Israel-Palestinian War 2023 - Page 4 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15290697
@Sandzak

I can't see how this will spiral into WW3. Time is working against Hamas. Time is on the side of the Israelis. Given the current leverage that Israel is using by laying siege to Gaza and the fact that so many Israeli innocent civilians were killed, I can't see why they would ever agree to releasing any prisoners. Besides, It's a very bad idea and only incentivizes this type of Hamas terrorist attack in the future.
#15290704
The US Left Must Unwaveringly Stand for Palestinian Freedom
The US “socialist” left currently playing the bothsides-ism game with Israeli genocide of Palestinians in the name of some bullshit notion of ‘nuance,’ must remember the words of Howard Zinn: “You can’t be neutral on a moving train.”

Nothing is accomplished with an abstract support of Palestine when it’s convenient. It is when the empire’s ideological apparatuses are pumping out atrocity propaganda to dehumanize Palestinian anti-colonial resistance that support for Palestinian freedom struggles count.

The recent events have shown who is willing to stand for Palestine in the concrete, when the people grab arms to throw off their occupying force. “Decolonization,” as the great Frantz Fanon noted, “is always a violent phenomenon.”

If your purity fetish requests a bloodless anti-colonial revolution, you’ll be doomed to always condemning freedom movements of colonized peoples. You’ll be chained to playing the role of the defenders of empire from the ‘left’. Your ‘siding’ with the oppressed will always be conditioned by their being oppressed; you’ll be with them only insofar as they’re the victim, but never when they fight back and become an emancipatory force.

The Western left’s treatment of violence, like everything else, is abstract. It is unable to distinguish between particular forms of violence, between the ever-present violence of the oppressor, and the emancipatory violence of the oppressed. As Maximillien Robespierre noted, to equate the violence of the people’s struggle for freedom to the violence of their exploitative and oppressive rulers is as folly and empty as saying that “the sword that gleams in the hands of the heroes of liberty resembles that with which the henchmen of tyranny are armed.”

The key issue here is violence by whom, against whom, and towards what ends. The Palestinian uprising is a legitimate, self-defensive, violence of a people against an apartheid occupational state. It is the violence of the colonized, against the colonizers, for freedom. It is a violence that has been taken up as the last resort in a long struggle against Zionist colonialism. It is the only route the colonizers have left for Palestinians to fight for their freedom. Violence, as Fidel Castro noted, is the route the oppressors force on the people, it is taken up when all other means of struggle have been exhausted. We must remember the words of Paulo Frieri, “Never in history has violence been initiated by the oppressed.”

But their struggle for freedom is not limited to Palestinians. A defeat of Israel, the US empire’s outpost in the so-called Middle East - the “baby child of imperialism in the Middle East” as Kwame Ture said - would be a victory for all of humanity.

A defeat of empire in any corner of the earth, as Che Guevara noted, must be celebrated cheerfully by every communist, every person driven by a deep love of humanity. The imperialists hate humanity; their capitalist system undermines, as Marx had noted, the “original sources of all wealth – the soil and the worker.” The Palestinian struggle against the racist Israeli colonial US-outpost is a struggle for humanity - for the exploited and oppressed across the earth. It is a struggle for life, a struggle against the Israeli imperialist death machine.

Paradoxically, a Palestinian victory would be the conditions for the possibility of current Israeli settlers experiencing real freedom. As the Peruvian indigenous politician Dionisio Yupanqui says in his 1810 speech to the Cortes de Cádiz, “a people that oppresses another cannot be free.” The Israeli settlers cannot be free, cannot experience genuine human autonomy, insofar as their existence necessitates the oppression and extermination of Palestinian people. In their oppression of the Palestinian they stifle their capacity to live fully human lives. As Plato had long ago noted, injustice against an other corrupts the soul; the worst evil we can be inflicted with is that which we do to ourselves when we harm others. A society predicated on such disdain and obliteration of its “other” destroys itself from within. Like Oscar Wilde’s Dorian Gray, Israel’s sins against the Palestinians are making a monstrosity out of the soul of its people.

Palestinian freedom must be acquired, in the words of Malcolm X, “by any means necessary.” A victorious Palestinian struggle is in the interests of all of humanity - of all working and oppressed peoples of the world.

US socialists must stand, as some comrades have been doing, with the Palestinian struggle for freedom. We must push back against Zionist genocidal efforts, and those echoed by our morally hollow capitalist politicians.

