Abbott's wall punching incident ... - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14057631
Is this going to have any long term traction, or is it going to fade fast? By long term traction I mean ... more in a subtle sense ... with some voters who were perhaps already even subconsciously gravitating away from Abbott, starting to consolidate a mindset that they can't bring themselves to vote for him. Or not nominate the Coalition as their poll preference.
Last edited by unbalanced zealot on 14 Sep 2012 05:09, edited 1 time in total.
#14057653
His wife looked like a piglet. So maybe he spank her :)

Anyhow, I think these Abbott punch/violence stories are a bit of a hatchet job by FairFax. They keep running with this story that no one cares about.
#14057670
Notorious B.i.G. wrote:This will go nowhere.
Just like Rudd and the strip club. Latham punching a cabbie. Peter Costello getting to fisticuffs at Uni with Red Mortimer.


With one key difference though - Abbott is the only one in this group to have denied that it happened. I too would be surprised if this went anywhere, but this seems a dangerous way to deal with it. If he said "yeah I did it, so what? It was 30 something years ago, shit happens when you're young etc" - what more can be said about it? The scandal surely dies right there. But by denying it he is inviting the muck rakers to actually present evidence that he is lying - and at the very least Abbott is saying that the woman accusing him is lying, which could be dangerous.

And incidentally, my impression was that when Latham did not shy away from his little cab-driver incident, if anything that resonated with the public - especially when it was revealed the cabi was trying to ripp him off.
#14057674
I don’t know if admitting to it is a good move for Tony though.
He already has the reputation as fighter, a brawler, and not just from his boxing days, but because of his attack dog style of politics and behaviour in parliament.
With the other, yes you could pass it off as youth doing something stupid, as they didn’t seem to have that personality about them (though in hindsight Latham did). But with Tony, admitting it would just be another confirmation that he is an ultra aggressive individual. Something Abbott is fighting (pardon the pun) to avoid.
#14060552
GandalfTheGrey wrote:
And incidentally, my impression was that when Latham did not shy away from his little cab-driver incident, if anything that resonated with the public - especially when it was revealed the cabi was trying to ripp him off.


Rudd certainly had no choice but to fess up, Strip Clubs have security cameras(might only be a limited time, but as Thompson proved, the general perception is they keep long records) and use credit cards, etc. He probably percieved that couldn't have denied it even if he wanted to. Also of cause Strip Clubs can have many people attending at the same time, so chances are he was NOT prepared to take the risk of having multiple people come foward at once.

Also Cabbies(in particular indian ones) have a pretty strong union/cultural/group mentality, and Latham didn't have much of a choice either from that point of view... Union men tend to understand better the "union/group mentality". If he had of shied away from the incident, they would have probably taken it public anyway. I'm not sure about back then, but these days they also have security camera's in cabs and keep good records of each trip and booking made. And was Latham charged or did the incident go to the police at the time? because that changes things considerably. Certainly the Cabbie probably filed a report to his boss at the time, otherwise the incident would have been ripped to shreds by Latham on the grounds of no real evidence.

No the real diffrence between the incidents is that the other incidents were percieved(at the very least) to involve more evidence than just eyewitness account and they were all still quite recent(as in less than a decade old).... This accusation against Abbott is nearly 30 years old, and relying on just eyewitness testimony, with no documentation to back that up so far. It sounds just like a made up story that she, as a potential(not sure of her political alligence myself, I'll look into it) Labor supporter had done to get revenge on an old university rival who she still hates for whatever petty reason. Also why has it taken till now(on the eve of the election early next year) for this whole incident to come out right from the blue.... this reeks of the same damn stench you accused that aide to Slipper of being guilty of Gandalf....
#14060566
colliric wrote:Rudd certainly had no choice but to fess up.

