- 11 Oct 2023 03:21
#15290413
I would love to share my studies with you about African civvies and Mesoamerican civvies. There is a lot that is known and some that is still being investigated. But your ideas about those old societies is not really accurate Rich.
Again, the main point of my pointing out to you your assumptions about what the Mexican American community thinks or believes as a whole in the Southwestern USA was not accurate. Mainly because you are not interested in knowing that history Rich.
Again, a long discussion on human rights.
Do you think your ancestors who lived in that area of the UK that you occupy right now, if some invading force came in and took it over with violence and you had to abandon that land or town to survive and are stuck in some strange place you never thought about living in before but it was the only place willing to take English Protestant refugees....you would reconsider your views. But since you do not see that as a possibility for your situation you do not really care about living in some other ethnic group's shoes.
Empathy is a very important and humane human quality. Something that is transcendent and powerful in the extreme for understanding what is being human is all about.
Now, you are right. Humans are very complex creatures, and they are not really all nice or all evil. There is tremendous variation in all of it.
The problem you have in my point of view, is that you really believe the Europeans are somehow better? Because they knew how to read and write and have better technology with the military? Lol.
If you look at even European history closely the English language was considered the language of the inferiors. The low. The commoners. Not fit for the upper classes to speak, until the English Navy started being successful. Most people in England for a long time were illiterate. Lived in squalor and terrible conditions if you can believe the accounts of Charles Dickens and many social reformers of 19th century England that spoke of workhouses and mass squalor and terrible conditions of the chimney sweeps and all the rest like shopgirls and so on who had to sleep at the shop and had long days and never a day off. Dying often without pay or food sometimes.
Is that a superior society to you Rich?
I think again, human rights in a universal way have to be the norm and the standard for all international political relationships. Not about who wants what resource and to hell with human rights of the ones who are in the way of that ambition.
Got to start somewhere. And that is a good place to start.
That humans can be cruel, nasty, and violent, greedy and unjust? I do not think that is in any controversial state to say that yes, humans of all races, creeds and nationalities can definitely exhibit such behavior.
The flaw in your thinking lies in thinking that somehow the justifies not changing or just moving forward with exploiting and destroying in a predatory manner other societies and that might is right and nothing will change.
That is not true. Everything changes. Everything has to be dealt with in time and space in human societies. We do not only evolve as a group and as a species but we also do so as a society that is experiencing conditions that teach us every day.
it is about adapting, learning and formulating something beyond what failed in the past and not to repeat the same mistakes and to move forward with some real advancement. Not a bunch of fearmongering and paranoid claims of since they are primitive in my head we can fuck them over. No. That mentality will not work at all Rich.
Rich wrote:Picking on 1492 is anti European racism. Most Amerindians were not living in peace prior to 1492. And even those that were, so what? Most were probably committing heinous crimes by the standards of our modern day laws. All over the world people were fighting each other and the powerful were exploiting the less powerful.
Why do you care so much if Europeans took land from Amerindians? The Amerindians were losers, so what. They would have done the same or worse to us if they got the chance. The Comanche, The Zulu and the Maori never conquered any of Europe. Do you think that was due to some superior moral virtue? No it was because of their inferior technology.
We can read about over 2000 years of Europeans attacking, conquering, enslaving, raping, lying, cheating and exploiting people, sometimes other Europeans, sometimes non Europeans. We can't read about this with Black Africans or Amerindians, not because they were one jot better morally, but simply because very limited or no writings were preserved.
I would love to share my studies with you about African civvies and Mesoamerican civvies. There is a lot that is known and some that is still being investigated. But your ideas about those old societies is not really accurate Rich.
Again, the main point of my pointing out to you your assumptions about what the Mexican American community thinks or believes as a whole in the Southwestern USA was not accurate. Mainly because you are not interested in knowing that history Rich.
Again, a long discussion on human rights.
Do you think your ancestors who lived in that area of the UK that you occupy right now, if some invading force came in and took it over with violence and you had to abandon that land or town to survive and are stuck in some strange place you never thought about living in before but it was the only place willing to take English Protestant refugees....you would reconsider your views. But since you do not see that as a possibility for your situation you do not really care about living in some other ethnic group's shoes.
Empathy is a very important and humane human quality. Something that is transcendent and powerful in the extreme for understanding what is being human is all about.
Now, you are right. Humans are very complex creatures, and they are not really all nice or all evil. There is tremendous variation in all of it.
The problem you have in my point of view, is that you really believe the Europeans are somehow better? Because they knew how to read and write and have better technology with the military? Lol.
If you look at even European history closely the English language was considered the language of the inferiors. The low. The commoners. Not fit for the upper classes to speak, until the English Navy started being successful. Most people in England for a long time were illiterate. Lived in squalor and terrible conditions if you can believe the accounts of Charles Dickens and many social reformers of 19th century England that spoke of workhouses and mass squalor and terrible conditions of the chimney sweeps and all the rest like shopgirls and so on who had to sleep at the shop and had long days and never a day off. Dying often without pay or food sometimes.
Is that a superior society to you Rich?
I think again, human rights in a universal way have to be the norm and the standard for all international political relationships. Not about who wants what resource and to hell with human rights of the ones who are in the way of that ambition.
Got to start somewhere. And that is a good place to start.
That humans can be cruel, nasty, and violent, greedy and unjust? I do not think that is in any controversial state to say that yes, humans of all races, creeds and nationalities can definitely exhibit such behavior.
The flaw in your thinking lies in thinking that somehow the justifies not changing or just moving forward with exploiting and destroying in a predatory manner other societies and that might is right and nothing will change.
That is not true. Everything changes. Everything has to be dealt with in time and space in human societies. We do not only evolve as a group and as a species but we also do so as a society that is experiencing conditions that teach us every day.
it is about adapting, learning and formulating something beyond what failed in the past and not to repeat the same mistakes and to move forward with some real advancement. Not a bunch of fearmongering and paranoid claims of since they are primitive in my head we can fuck them over. No. That mentality will not work at all Rich.
La historia de mi amor
se pudiera encontrar
en cada corazón,
en cada soledad.
Silvio Rodriguez
se pudiera encontrar
en cada corazón,
en cada soledad.
Silvio Rodriguez