It is difficult to imagine that Israeli intelligence was truly caught by surprise. It is plausible to suspect that they have allowing events to play out so that they may intensify their genocidal war against Palestine while using atrocity propaganda to legitimize their efforts.

This does not change, however, the fact that Palestinians are up in arms fighting for their freedom. Neither does it change the fact that, like all hubris-filled Goliaths, this apartheid-colonial state – as we currently know it – may fall.

Humanity sees itself in the struggle of the Palestinians.

Because this great humanity has said: Enough! and has started walking. And their march of giants will no longer stop until they achieve true independence, for which they have already died more than once in vain. Now, in any case, those who will die, will die like those of Cuba, those of Playa Girón, will die for their only, true, inalienable independence! – Che Guevara
https://www.midwesternmarx.com/articles ... -l-garrido



Israeli propaganda minister has quit. One gone, a shitload more to go..


Neo wrote:History is no excuse for these terrorist actions.


It's not just within the last 100 years when Palestinians had their country stolen from them, were ethnically-cleansed in the hundreds of thousands outside of their land and those remaining forced refugee or prisoner status where they lack rights, but the latter is their PRESENT. They've been living in a prison camp for the last 16 years that Israel bombs every few years to test weapons on and then sell elsewhere, what did you expect would happen? That Israel can still live in relative peace while millions of people are under its boot? Of course not. You wouldn't sit by while your home and land was stolen and your lives are destroyed with no end in sight.

When Hamas releases Israeli citizens being held hostage then Israel will in turn release Gazans by allowing food, water, electricity, and fuel into Gaza.


The people of Gaza have had 2-4 hours of electricity per day before this weekend. They are starved to the point where Israelis tested how much the minimal calories a person could survive on and that amount of food is distributed to the prison camp. Their water is limited and so is their fuel. Half the camp is unemployed because there are no jobs and the people are stuck in there with the only place to go being the sea, where if they venture out beyond 20 miles, they will be shot.

You are obviously not aware of this background because they don't tell you on your TVs.

Hamas should also prepare to face real and genuine justice at the hands of the Israeli military in return for killing innocent Israeli civilians.


Israel has killed 260 Palestinians before this weekend, has held thousands as hostages in their prisons without any charges and again, keeps 2.3 million imprisoned in Gaza concentration camp, a million of which are children and 60% are women.
#15290705
OK so the plan is to desiccate and starve the Gazan civilian population to death in order to force Hamas to just hand over the hostages in exchange for nothing.

So my first thought would be, are you sure this concords with international law? The international law that liberals claim to care so desperately about. My second thought is, if Russia was starving and desiccating Ukrainian civilian populations to death in order to get the Ukrainian armed forces to capitulate wouldn't you Liberals be whining about it, at least a little bit?

OK my presumption is that Hamas will prioritse its own fighters when it comes to limited food and water. They will only die after the civilian population has desiccated and starved to death. So my third question would be as the water and food runs out do you expect Hamas to priorioritise the hostages when it comes to food and water? I don't want to be unnecessarily pessimistic but this sort of situation is one my family has some experience of.

My father was a prisoner of war in Nazi Germany, luckily he was British so he got a lot better treatment than Jews or Russians. But he was a kind of a hostage marched with tens of thousands of other British POWs from Poland into the West to be kept as a possible bargaining chip. The western allies sought to destroy everything in Germany, to bring the German Urban population to the point of starvation, and to a point of the complete breakdown of civilsation that modern industrial populations rely on for survival, where the army could no longer fight. I'm not sure of the exact figures, but I believe my father was one of the lucky 20000 that survived out of 80000. As well as the lack of food, they had to sleep outside, throughout the winter, the allies intent on destroying any building standing. He had been left for dead, his body was retrieved from a pile of corpses. He weighed 6 and half stone.

Anyway I'm just telling you this because all though things may work out fine, I could potentially see problems with this hostage rescue strategy.
#15290706
@skinster

Ohh this isn't my first rodeo. I am familiar with this business. If Hamas starts executing hostages, then if I were Israel they should in return start executing Hamas prisoners in their custody. If Hamas doesn't release the hostages unconditionally without strings attached, then everybody in Gaza literally be starved to death.

This is a war and anybody who has been to war, understands the REAL rules to the game and is not niave to them. Moreover, in addition to the unconditional release of Israeli hostages, in revenge for Hamas killing innocent Israel's citizens, those Hamas operatives involved in the attack and planning of the attack will need to be killed to deter Hamas from taking hostages again in the future to ensure the safety and security of Israeli citizens. This is the way the game is REALLY played.