It didn’t matter, 1) it’s only a strip club, 2) it was endearing because it showed he was human and not a robot.

colliric wrote:Also Cabbies(in particular indian ones) have a pretty strong union/cultural/group mentality, and Latham didn't have much of a choice either from that point of view... Union men tend to understand better the "union/group mentality". If he had of shied away from the incident, they would have probably taken it public anyway. I'm not sure about back then, but these days they also have security camera's in cabs and keep good records of each trip and booking made. And was Latham charged or did the incident go to the police at the time? because that changes things considerably. Certainly the Cabbie probably filed a report to his boss at the time, otherwise the incident would have been ripped to shreds by Latham on the grounds of no real evidence.

Huh? Thinly veiled swipe at unions?

colliric wrote:It sounds just like a made up story that she, as a potential(not sure of her political alligence myself, I'll look into it) Labor supporter had done to get revenge on an old university

If you don’t know why make such a moronic supposition.
#14060589
Notorious B.i.G. wrote:It didn’t matter, 1) it’s only a strip club, 2) it was endearing because it showed he was human and not a robot.

1) You're not a woman(and neither am I)
2) You're not a woman(and neither am I)

Women voters care about that shit, especially because he had a Wife.

Notorious B.i.G. wrote:Huh? Thinly veiled swipe at unions?


Union mentality and Group/Gang mentality are cut from the same "we're all brothers/comrades here" cloth. Cabbies hang out in packs(especially the Indian cabbies)....literally in this city, as they have a spot on Bourke Street where you'll never see less than 25 cabs taking up the rank AND all the public spaces for an entire block, a few of them even illegally parked at the same time. It wasn't a criticism, but an observation.

If you don’t know why make such a moronic supposition.


Because I've seen it happen elsewhere over and over and over again with gossiping women bringing up dirt on some guy's past just because they want to see him ruined as some kind of idiotic longterm grudge that he's long forgotten about. It happened my Parish Priest at my Church.... The woman who did it was legally declared a "Vexatious Litigant", because it was all bullshit done to cause him stress and get somekind of long term "revenge". If it wasn't a common occurance, they wouldn't need to use that term. I know this woman accusing abbott hasn't gone to court over it(who knows, she might be thinking "they're just going to throw it out and declare me Vexatious because there's no evidence"), but she's taken it to the media and you have to admit it certainly looks suss. Either they've run with it in their own petty desire to make news out of it and wreck Abbott themselves(pretty common with the media, they did it to Latham too in my opinion, and Keating hated the media with passion for dragging stuff up about him and his friends, he wanted total control of the ABC.... so it's not just limited to Liberal Party attacks), and/or she's just plain bullshitting and/or exaggurating and/or misremembering the incident in her own petty way of getting back at him.
#14060602
colliric wrote:Women voters care about that shit, especially because he had a Wife.

I can’t say definitively that they don’t. But it obviously wasn’t a big issue for them because Rudd still won the election. If women voters gave enough of a 'shit', they wouldn’t have voted for Rudd

colliric wrote:Union mentality and Group/Gang mentality are cut from the same "we're all brothers/comrades here" cloth. Cabbies hang out in packs(especially the Indian cabbies)....literally in this city, as they have a spot on Bourke Street where you'll never see less than 25 cabs taking up the rank AND all the public spaces for an entire block, a few of them even illegally parked at the same time. It wasn't a criticism, but an observation.

Again, huh? This and above make no sense. And what have Indians got to do with this? The cabbie that Latham punched was a white male, so why bring up Indians at all?
And that kind of behaviour isn’t exclusive to cabbies from the Sub-cotenant. It is typical cabbie behaviour, in any City.

colliric wrote:Because I've seen it happen elsewhere over and over and over again with gossiping women bringing up dirt on some guy's past just because they want to see him ruined as some kind of idiotic longterm grudge that he's long forgotten about.

That’s rather sexist. I guess, gossiping is women’s only behaviour. Not a like a man to gossip, saying things such as “not sure of her political alligence (sic) myself, I'll look into it, Labor supporter had done to get revenge”.

colliric wrote: Either they've run with it in their own petty desire to make news out of it and wreck Abbott

Notorious B.i.G. wrote: I think these Abbott punch/violence stories are a bit of a hatchet job by FairFax. They keep running with this story that no one cares about.
#14060615
Notorious B.i.G. wrote:I can’t say definitively that they don’t. But it obviously wasn’t a big issue for them because Rudd still won the election. If women voters gave enough of a 'shit', they wouldn’t have voted for Rudd

Again, huh? This and above make no sense. And what have Indians got to do with this? The cabbie that Latham punched was a white male, so why bring up Indians at all?
And that kind of behaviour isn’t exclusive to cabbies from the Sub-cotenant. It is typical cabbie behaviour, in any City.

