[Pants-of-dog]

If the second incident occurred at the Rafah border crossing, the only militants in that area are IDF soldiers.

Ao there were no casualties in the first incident, and the second incident could not possibly have been Hamas.

[wat0n]

The second incident took place in Rafah itself. You can see the video and see it is clearly within the city.

I don't understand the attempt to defend Hamas' treatment of Gazans here.

[JohnRawls]

Hey

1) Hamas supporters why are hostages not released yet or atleast their bodies not given to Israel if they are dead? May be change your government to somebody who is for peace? Do you like whats happening? It is well deserved after the attack.

2) Israel supporters do you really think that speeding up ethnic cleansing is gonna solve this? May be change your government to somebody who is for peace? Do you like whats happening? The slow ethnic cleansing also was the cause for the attack and will happen again eventually in one form or the other, do you want that?

Bye Bye

[wat0n]

2) Israel supporters do you really think that speeding up ethnic cleansing is gonna solve this? May be change your government to somebody who is for peace?

Sure, I think Netanyahu needs to go.

Defeating Hamas is only the first condition to go back to the negotiating table.

[JohnRawls]

Sure, I think Netanyahu needs to go.

Defeating Hamas is only the first condition to go back to the negotiating table.

Current Israel government has not been interested in peace since early 90s/late 80s the same way as Palestinian government has not been interested in peace since forever. What peace are we even talking about?

[wat0n]

Current Israel government has not been interested in peace since early 90s/late 80s the same way as Palestinian government has not been interested in peace since forever. What peace are we even talking about?

Camp David and even Taba were real attempts to make peace by implementing the two-state solution, @JohnRawls. The disagreements that doomed the process answered to legitimate concerns by both sides.

[Pants-of-dog]

The second incident took place at the Israel/Egypt border crossing.

This crossing is controlled by the IDF.

It is not possible for Hamas to have been there, armed and hostile, and there to have been no military engagement between these two forces.

The people shooting at the crossing were not Hamas, Even Israeli media does not identify the shooters as Hamas. Instead, they are described as Rafah police.

[JohnRawls]

Camp David and even Taba were real attempts to make peace by implementing the two-state solution, @JohnRawls. The disagreements that doomed the process answered to legitimate concerns by both sides.

Sure whatever. What I know though is that both sides are not interested in peace NOW and have not been for the last 25+ years now.

[Pants-of-dog]

It is impossible to have peace when one side wants to kill the other side in order to take their land and resources.

[wat0n]

Right, which is why Hamas needs to be defeated.

Sure whatever. What I know though is that both sides are not interested in peace NOW and have not been for the last 25+ years now.

One may wonder if this will remain the case after this war. But even if a majority of both wanted peace, it's irrelevant if a well-armed minority can keep fighting regardless. That's why Hamas needs to be defeated, although this is just step #1.

[JohnRawls]

It is impossible to have peace when one side wants to kill the other side in order to take their land and resources.

It is impossible to have peace when one side wants to exterminate the other side.

Both your quote and my sentence above are the usual lines which are a lie by the way. Things change, things can change and things will change if both sides put people interested in peace in charge given time and effort and support.

[Pants-of-dog]

It is impossible to have peace when one side wants to exterminate the other side.

Both your quote and my sentence above are the usual lines which are a lie by the way. Things change, things can change and things will change if both sides put people interested in peace in charge given time and effort and support.

The situation in Israel, like my own home countries, is one where the government has a vested financial interest in getting rid of all the Indigenous communities that still claim the land and resources.

Getting rid of these other claimants makes sense. In academic terms, this is called the logic of elimination of settler colonialism.

Until the situation changes where there is no structural logic incentivizing genocide, there will be no stopping the IDF and Israeli government from continuing the ongoing genocide.

[JohnRawls]

The situation in Israel, like my own home countries, is one where the government has a vested financial interest in getting rid of all the Indigenous communities that still claim the land and resources.

Getting rid of these other claimants makes sense. In academic terms, this is called the logic of elimination of settler colonialism.

Until the situation changes where there is no structural logic incentivizing genocide, there will be no stopping the IDF and Israeli government from continuing the ongoing genocide.

No, the damage from the conflict and death far exceeds any financial gain. Spending on war or the extra taxes they require also. Your take is just stupid.

Reality is much simpler, both Palestinian and Israeli governments just want to be in power and its easier to be in power when you are pro-war and there is war and you convince people there is nothing but war as a way out. May be the people in power even convinced themselves of that kinda like Putin with his weird bullshit. Who knows.

[wat0n]

Both your quote and my sentence above are the usual lines which are a lie by the way. Things change, things can change and things will change if both sides put people interested in peace in charge given time and effort and support.

Correct. Which is, again, why Hamas must be defeated so it won't be in charge anymore, and why Israel needs to have an election so Netanyahu is replaced.

[Pants-of-dog]

No, the damage from the conflict and death far exceeds any financial gain. Spending on war or the extra taxes they require also. Your take is just stupid.

In this context, it is one group paying the cost (the damage from the conflict and death,as you describe it) and another receiving the financial gain.

And spending on war is a good way to transfer large amounts of wealth from the public sector to the private sector. It is an economic stimulus.

Reality is much simpler, both Palestinian and Israeli governments just want to be in power and its easier to be in power when you are pro-war and there is war and you convince people there is nothing but war as a way out. May be the people in power even convinced themselves of that kinda like Putin with his weird bullshit. Who knows.

Our two arguments are not mutually exclusive. Both seem to be correct. My argument also encompasses the fact that Israel has the overwhelming military and economic power, and that there is a history of Israeli acquisition of land and resources to the detriment of Palestinians.

[wat0n]

In this context, it is one group paying the cost (the damage from the conflict and death,as you describe it) and another receiving the financial gain.

And spending on war is a good way to transfer large amounts of wealth from the public sector to the private sector. It is an economic stimulus.

Which is which?

Oh right, I bet you will now deny the deaths of 1,200 Israelis, and the mass rapes.

As for the economic angle, Israel's GDP dropped by 20% in 2023Q4.

Our two arguments are not mutually exclusive. Both seem to be correct. My argument also encompasses the fact that Israel has the overwhelming military and economic power, and that there is a history of Israeli acquisition of land and resources to the detriment of Palestinians.

Not in Gaza.

[ingliz]

Don't worry @Pants-of-dog.

With any luck, Americans will be too busy killing their fellow Americans next Christmas to aid Israel in the killing of Palestinians.

If I don't get elected it's going be a bloodbath.

— Trump, Dayton Ohio, 18 Mar 2024

They can't afford a forever war without American aid.

[wat0n]

I doubt this will be still going on by Christmas. And I would expect Israel's GDP to stop falling, eventually.

[ingliz]

@wat0n


Doubt away, but Netanyahu looks to be digging in for the long haul.

[wat0n]

@wat0n


Doubt away, but Netanyahu looks to be digging in for the long haul.

Indeed, he hopes to avoid an election. But the Haredi draft issue may as well bring him down.

And that is blowing up right now.