@Rich

Rich, when the war starts the law falls silent. This is how you handle terrorists who kill innocent civilians. This is the only language they understand. Israel needs to stop bullshitting around and do what they must to protect their citizens. You can't pussyfoot around with bloodthirsty and barbaric terrorists.
#15290715
@skinster

Your article quotes Robespierre, a fitting image for the hard-left unwavering fanatics. The revolution must be protected at all costs, no matter how many deaths, from enemies from without and within...

The Palestinians hate the Israelis to the point of dehumanization. The Israelis hate the Palestinians to the point of dehumanization. I wish I had an answer but I don't see one. Israel will stop struggling with it's quasi-fascist identity and now embrace it fully. Perhaps that will lead to its eventual downfall, but for now the entire region has become a tinderbox, everyone reacting to the dominoes falling.

I'm so sick and tired of our species. I embraced the cynicism inside of me in order to shield myself from the horrors of our own creation.

Our life dreams the Utopia. Our death achives the Ideal.

- Victor Hugo
#15290716
MadMonk wrote:The revolution must be protected at all costs, no matter how many deaths, from enemies from without and within...


Weird that you support the denial of basic human rights for a people who've lacked them for decades after their country was stolen from then. And you want to wax moralistic...funny.


The Palestinians hate the Israelis to the point of dehumanization.


Actually they just want freedom from their oppressors. Find me a video of Palestinians that is equivalent to this:


but for now the entire region has become a tinderbox, everyone reacting to the dominoes falling.


It was bound to happen since Israel continued its apartheid, occupation and imprisonment of the Palestinian people for decades. Palestinians and everyone else knew that once the empire declines, it's game over for Israel, which is propped up by it. Even now, the Israelis can choose the option of offering Palestinians their rights, but instead they've opted for killing them in large numbers and bombing neighbouring countries, it's like the rulers are asking for it. There were more bombs in Lebanon today and Israel bombed Aleppo and Damascus airport in Syria.
#15290739
Yuval Noah Harari-The Guardian wrote:Israelis and Palestinians are facing their moment of greatest danger since 1948


There is still a slim chance of peace if wiser counsels prevail and other major powers intervene in a coalition of the willing

Israel has just experienced the worst day in its history. More Israeli civilians have been slaughtered in a single day than all the civilians and soldiers Israel lost in the 1956 Sinai war, the 1967 six-day war and the 2006 second Lebanon war combined. The stories and images coming out of the area occupied by Hamas are horrific. Many of my own friends and family members have suffered unspeakable atrocities. This means the Palestinians, too, are now facing immense danger. The most powerful country in the Middle East is livid with pain, fear and anger. I do not have either the knowledge or moral authority to speak about how things look from the Palestinian perspective. But in the moment of Israel’s greatest pain, I would like to issue a warning about how things look from the Israeli side of the fence.


Politics often works like a scientific experiment, conducted on millions of people with few ethical limitations. You try something – whether increasing the welfare budget, electing a populist president or making a peace offer – witness the results, and decide whether to proceed further down that particular path; or you reverse course and try something else. This is how the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has unfolded for decades: by trial and error.

During the 1990s Oslo peace process, Israel gave peace a chance. I know that from the viewpoint of Palestinians and some outside observers, Israeli peace offers were insufficient and arrogant, but it was still the most generous offer Israel has ever made. During that peace process, Israel handed partial control of the Gaza Strip to the Palestinian Authority. The outcome for Israelis was the worst terror campaign they had experienced until then. Israelis are still haunted by memories of daily life in the early 2000s, with buses and restaurants bombed every day. That terror campaign killed not only hundreds of Israeli civilians, but also the peace process and the Israeli left. Maybe Israel’s peace offer wasn’t generous enough. But was terrorism the only possible response?

After the failure of the peace process, Israel’s next experiment in Gaza was disengagement. In the mid-2000s, Israel unilaterally retreated from the entire Gaza Strip, dismantled all settlements there and returned to the internationally recognised pre-1967 border. True, it continued to impose a partial blockade on the Gaza Strip and to occupy the West Bank. But the withdrawal from Gaza was still a very significant Israeli step, and Israelis waited anxiously to see what the result of that experiment would be. The remnants of the Israeli left hoped that the Palestinians would make an honest attempt to turn Gaza into a prosperous and peaceful city state, a Middle Eastern Singapore, showing to the world and to the Israeli right what the Palestinians could do when given the opportunity to govern themselves.


