[Ter]

The future for Israel does not look bright.

If that laughable thought makes you sleep better at night, please continue to have those dreams.

In the real world: It is your "resistance" movements that are seen as illegal terrorists.

Hezbollah: Germany bans and raids Islamist group
Germany has banned all activity by the Islamist Hezbollah movement and police have carried out raids on mosques and centres linked to the group.

Until now the political wing of the Shia Lebanese group, backed by Iran, was able to operate on German soil while its military arm was banned.

Several European countries have already banned Hezbollah, which has some 1,000 activists in Germany.

Israel praised the German move and called on the EU to follow suit.

Hezbollah - which means Party of God - wields considerable power in Lebanon and is seen as a key supporter of its current government. It has been blamed for numerous attacks against Israel, the US and Jewish figures and institutions.
How broad is ban on Hezbollah in Europe?

The EU has Hezbollah's military wing on its list of terror organisations but not its political wing. Earlier this year the US ambassador to Berlin, Richard Grenell, accused the EU of maintaining an "artificial distinction" between the two parts.

The UK dropped the distinction in 2019, saying it could no longer distinguish between the two. The Netherlands, Japan, the US and Canada are among other countries that ban both wings.

However, French President Emmanuel Macron made clear last year that he would continue to have contact with Hezbollah's political wing.

It was up to the Lebanese people to decide which political force should represent them, not external powers such as France, he argued.

Why did Germany move?

German Interior Minister Horst Seehofer made the decision after assessing that the Shia group was behind "a multitude of attacks resulting in hundreds of deaths and injuries worldwide". Parliament in Berlin had already urged the government to act.



The group is thought to have 1,050 supporters in Germany, and four associations are seen by the interior ministry as sub-groups of Hezbollah itself.

Police searched four mosques and associations seen as part of the organisation early on Thursday: Berlin's al-Irschad mosque, two centres in Bremen and Münster, and a Lebanese community group in Dortmund.

The ban will enable authorities to put a stop to anti-Israel marches and the use of anti-Semitic slogans, observers say. Hezbollah flags and anti-Israel banners often appear at the annual al-Quds march in Berlin.

"Even in times of crisis the rule of law is upheld," said Mr Seehofer.

Israeli Foreign Minister Israel Katz said it was a "valuable and significant step... against terrorism".

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52484247

[skinster]

If that laughable thought makes you sleep better at night, please continue to have those dreams.

Pride comes before a fall.

In the real world: It is your "resistance" movements that are seen as illegal terrorists.

Not sure why you have resistance in quotations but that is exactly what Hezbollah is. It resists and defends, just like it did when it was created after Israeli terrorist invaders thought they could ruin Lebanon like they ruined Palestine. That didn't go well for Israeli terrorists though; getting their asses handed to them by a guerrilla org.

[Patrickov]

I must say the Arabs themselves are at least partially responsible for the perils of the Palestinians (and by extension, themselves). Even CCP apologists condemn Arabs for their impotence and their tendency of infighting.

An old Chinese saying: People must have belittled themselves before others belittle them.

[starman2003]

Welcome to being superpower 101:

I don't want to be a superpower because it is costly -> I stop being a superpower -> Oh,no my enemies are taking over and bullying me -> I have to be a super power -> Go back to step 1

I'm well aware superpower status can be very costly. But backing Israel is not really conducive to superpower status. In the long run the US can't be a world leader if it keeps backing a state which, in addition to being small and unimportant, is a regional and international pariah.

[JohnRawls]

I'm well aware superpower status can be very costly. But backing Israel is not really conducive to superpower status. In the long run the US can't be a world leader if it keeps backing a state which, in addition to being small and unimportant, is a regional and international pariah.

Israel is the only trustworthy DEMOCRATIC state in the middle east. Israel is much closer to Europe and US compared to any other country in the region precisely because at their core they are Democratic and liberal capitalist. The rest around are religious states or other kinds of dictatorships with world views that are incompatible with our European and US views.

In that regard, there is not much of a choice. If Egypt or SA or Turkey or anybody else in the region was a better choice than Israel than we would have supported them instead.

[skinster]

Israel is the only trustworthy DEMOCRATIC state in the middle east.

