A different two-state solution - Page 3 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15087638
colliric wrote:And MeToo sounds delusional, like a raving lunatic refusing to admit his country commits war crimes daily and holds eternal interest to outsiders and non-Jews because it's the literal birthplace of Christianity and important to Roman and later Islamic history. No we won't leave it alone. Read an uncensored Second Temple Period Jewish History book. Should give you a good idea why.


I do apologise for the delayed response, I never noticed your outburst here. Be it as it may, - please understand that what you call 'war crimes', some other enlightened individuals may call a process of liberation. How are we to judge which is correct? For that we may turn to Romans,- the victor writes the history! Need I say more?

You are within your rights "not to leave it alone", and please don't, - as it provides an ongoing entertainment, however, Christianity has no say in Jewish affairs. Simply put, - the Jews do not care for Christianity as much as you do. Well, - the Jews do respect Christian tenets, even though most Jews find them to simplistic.

Yes, the Holy Land is important to you, well,- but it is more important to Israelis, - they live there, you don't, and, therefore, you or your Christian beliefs have no say in any matter when it comes to Israel's way of doing things.

You, in your capacity as a devout Christian, are overstaying your own importance here.

The land of Israel is not a religious land, - Israel is a secular country that walks a fine line between Judaizm, as seen from religious perspective, and Zionism as a purely political endeavour. The uniqueness of Israel is that Zionism is inseparably connected to Judaism. I know that it is a complicated logical construct for you, but then again, you have never gone to a Jewish school. Any 1st grader attending a Jewish day school will be comfortable with the above.

Judaism is a liberal and progressive way of life, that can adopt to the changing of times without changing itself.

So, - let's leave religion to scholars and turn to law, ok?
#15087645
Miko Peled wrote:There's nothing Jewish about Israel. The Zionists secularised Judaism and decided Jews are a nation. They secularised the Bible and turned it into a history book. They did this on their own. The fact is most Jews do not live in Israel. They did not heed the call of Zionism and most of the people who do live under Israeli rule are not Jews. There's nothing inherently Jewish about holding thousands of political prisoners. There's nothing inherently Jewish about racist laws. There's nothing inherently Jewish about denying children water because they are non-Jews. So there is nothing Jewish about Israel.
#15087648
skinster wrote:Their country got stolen by people like you and you've since stole it in its entirety, as well as land of neighbouring countries. Plans for this theft of Palestine were stated by the early Zionist leaders and their comments are well documented. They weren't bullshitting but their online hasbarists like you lie about this for some reason. In 2020. :lol:



So non-Jews like you can settle in Palestine? See? That's what I meant about it not being a "Jewish Homeland".

Now, this "Jewish Homeland" appears to include more non-Jews than Jews but is still referred to by weirdos as a "Jewish Homeland" as if it is only Jewish, when it quite clearly is not.

Weird also how there are more Jews outside of "Israel" than there are inside. How come the U.S. isn't called a "Jewish Homeland" when it has more Jews in the country than "Israel" does?

How confusing this all is! :D


You are just ignorant about the whole situation funny how much you care about an issue that have nothing to do with you or your life
there are about 350K non Jews immigrants in Israel its a tiny percentage of the population and that compared with Arabs Druze and some other minorities consist of 25% non Jews.
#15087666
Metoo wrote:You are within your rights "not to leave it alone", and please don't, - as it provides an ongoing entertainment, however, Christianity has no say in Jewish affairs. Simply put, - the Jews do not care for Christianity as much as you do. Well, - the Jews do respect Christian tenets, even though most Jews find them to simplistic.


Netanyahu famously disagrees with you. Meets Christian leaders all the time, especially the Pope, and is the PM responsible for building the Jesus Trail and being more active in promoting Christian tourism and even Christian immigration to Israel. He has also been active in surpressing bigoted anti-christian groups like Ben-Zion Gopstein's Lehava.

Here he is inviting all Christians to come to Israel:


And again in 2013:


And here he is famously being corrected about Jewish history by the Pope:


And here he is speaking to the Christian Media Summit (in a regular address):


And here he is speaking in his also annual speech to Christians United For Israel (Pastor Hagee's Christian Zionist nutcases):


We can however criticise him over his treatment and even murder of Palestinian Christians and the fact he has never fully surpressed Kahane's lunatic fringe.
#15087667
Israel's population hits 9.2 million for 72nd Independence Day

Jews comprise 74% of the population. Numbers expected to hit 11.1 million in 2030 and in 2048, when Israel will mark its 100th Independence Day, the population is expected to reach 15.2 million.

As Israel prepares to celebrate its 72nd Independence Day, the Central Bureau of Statistics has published the latest numbers on the nation's population.