Sure, it is difficult to build a Singapore under a partial blockade. But an honest attempt could still have been made, in which case there would have been greater pressure on the Israeli government from both foreign powers and the Israeli public to remove the blockade from Gaza and to reach an honourable deal about the West Bank as well. Instead, Hamas took over the Gaza Strip and turned it into a terrorist base from which repeated attacks were launched on Israeli civilians. Another experiment ended in failure.

This completely discredited the remnants of the Israeli left, and brought to power Benjamin Netanyahu and his hawkish governments. Netanyahu pioneered another experiment. Since peaceful coexistence had failed, he adopted a policy of violent coexistence. Israel and Hamas traded blows on a weekly basis and almost every year there was a major military operation, but for a decade and a half, Israeli civilians could go on living within a few hundred metres from Hamas bases on the other side of the fence. Even Israel’s messianic zealots showed little zeal to reconquer the Gaza Strip, and even rightwingers hoped that the responsibilities involved in ruling more than 2 million people would gradually moderate Hamas.

Indeed, many on the Israeli right saw Hamas as a better partner than the Palestinian Authority. This was because Israeli hawks wanted to go on controlling the West Bank, and feared a peace deal. Hamas seemed to offer the Israeli right the best of all worlds: relieving Israel of the need to govern the Gaza Strip, without making any peace offers that might dislocate Israeli control of the West Bank. The day of horror Israel has just experienced signals the end of the Netanyahu experiment in violent coexistence.

So what comes next? No one knows for sure, but some voices in Israel are veering towards reconquering the Gaza Strip or bombing it to rubble. The result of such policy could be the worst humanitarian crisis the region has experienced since 1948. Especially if Hezbollah and Palestinian forces in the West Bank join the fray, the death toll could reach many thousands, with millions more driven from their homes. On both sides of the fence, there are religious fanatics fixated on divine promises and the 1948 war. Palestinians dream of reversing the outcome of that war. Jewish zealots like the finance minister Bezalel Smotrich have warned even Arab citizens of Israel that “you are here by mistake because Ben-Gurion [Israel’s first prime minister] didn’t finish the job in ’48 and didn’t kick you out”; 2023 could enable fanatics on both sides to pursue their religious fantasies, and re-stage the 1948 war with a vengeance.

Even if things don’t go to such extremes, the current conflict is likely to put the last nail in the coffin of the Israeli-Palestinian peace process. The kibbutzim along the Gaza border have been socialist communes and some of the most tenacious bastions of the Israeli left. I know people from those kibbutzim who, after years of almost daily rocket attacks from Gaza, still clung to the hope of peace, as if to a religious cult. These kibbutzim have just been obliterated, and some of the last peaceniks are either murdered, burying their loved ones, or held hostage in Gaza. For example, Vivian Silver, a peace activist from Kibbutz Be’eri who for years has been transporting ailing Gazans to Israeli hospitals, is missing and likely held hostage in Gaza.

What has already happened cannot be undone. The dead cannot be brought back to life, and the personal traumas will never completely heal. But we must prevent further escalation. Many of the forces in the region are currently led by irresponsible religious fanatics. External forces must therefore intervene to deescalate the conflict. Anyone who wishes for peace must unequivocally condemn the Hamas atrocities, put pressure on Hamas to immediately and unconditionally release all the hostages , and help deter Hezbollah and Iran from intervening. This would give Israelis a bit of breathing space and a tiny ray of hope.

Second, a coalition of the willing – ranging from the US and the EU to Saudi Arabia and the Palestinian Authority – should take responsibility for the Gaza Strip away from Hamas, rebuild Gaza and simultaneously completely disarm Hamas and demilitarise the Gaza Strip.

There are only slim chances that these steps will be realised. But after the recent horrors, most Israelis don’t think they can live with anything less.
#15290764
@Neo, issue is, unless Israel engages in TRUE ethnic cleansing (they won't because it won't get that level of support from the west). Taking on this hardline war approach simply isn't going to work in the long term. Basically, they're going to kill a bunch of innocent people in this process of hunting Hamas, and not resolve anything.

There isn't a solution here.
#15290792
@Rancid

What other response should Israel take? Surrender? If they don't respond, it will incentivize Hamas to do this sort of thing again in the future, and Israel cannot afford that. The Israeli government has a duty and obligation to protect their citizens and deter this thing from happening again and deterrence can only happen with Israel dealing severe punishment in return.