That’s rather sexist. I guess, gossiping is women’s only behaviour. Not a like a man to gossip, saying things such as “not sure of her political alligence (sic) myself, I'll look into it, Labor supporter had done to get revenge”.



Well that's what Rudd percieved would be the issue in my own personal opinion. Even if it wasn't in the end(Partly because he came out and confessed it, which is pretty much all he could do anyway).

There's alot of Indian cabbies in Melbourne, that's all I'm saying. I know it's typical "cabbie union" behaviour, but in Melbourne the majority of them are from the sub-continent so forgive me for pointing that out.

Although certainly men can be Vexatious too, I can't lie and say I've ever actually heard of any man do it in my own social circles. I mostly hear about women doing it far more than I've ever heard about men doing that(I've NEVER heard it done by a male in my usual circles). Yes, in the media I've heard about men you would describe using that word, but not in the local groups.

Most of the harrasment I've heard men purportrate in my local area is of that "stalking/threatening a woman(or another man if they are gay) with violence/rape" kind. Which frankly, i'm going to say this too, I've never heard of a woman I know doing that to a man(and we all know the statistics on rape/stalking show that men are far more likely to commit it than women, so this has statistics that back it up). I know it happens too from women, but I mostly hear stories about men that make what Mel Gibson did look like "he was just trying to be nice". Most men end up getting over it and moving on, even forgetting they ever did it(till it happens again).

I wonder if there's a bit of that dual dynamic in this incident actually.... That woman or the media being Vexatious and dragging up a story 30 years old about an incident a man like Abbott(or Latham, etc) MIGHT have committed and then frankly personally gotten over it even to the point of having forgotten it ever happened. To him it might have just been an off the cuff male angst moment(we've all experienced that surely, I know I have) and then it was gone and over.... To her being a woman, she probably didn't understand he was just letting off steam on the Wall(if indeed the incident ever happened) and no real "threat" was ever being made.... Heck Alistair Clarkson punched a massive hole in the MCG coaching box wall(heck and his side is doing so well now they're Premiership favourites so the "wall punch steam letoff" probably helped him concentrate on the season ahead), and no one thought anything major of it.. there was even another incident he was involved in a few weeks later at a Kids footy clenic too where he punched an umpire(or something like that). Did he get sacked? NO(his side is on target for Premiership 2012). Ok so did it get reported on end for days and then years, even after he's probably forgotten the moment ever happened, some woman bring it up? NO, both incidents got a few pages and then were promptly forgotten about as after all he's likely to win the Jock Mchale medal this year. Imagine if there had of been a woman in the box watching the game sitting there seeing him put his fist in the wall right near her.... Yet it was immediatly there in the paper and then gone, and didn't cost him his job or his reputation... only a couple of bucks to fix the wall. Yet Abbott is getting mauled in Polls for something that has no evidence beyond eyewitness account, is more than 30 years old(almost 40 actually) and which even if he did do it, he probably got over it, dealt with his frustration and just moved on to the point of forgetting it ever occured.

P.S. Instead, Carlton Coach Bret Ratten, one of the nicest people in the AFL, got a knife in the back just because he dared bring the side up from 30% win rate to a 55% win rate, made the finals 3 out of 5 years(After Carlton spent many years at 16th) and they thought it wasn't good enough so he was sacked.... meanwhile the Wall-Umpire puncher only had to pay a few bucks to the 'G.
#14060712
Is ‘Vexatious’ your word of the week?

Clarkson and Abbott incidents are so not comparable. Firstly, Clarkson hit the wall which no one was standing against or in close proximity to. Nor was his gesture aimed at any one person.