How delusional are you. Israel is not trustworthy at all. Someone already brought up the USS liberty event, but more recently, when Nethanyahu defied Obama's plans re: the Iran deal by trying to cancel it / turn congress against him, talk about trustworthy!

Also, Israel isn't democratic at all. Stop using words incorrectly. It's an ethnosupremacist state where people live under different rules based on whether they're Jewish or not, despite Israel controlling all of the land. Israel is an apartheid state. There's nothing democratic about apartheid.

[JohnRawls]

How delusional are you. Israel is not trustworthy at all. Someone already brought up the USS liberty event, but more recently, when Nethanyahu defied Obama's plans re: the Iran deal by trying to cancel it / turn congress against him, talk about trustworthy!

Also, Israel isn't democratic at all. Stop using words incorrectly. It's an ethnosupremacist state where people live under different rules based on whether they're Jewish or not, despite Israel controlling all of the land. Israel is an apartheid state. There's nothing democratic about apartheid.

Thats your opinion. Iran deal is an existential issue for Israel so obviously they are going to have a stance on it even if they have to go against the US. US Liberty was quite a long time ago. What exactly did Israel do against Europe or US? Last time i checked, Israel started wars for France and UK for example. Israel also provided assistance to the US.

As for the Palestinian issue, you know my stance on it. We have discussed this ad nuseum already. It is a bad situation but I do not see a way out of it. Palestinians and Israelis won't budge that is just unrealistic. Because of this, there won't be any trust at all so the solution is almost unlikely. Without security guarantees, Israel will never compromise. It needs to be ABSOLUTELY sure that their concessions won't be met with further escalation. Without passing that barrier somehow, nothing will change.

[skinster]

Thats your opinion.

Which bit do you think is my opinion?

Iran deal is an existential issue for Israel so obviously they are going to have a stance on it even if they have to go against the US.

Whatever you think of the Iran deal, Israel demonstrated again to the U.S. that it'll go behind its back even if it includes killing people (e.g. USS Liberty). We were talking about how Israel isn't a trustworthy ally to the U.S.

US Liberty was quite a long time ago.

If I bombed your parents to death about 30 years ago, I suppose you'd be as forgiving since it was "quite a long time ago". Terrorism doesn't matter if it happened 30 or so years ago killing 34 American navy people. :lol:

What exactly did Israel do against Europe or US?

I guess you missed the British election in 2019 and the 4 years preceding it, and how Israel was very much meddling in British politics attacking a man via its lobby and media, whose only crime was calling Palestinians humans who deserved rights too.

As for the Palestinian issue, you know my stance on it. We have discussed this ad nuseum already.

Actually we haven't discussed it much at all because you know so little but the mainstream media version of events and haven't studied the (short) history of what took place where everything has been documented on the issue and there is an objective reality, that you deny because you're too lazy to read anything beyond corporate media. And because you're a racist. Because Israel is an apartheid state and supporting Zionism is racist simply because it's a racist ideology. Read more. :)

[Godstud]

Absolutely. Yes.

More recently, in fiscal year 2019, the US provided $3.8 billion in foreign military aid to Israel. Israel also benefits from about $8 billion of loan guarantees.

What do you think this money is used for?

[Politics_Observer]

My position is that Israel is an ally of the U.S. and we need to stand firmly behind our allies such as Israel. Just like we need to stand behind Britain and Australia who are also very valuable allies. A lot of the problems that Israel faces stem from Iran and it's proxies like Hamas and Hezbollah.

[skinster]

My position is that Israel is an ally of the U.S. and we need to stand firmly behind our allies such as Israel.

What a stupid position.

A lot of the problems that Israel faces stem from Iran and it's proxies like Hamas and Hezbollah.

Hamas in Palestine and Hezbollah in Lebanon are guerrilla organisations that came into being as a response to Israeli terrorism. Recent history quite clearly is not your frand.