Israel is resorting to a full on siege be denying all of Gaza food, water, fuel, and electricity because they know, Hamas has family that lives there and people they care about, just as Israel cares about those innocent hostages that Hamas has taken. There is no morality here. This is what it means to go to war and it's terrible. But Israel must do what it must to protect their citizens.

I have no doubt that Israel will go after and kill Hamas operatives responsible for this atrocity. You can't win "hearts and minds" in a place like Gaza, but you can certainly take action that deters such behavior by Hamas in the future. Israel shouldn't even bother trying to win "hearts and minds" as that approach has been tried and doesn't work in cases like this. At the end of the day, Hamas started it and they are responsible for all the deaths that happen.

If Hamas didn't start it, none of this would be happening right now. Israeli should continue to deny food, water, fuel and electricity to Gaza until all hostages are released without conditions.

And you're right, there is no solution here, but Israel cannot do nothing either and the best they can do is take action to deter Hamas in the future from taking another similar or worse action. And, not reward this hostage taking as it only incentivizes Hamas and other terrorists organizations to do it again in the future.
#15290793
Neo wrote:And you're right, there is no solution here, but Israel cannot do nothing either and the best they can do is take action to deter Hamas in the future from taking another similar or worse action. And, not reward this hostage taking as it only incentivizes Hamas and other terrorists organizations to do it again in the future.



Round and round we go. :hmm:
#15290797
Neo wrote:@Rancid

What other response should Israel take? Surrender? If they don't respond, it will incentivize Hamas to do this sort of thing again in the future, and Israel cannot afford that. The Israeli government has a duty and obligation to protect their citizens and deter this thing from happening again and deterrence can only happen with Israel dealing severe punishment in return.

Israel is resorting to a full on siege be denying all of Gaza food, water, fuel, and electricity because they know, Hamas has family that lives there and people they care about, just as Israel cares about those innocent hostages that Hamas has taken. There is no morality here. This is what it means to go to war and it's terrible. But Israel must do what it must to protect their citizens.

I have no doubt that Israel will go after and kill Hamas operatives responsible for this atrocity. You can't win "hearts and minds" in a place like Gaza, but you can certainly take action that deters such behavior by Hamas in the future. Israel shouldn't even bother trying to win "hearts and minds" as that approach has been tried and doesn't work in cases like this. At the end of the day, Hamas started it and they are responsible for all the deaths that happen.

If Hamas didn't start it, none of this would be happening right now. Israeli should continue to deny food, water, fuel and electricity to Gaza until all hostages are released without conditions.

And you're right, there is no solution here, but Israel cannot do nothing either and the best they can do is take action to deter Hamas in the future from taking another similar or worse action. And, not reward this hostage taking as it only incentivizes Hamas and other terrorists organizations to do it again in the future.


Chances are Israel will end up reoccupying Gaza. I don't know what happens next, the West needs to be present - on the ground - if that happens to have leverage and make sure Gaza is either placed under Palestinian rule or managed by the international community.
#15290800
wat0n wrote:Chances are Israel will end up reoccupying Gaza. I don't know what happens next, the West needs to be present - on the ground - if that happens to have leverage and make sure Gaza is either placed under Palestinian rule or managed by the international community.


I doubt Iran can allow this to happen then they Send their allies Lebanon and Syria...

Iran has with Basiji militia, Army and Revolutionary Guard 12 million under Arms manpower proved to be important showed the Ukraine war.
#15290801
Sandzak wrote:I doubt Iran can allow this to happen then they Send their allies Lebanon and Syria...


I doubt Iran wants to open a second front for Hezbollah, having it fight Assad's opposition and Israel at the same time.
#15290803
The UN stated that you can't throw a bunch of leaflets in the Gaza Strip telling people to leave within 24 hours or else. Those are millions of people there. How are you expecting them to pack two items and leave so fast? Some are injured and have disabled people. It is a violation of human rights.

Killing innocent civilians on both sides is a horror that must stop. Immediately.

#15290805
Neo wrote:If Hamas didn't start it, none of this would be happening right now. Israeli should continue to deny food, water, fuel and electricity to Gaza until all hostages are released without conditions.

Oh please try and be serious. What so Hamas are going to hand over their hostages for nothing and then what? You're going to go in anyway? I say nothing, because what guarantee would Hamas even have that you would keep them supplied with water and food. OK so I'm just some guy on the internet, you're free to pay attention or dismiss what I think and feel as you wish. But I think you'll find that I'm willing to go a lot further to support Israel than a lot of people in the West. Basically I'm willing to support you under 4 scenarios that I can think of.