Abbott supposedly hit the wall throwing a punch that went past this women’s face/head, as she was standing directly in front of the wall. The story is that he was deliberately intimidating her, aiming at her. It should be noted that assault doesn’t just have to be actually landing the blow on the body. It is also assault if the individual seriously believed they were going to be harmed. If someone threw a punch towards you, you thought it was going to hit you, but was cleverly designed just to miss you, or hit something right next to your face, that doesn’t lessen the intimidation factor. You thought the intent was for the punch to hit you.

Women don’t understand letting off steam?

colliric wrote:P.S. Instead, Carlton Coach Bret Ratten, one of the nicest people in the AFL, got a knife in the back just because he dared bring the side up from 30% win rate to a 55% win rate, made the finals 3 out of 5 years(After Carlton spent many years at 16th) and they thought it wasn't good enough so he was sacked.... meanwhile the Wall-Umpire puncher only had to pay a few bucks to the 'G.

Irrelevant.
GtG best move these bits to sport because I’m going to reply anyway.
Ratten was hired to do a job. He didn’t do it. His brief was not to take the win rate to 55% or to just make the finals 3 out of 5 years. It was to build a premiership side and compete in at least preliminary finals. He failed to meet let alone exceed expectations. He has been replaced by someone that Carlton believe will succeed.

You wouldn’t hire an investment manager with a brief to return 9% over the market return, and have him only return 3% and say ‘well, while you’re not achieving your goal, I’m only slightly better off then I was before. I’ll keep you.’ You fire the person who is underperforming expectations and hire someone else who you believe will perform at expectations or exceed them.
#14060747
Notorious B.i.G. wrote:Is ‘Vexatious’ your word of the week?

Clarkson and Abbott incidents are so not comparable. Firstly, Clarkson hit the wall which no one was standing against or in close proximity to. Nor was his gesture aimed at any one person.


hmmm... You must have missed the part I mentioned about the second incident that occurred a few days later. He also was threatening kids Umpire at a game which his son was playing in. So yeah he was involved in an incident aimed at a particular person.

edit: He "only" threatened him.

Also when you've been finish 16th and your new coach takes you to the top 8 in 3 out of 5 seasons you don't "do a Richmond on him" and punish him for not making the finals well enough. It took Malthouse 11 seasons to deliver what Eddie promised in 1998. Don't be surprised if he takes just as long to turn Carlton around too. They built up the first time and missed out then spent another 6 years rebuilding the Club from scratch till they finally won after taking it an extra game too.
Last edited by colliric on 18 Sep 2012 07:24, edited 1 time in total.
#14060755
colliric wrote:hmmm... You must have missed the part I mentioned about the second incident that occurred a few days later. He also was threatening kids Umpire at a game which his son was playing in. So yeah he was involved in an incident aimed at a particular person.

edit: He "only" threatened him.


No I read the whole comment. Your point was...
colliric wrote: “Heck Alistair Clarkson punched a massive hole in the MCG coaching box wall(heck and his side is doing so well now they're Premiership favourites so the "wall punch steam letoff" probably helped him concentrate on the season ahead), and no one thought anything major of it..”

which was directly comparing the Clarkson wall punching with Abbott wall punching. Two incidents that are not comparable except for a wall being involved, as I pointed out.

As for the other Clarkson incident. Yes Clarkson did threaten an umpire at his kids games. Which he duly admitted fault and took the punishment handed out to him in good grace. Again, not particularly comparable to the Abbott incident. I’m not doubting he did it, just saying they’re different.
#14061478
unbalanced zealot wrote:Is this going to have any long term traction, or is it going to fade fast? By long term traction I mean ... more in a subtle sense ... with some voters who were perhaps already even subconsciously gravitating away from Abbott, starting to consolidate a mindset that they can't bring themselves to vote for him. Or not nominate the Coalition as their poll preference.


Ok......shame on Abbott for beating up a defenceless brick wall as a pimply faced uni student........but I believe those intelligent specimens of society that decide their vote based purely upon the personality of party Leaders have already made their minds up on that front….. and the regurgitation of 30 YO crud won't really change things too much…… :|
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