[Rich]

The key to understanding the intense attachment of the American Right to Israel is the terrible psychological defeat of Vietnam. American nationalist machismo since Vietnam has tended to be expressed as support for proxies. Intense support for the Mujahedin was also a talismanic issue for the American right. However that love affair all went horribly wrong, first in Somalia and the Al Qaeda attacks. Of course their was a brief revival of American militarism after 9/11, but that soon proved far from satisfying This has left support for Israel as the only real outlet for right wing nationalist aggression.

[annatar1914]

The key to understanding the intense attachment of the American Right to Israel is the terrible psychological defeat of Vietnam. American nationalist machismo since Vietnam has tended to be expressed as support for proxies. Intense support for the Mujahedin was also a talismanic issue for the American right. However that love affair all went horribly wrong, first in Somalia and the Al Qaeda attacks. Of course their was a brief revival of American militarism after 9/11, but that soon proved far from satisfying This has left support for Israel as the only real outlet for right wing nationalist aggression.

The real intense ''attachment'' to Israel from their American supporters mainly comes from the end-times theories of the Evangelical movement, ask @Hindsite about that.

However, many Americans who are by no means Evangelical simply understand that having a Jewish Nation-State is right for the Jews.

[Hindsite]

The real intense ''attachment'' to Israel from their American supporters mainly comes from the end-times theories of the Evangelical movement, ask @Hindsite about that.

However, many Americans who are by no means Evangelical simply understand that having a Jewish Nation-State is right for the Jews.

I understand it is right for the Jews too.

[starman2003]

Israel is the only trustworthy DEMOCRATIC state in the middle east.

Israel has been called a master race democracy but I won't get into that here...

Israel is much closer to Europe and US compared to any other country in the region precisely because at their core they are Democratic and liberal capitalist. The rest around are religious states or other kinds of dictatorships with world views that are incompatible with our European and US views.

Big Deal!! What really matters are practical considerations not values. Basing policy on values at the expense of real interests is a dangerous luxury. That's why no other country, not even close democratic allies, backs Israel like the US does.

Furthermore, in view of the marvelous record of the democracies, especially our own, in solving serious problems like deficits and greenhouse emissions, it makes no sense to try to propagate an ineffective system by backing its adherents.

In that regard, there is not much of a choice. If Egypt or SA or Turkey or anybody else in the region was a better choice than Israel than we would have supported them instead.

From the point of view of interests, several Mideast states would be a much better choice. Backing any one of those states wouldn't alienate so many others, or the bulk of the region's population. Unfortunately the US can't now act in its own best interest because, in addition to the foolish back-democracy mindset, the powerful zionist lobby has a near-stranglehold on our Mideast policy.

[Hindsite]

From the point of view of interests, several Mideast states would be a much better choice. Backing any one of those states wouldn't alienate so many others, or the bulk of the region's population. Unfortunately the US can't now act in its own best interest because, in addition to the foolish back-democracy mindset, the powerful zionist lobby has a near-stranglehold on our Mideast policy.

America does back Saudi Arabia to some degree because of its opposition to Iran and some of Iran's terrorist proxies. However, Israel's interests are more in line with America's interest because it is against all Islamic terrorism and is also the holy land of Christians and the only democracy in the Middle East.

[starman2003]

America does back Saudi Arabia to some degree because of its opposition to Iran and some of Iran's terrorist proxies.

The ironic thing is, the US has strongly opposed Iran even though it has backed the same (shiite) side in Iraq and fought the same (ISIS) enemy. It has also supported the SAA in its struggle with al-qaida offshoots in Syria. Opposition to Iran is not based on our interests but stems from zionist power here. Although actually an asset Iran opposes Israel which guarantees US enmity...

However, Israel's interests are more in line with America's interest because it is against all Islamic terrorism

Lol, has it actually fought ISIS and HTS like Iran and its allies have? As for "terrorism," Israel was founded by terrorists like Begin and virtually wrote the book on state terrorism. It has killed far more civilians than any other regional player.

and is also the holy land of Christians and the only democracy in the Middle East.

Lol, again So What!! Many people just can't seem to grasp the difference between values and interests. The US may have to defend KSA (even if its values are different) because its oil wealth makes it in our interest to do so. In sharp contrast, Israel may have similar values but it's of no real geopolitical or economic importance.

[JohnRawls]

Israel has been called a master race democracy but I won't get into that here...