1 You find a Muslim country that's willing to resettle the Gazan people. You will immediately restore water and food supplies to Gaza. The Gazans will be given generous time to uproot their lives and move. You will release all Palestinian prisoners as long as a country is willing to accept them. I don't expect you to be the sole provider, but Israel will make a massive contribution to the generous compensation that will be paid to all those that willingly leave. After that I will support you using full force to force surrender on those who refuse to leave.

2 As above but the United States gives the Palestinians a homeland to help out Israel that they care so desperately about.

3 Failing the above you unilaterally return Gazans to Egyptian citizenship. Until Egypt capitulates you will unilaterally take over the border into Egypt. If necessary you will temporarily take over the whole of Sinai and even the Suez Canal. This will allow Gazans to relocate to Egypt. I will support the full deployment of NATO to support this endeavor. Again all the other conditions apply as before, water and food supplies must be restored immediately, generous compensation, prisoner release et, etc.

4 Gaza is to be brought under the Israeli rule of law. Gazans are to be given full Israeli citizenship. Again Food and Water supplies are to be immediately restored. The UN to come in, maybe with NATO help as well to disarm Hamas. Hopefully safe passage can be found for the most die hard rejectionists of becoming Israeli citizens. New elections to be held within 6 months to form a government representative of Israel's new demography.

Those are the only solutions I can think of, but I'm totally open to hearing a solution that I have not thought. What I will not be supporting is the Gazan population being transferred to Europe or the Gazans being forced into an even smaller land area.
Last edited by Rich on 14 Oct 2023 00:03, edited 1 time in total.
#15290815
Rich wrote:Oh please try and be serious. What so Hamas are going to hand over their hostages for nothing and then what? You're going to go in anyway? I say nothing, because what guarantee would Hamas even have that you would keep them supplied with water and food. OK so I'm just some guy on the internet, you're free to pay attention or dismiss what I think and feel as you wish. But I think you'll find that I'm willing to go a lot further to support Israel than a lot of people in the West. Basically I'm willing to support you under 3 scenarios that I can think of.

1 You find a Muslim country that's willing to resettle the Gazan people. You will immediately restore water and food supplies to Gaza. The Gazans will be given generous time to uproot their lives and move. You will release all Palestinian prisoners as long as a country is willing to accept them. I don't expect you to be the sole provider, but Israel will make a massive contribution to the generous compensation that will be paid to all those that willingly leave. After that I will support you using full force to force surrender on those who refuse to leave.

2 Failing the above you unilaterally return Gazans to Egyptian citizenship. Until Egypt capitulates you will unilaterally take over the border into Egypt. If necessary you will temporarily take over the whole of Sinai and even the Suez Canal. This will allow Gazans to relocate to Egypt. I will support the full deployment of NATO to support this endeavor. Again all the other conditions apply as before, water and food supplies must be restored immediately, generous compensation, prisoner release et, etc.

3 Gaza is to be brought under the Israeli rule of law. Gazans are to be given full Israeli citizenship. Again Food and Water supplies are to be immediately restored. The UN to come in, maybe with NATO help as well to disarm Hamas. Hopefully safe passage can be found for the most die hard rejectionists of becoming Israeli citizens. New elections to be held within 6 months to form a government representative of Israel's new demography.

Those are the only solutions I can think of, but I'm totally open to hearing a solution that I have not thought. What I will not be supporting is the Gazan population being transferred to Europe or the Gazans being forced into an even smaller land area.


I propose the Gazans go and live next door to you in England Rich. I say the Hamas supporters move in to your town in England eh. And it better not be London. I say your part of the UK. Tainari votes for you to be friends with Palestineans and you have some tea and cookies with them eh?

:lol:

I think your plan is more humane than Netanyahu's. But I think Hamas calculated that Netanyahu was not going to be soft on the deal. Mr. Zionist Right Winger PM is predictable in his response.
#15290820
Please note that Israel is as bad as Palestine.

Collective punishment is a war crime prohibited by treaty in both international and non-international armed conflicts, more specifically Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions and Additional Protocol II.

By punishing all Palestinians for this recent terrorist attack, they actually are creating more hate against Israel and helping Hamas(the terrorist organization part of their government) recruit more people to their cause, as it demonstrates how terrible Israel is.
Last edited by Godstud on 14 Oct 2023 00:01, edited 1 time in total.
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