious building of another religion which if built, would be a direct defiance against the Christian idea of Christ's work of man's salvation on the Cross, re-instituting animal sacrifices for sin in a Jewish Temple.

Real Christians would consider this an act of spiritual blasphemy against their God, a literal ''Abomination of Desolation'' sitting in the ''Temple of God'', but these kooks go into ecstasies of pleasure over the prospect, because they believe that they will cheat natural death shortly thereafter.

Fortunately for true Christians and normal human beings, there will not be a Jewish Temple rebuilt, and the verse these wicked scum reference to refer to a ''Jewish Temple'' refers to the Christian Church, the ''Temple of God'' in the New Covenent for men's salvation. The ''Man of Sin'' appearing there in the Temple of God ''as if he were God'' means something other than what they think it does, of course.
#14989480
Hindsite wrote:“But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
(Matthew 24: 15-22)

Obviously, the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in 70 A.D. is not the worst time in human history, so it should be clear that this great tribulation has not happened yet.


Yes it was.... For the Jews in Jerusalem, it was Hell on Earth.... It was the Apocalypse for them. And prior to that the Roman Army had decimated the entire countryside. Overall they killed 1.1 Million Jews in a Siege of Jerusalem ALONE(The Jews had descended enmass upon the holy city as they usually did in times of trouble). That's 1/5th the modern Jews killed in the 1940s Holocaust.

But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!


Be prepared because you may be about to puke:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_of_Bethezuba

Jesus words came terrifyingly frighteningly true.

They left her in horror and the “entire city could not stop thinking of this crime and abomination”. When the news reached the Romans, “some refused to believe, some were distressed but on most the effect was to add enormously to their detestation” of the enemy at hand.


The Jews in Jerusalem had taken to eating their own babies..... The Romans were there to deliver the Judgement of Elohim against Jerusalem.

The Olivet Discourse IS about 70AD.
#14989491
Yes, some prophesy has been fulfilled many centuries ago, while others have yet to be fulfilled. In recent centuries, there has been a concerted effort behind the scenes to divert persons into either a total preterist position on prophesy, or a total futurist position, and both are equally wrong. Fact is, the Apocalypse is a book that shows the whole history of the Church in symbolic form, from 33 AD to the Second Coming.
#14989497
annatar1914 wrote:The ''Man of Sin'' appearing there in the Temple of God ''as if he were God'' means something other than what they think it does, of course.

What does it mean to you? I believe it requires the rebuilding of a Jewish Temple.

colliric wrote:Yes it was.... For the Jews in Jerusalem, it was Hell on Earth.... It was the Apocalypse for them. And prior to that the Roman Army had decimated the entire countryside. Overall they killed 1.1 Million Jews in a Siege of Jerusalem ALONE(The Jews had descended enmass upon the holy city as they usually did in times of trouble). That's 1/5th the modern Jews killed in the 1940s Holocaust.

The 1940s Holocaust will not be the worst time in human history either. It was not the great tribulation referred to in the Holy Bible. I believe the words of Jesus are true, but everything Jesus spoke about has not yet been fullfilled.

colliric wrote:The Olivet Discourse IS about 70AD.

It is important to recognize that Jesus’ teaching in this discourse is in reference to Israel and not the Church. Christ was speaking of God’s future program for Israel. The destruction of Jerusalem was but a foreshadowing of what is yet to come. Jesus tells them that His second coming will be immediately after the tribulation of those days. This obviously is yet to be fullfilled.

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then tall the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven vwith power and great glory. And whe will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from athe four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

(Matthew 24:29-31)

THE COMING TEMPLE



Filmed in the Old City of Jerusalem, this ground-breaking documentary investigates the research of renowned Biblical archaeologists, Bob Cornuke, David Seilaff and Earnest L. Martin who claim that Solomon and Herod's Temples never stood on the Haram al Sharif, also known as the Temple Mount. If they are right, then there is nothing to stop the Jewish people building their long awaited for Third Jewish Temple in the actual site where the Temples once stood.
#14989499
Hindsite wrote:If they are right, then there is nothing to stop the Jewish people building their long awaited for Third Jewish Temple in the actual site where the Temples once stood.


Yes there is:
The Jewish people are Stubborn Hindsite.

THEY WILL NEVER AGREE WITH ANYONE WHO SAYS THE TEMPLE WAS ELSEWHERE AND THEY SHOULD TRY AND BUILD IT ELSEWHERE...

This Temple has ZERO chance of being Torah correct.... There's no way the Sanhedrin and other Priests could prove they are of the correct linages because THE ROMANS BURNT THE ANCESTRAL RECORDS.

But I guess as a Christian Zionist it's not the point to you is it? I mean you just want them to build a fake one for the Anti-Christ and then have Jesus return to get rid of him and trash it hey?
#14989501
Hindsite wrote:What does it mean to you? I believe it requires the rebuilding of a Jewish Temple.


Like I said on another thread, I'm not here to win friends (although I do have them here, and I value them) or influence people (harder to measure), so I'll say what all Protestants before the 1800's said, and all true Orthodox Christians as well; the Papacy is the Antichrist, since 1054 AD when they left the Orthodox Christian faith and set themselves up in the place of Christ in the Church, in a church which had previously been faithful to the Apostolic doctrine of Christ. The Last Pope will be the sum and seal of all the others of his heretical and schismatic line of false Bishops.

So it doesn't require a Jewish Temple, don't lay your errors on them. Someday they will come to the truth, and it won't ''predict'' their near destruction in a new holocaust like your teachings require of them.

And speaking of your teachings, did you know that two Roman Catholic priests invented them in the 16th and 19th centuries? Read about Father Ribera and futurism, and Father Manuel Lancunza. They were tasked in their different times to persuade people that the Papacy was not Antichrist....

The foolishness comes from them.
#14989508
annatar1914 wrote:Like I said on another thread, I'm not here to win friends (although I do have them here, and I value them) or influence people (harder to measure), so I'll say what all Protestants before the 1800's said, and all true Orthodox Christians as well; the Papacy is the Antichrist, since 1054 AD when they left the Orthodox Christian faith and set themselves up in the place of Christ in the Church, in a church which had previously been faithful to the Apostolic doctrine of Christ. The Last Pope will be the sum and seal of all the others of his heretical and schismatic line of false Bishops.

So it doesn't require a Jewish Temple, don't lay your errors on them. Someday they will come to the truth, and it won't ''predict'' their near destruction in a new holocaust like your teachings require of them.

And speaking of your teachings, did you know that two Roman Catholic priests invented them in the 16th and 19th centuries? Read about Father Ribera and futurism, and Father Manuel Lancunza. They were tasked in their different times to persuade people that the Papacy was not Antichrist....

The foolishness comes from them.

I believe the Antichrist could be a Muslim.

https://www.compellingtruth.org/Muslim-antichrist.html

https://vergadering.nu/boek/the-islamic-antichrist.htm

"8 Signs of the Coming Third Temple"

by Don Stewart

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7

Psychopaths and sociopaths can be dangerous. N[…]

Election 2020

He's expecting Biden or Sanders, so it does exp[…]

https://twitter.com/camilateleSUR/status/120169059[…]

The Next UK PM everybody...

I tried to do the quoting but I give up after som[…]