Big Deal!! What really matters are practical considerations not values. Basing policy on values at the expense of real interests is a dangerous luxury. That's why no other country, not even close democratic allies, backs Israel like the US does.

Furthermore, in view of the marvelous record of the democracies, especially our own, in solving serious problems like deficits and greenhouse emissions, it makes no sense to try to propagate an ineffective system by backing its adherents.




From the point of view of interests, several Mideast states would be a much better choice. Backing any one of those states wouldn't alienate so many others, or the bulk of the region's population. Unfortunately the US can't now act in its own best interest because, in addition to the foolish back-democracy mindset, the powerful zionist lobby has a near-stranglehold on our Mideast policy.

If you want to call Israel an ethnonationalist democracy then there is some truth to those words. But not only jews are part of the system, there are arabs. The reason why you are calling Israel ethnonationalist is because they are not allowing the Palestinians in to the government. That is a whole different matter all together though. Supposdely there should be two states so Israel can deny Palestinians a vote in Israels election because they have a state of their own.

As for values not mattering, i don't agree. Allies of convinience are allies for some time and then they are gone. There are plenty of examples: Saddam, Shah in Iran, Taliban in Afghanistan and many many others. On the other hands the countries that are in line with your values are usually very trustworthy long term allies even if something happens on the way. France, UK, Germany, Canada etc. Israel also falls in to this category.

[Hindsite]

The ironic thing is, the US has strongly opposed Iran even though it has backed the same (shiite) side in Iraq and fought the same (ISIS) enemy. It has also supported the SAA in its struggle with al-qaida offshoots in Syria. Opposition to Iran is not based on our interests but stems from zionist power here. Although actually an asset Iran opposes Israel which guarantees US enmity...

Most Americans did not know much about the divisions in Islam or of the extreme dangers of Islam to the USA until after the 9/11 attacks in America. And the Bush administration thought Iraq, which might still have weapons of mass destruction, where more of a danger to us than al Qaeda in Afghanistan or any particular division of Islam. President George W. Bush was more familiar with Saddam Hussein because of his father's experience with Saddam in the first Gulf war after having to drive him out out of Kuwait. That is why Bush put more effort in getting rid of the evil dictator Saddam Hussein and believed that people of Iraq would be grateful and would be glad to have the USA help them establish a democratic government and they would live happily ever after.

When Obama became President, he had a mostly favorable view of Islam because of being taught the religion in school as a child growing up in Indonesia and knowing his father was Muslim, I suppose. So that was eight years of a trend for poorer relations with Israel until Trump became President and began reversing that trend. President Trump recognized the true dangers of Islam and especially ISIS and decided to do something about reducing their spread by eliminating their caliphate.

Lol, has it actually fought ISIS and HTS like Iran and its allies have? As for "terrorism," Israel was founded by terrorists like Begin and virtually wrote the book on state terrorism. It has killed far more civilians than any other regional player.

Israel has had to fight, in limited self defense, every Islamic power that has come against it in order to survive as a nation. Israel does not go out looking for a fight.

, again So What!! Many people just can't seem to grasp the difference between values and interests. The US may have to defend KSA (even if its values are different) because its oil wealth makes it in our interest to do so. In sharp contrast, Israel may have similar values but it's of no real geopolitical or economic importance.

There are many Christians in America and they want to visit the Christian holy sites in peace. I agree that the USA may need to support those like Saudi Arabia because the interests may be more important at the time than values or visa versa.

[starman2003]

As for values not mattering, i don't agree. Allies of convinience are allies for some time and then they are gone. There are plenty of examples: Saddam, Shah in Iran, Taliban in Afghanistan and many many others. On the other hands the countries that are in line with your values are usually very trustworthy long term allies even if something happens on the way. France, UK, Germany, Canada etc. Israel also falls in to this category.

Two points: First, as I said, in light of the failings of democracy, it's absurd to try to maintain or propagate that system by backing its foreign adherents. Second, Israel his not a true ally. An alliance is mutually beneficial. US support for Israel has cost us hundreds of billions while yielding us nothing in return except a heap of trouble. Israel is no ally, just a bloodsucker attached to us by the zionist lobby.