Israel is home to 9,190,000 people, including 6.8 million Jews (74% of the population), 1.93 million Arabs (21%), and 454,000 citizens of other ethnicities, who comprise approximately 5% of the population.

Since Independence Day of 2019, the country's population has increased by 171,000 or 1.9%. A total of 180,000 babies were born; 32,000 new immigrants arrived; and 44,000 Israelis died.

When the state was founded, its population stood at 806,000. Since 1948, 3.3 million immigrants have arrived, 44% of whom made aliyah in 1990 or the years that followed.

Image

Population growth projections indicate that in 2030, Israel's population will stand at 11.1 million, and in 2040, 13.2 million. According to the projections, when Israel marks its 100th Independence Day in 2048, its population will be 15.2 million.

The CBS data shows that 45% of Jews in the world live in Israel, and that 78% of the Jews in Israel were born in the country.


https://www.israelhayom.com/2020/04/28/ ... dence-day/

To indulge the not so intelligent zealots who dream of transforming the Jewish Homeland into Islamic shit hole #58, where should the 78% Jews go who were born in Israel ?
#15087672
Ter wrote:To indulge the not so intelligent zealots who dream of transforming the Jewish Homeland into Islamic shit hole #58, where should the 78% Jews go who were born in Israel ?


I am a believer in a fully democratic single state solution called "Palestine and Israel" so I'm excluded from answering your question.

Also most find the 1967 borders agreeable, so they'd just have to move from Jerusalem to Tel Aviv I guess. And the settlers can move there too.
#15087811
Palestine and "Israel" is already one state, albeit with apartheid and occupation. It has always been so. I mean, since the 1940s when Palestine was stolen by racist thieves it has always been so.

Cool story still about it being a "Jewish Homeland" when the majority in the land of Palestine aren't Jewish. :lol:
#15087821
colliric wrote:

Also most find the 1967 borders agreeable, so they'd just have to move from Jerusalem to Tel Aviv I guess. And the settlers can move there too.


its impossible to remove 500k people from their homes
I mean theoretically its possible but no Israeli leader will dare to do that as that will cause a civil war
#15087822
skinster wrote:Palestine and "Israel" is already one state, albeit with apartheid and occupation. It has always been so. I mean, since the 1940s when Palestine was stolen by racist thieves it has always been so.



tell me about "Palestine" in 1848 who ruled the land and what kind of laws was present there?
#15087830
colliric wrote:Netanyahu famously disagrees with you. Meets Christian leaders all the time, especially the Pope, and is the PM responsible for building the Jesus Trail and being more active in promoting Christian tourism and even Christian immigration to Israel. He has also been active in surpressing bigoted anti-christian groups like Ben-Zion Gopstein's Lehava.


Look, - are familiar with basic marketing? You know, - the effort to secure your brand...This IS what Netanyahu is doing. Israeli Government has an entire department dedicated to fostering, promoting and maintaining a relationship with Christian organizations worldwide, with specific emphasis on US Evangelical communities. There is a great deal of understanding in Israel as to how important Israel is, or should be, to Christian World.

None of those efforts, however, have anything to do with internal politics of Israel or its foreign affairs. Christian relations are seen as a helping hand in order to build a better state and place Israel in a community of nations on Israeli terms.

There is absolutely nothing that Israel does in order to serve Christian interests other than tourism and maintenance of Christian sites.
#15087831
colliric wrote:I am a believer in a fully democratic single state solution called "Palestine and Israel" so I'm excluded from answering your question.

Also most find the 1967 borders agreeable, so they'd just have to move from Jerusalem to Tel Aviv I guess. And the settlers can move there too.


Well, - I am going to relegate your opinion to being somewhat naive. Yes, in theory, what you are saying is desirable. But then again, Isaiah did say 2500 (or so) years ago, that messiah will come and The “lion and the lamb shall lay down together”, and the people will get rid of their weapons. I can add to Isaiah words the following, - and the Jew and the Muslim in the Middle East will sit in a circle singing kumbaya...

Today, just like in Isaiah times, your assertions or desires are simply a wishful thinking, that, if implemented, will lead to a catastrophe, - mostly likely for the Muslim Arabs.

So, - I hope you are saying this without an ulterior motive. The motive which is often behind those statements such as yours, are the eventual destruction of Israel by 'other' means.

Who know, - maybe in 500 years we will be in a position to implement a one-state solution. Perhaps by then, the Muslims will no longer see the Jews as adversaries, fulfilling the prophetic words of Isaiah.

Today, a different solution is needed. This solution is well on its way and cannot be stopped. It will finally start materialising this summer.

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