[AVT]

I am suprised this hasn't been commented on here yet, I was out in the desert working when I saw the footage and could not believe it, anyway story:

THE Prime Minister and NSW Premier have condemned yesterday's violent Islamic protest that has horrified the nation, saying it represented 'the unacceptable face of multiculturalism' and was not 'the Australian way'.

Julia Gillard singled out the chilling image of a young child photographed by a woman as he held aloft a poster preaching death.

"I absolutely condemn the violence that we saw yesterday on the streets of Sydney," Ms Gillard said. "There is never any excuse for violent behaviour.
"I do not want to see in the hands of anyone, particularly children, offensive signs that call for the killing of others . This is not the Australian way."

Meanwhile Barry O'Farrell told Sky News: "What we saw yesterday was the unacceptable face of multiculturalism,"
"I'm just horrified by what I saw."

Federal Opposition Leader Tony Abbott said yesterday's ugliness did not fairly reflect the Islamic people of Australia.

Mr Abbott said newcomers to Australia were not expected to surrender their heritage but were expected to surrender their hatreds.
"I think that's the message that has got to go from every Australian to those people on the streets of Sydney yesterday.
"I don't believe we saw an acceptable face of Islam yesterday."

But outspoken Nationals senator Barnaby Joyce said political leaders must speak out to protect Australia "from what we might become years down the track".
"It's not xenophobic to ask what is in your national interest and what values we support and what actions we will condone," Senator Joyce told the Nationals' federal conference in Canberra.
"The riot that has happened in Sydney was supported by a certain world view that is not in our national interest. A response is demanded by politicians."

It came as the first of six men charged over yesterday's violence appeared in court today.
Father of three Ahmed Elomar, a 29-year-old champion boxer, was charged with affray and has been refused bail to appear again on Tuesday. The other defendants will face court next month.
Elomar displayed little emotion as he appeared in Parramatta Bail Court via video link wearing a T-shirt displaying the phrase "6th pillar".
Lawyer Greg Scragg argued that his client had not taken part in alleged acts of throwing bottles at police during the Sydney protest, adding that a shoulder injury sustained from a skiing accident in August had been exacerbated by his arrest.

"He was caught up in circumstances that got out of hand," Mr Scragg said.

"His arrest was not justified. His arrest was done in circumstances of over-policing.

"He was taken to the ground. While he was on the ground he was kneed in the back, he was sprayed with pepper spray."

However Magistrate Andrew George said Elomar had breached bail for driving offences and could not be trusted to obey bail conditions.
The nation was horrified by shockingly violent scenes yesterday as police were forced to use capsicum spray during a running battle with angry rioters in the Sydney CBD as the anti-America rally erupted into a series of violent clashes.

Triggered by a YouTube video mocking Islam and the prophet Mohammed, the city was rocked by a wild melee involving more than a 1000 protesters, with police being struck by water bottles, rocks and pieces of timber.

Six policemen were among a dozen people injured, with two officers requiring hospital treatment as the inner-city streets and Hyde Park turned into bloody battlegrounds.

Frontline police, including a dozen dog handlers, resorted to using capsicum spray as a wall of protesters tried to storm past them.

The Sydney riot follows a deadly wave of Islamic protests around the world which have left at least six people dead - including the horrific killings of US ambassador Chris Stevens and three US nationals in Libya on Tuesday.

The Sydney riot caused traffic chaos, forcing diversions as the placard-waving protesters - many of them women and children - gathered at Sydney's Town Hall around noon before moving to the US consulate in Martin Place.

Most disturbing was a shocking image of a young boy in Hyde Park holding a sign declaring: "Behead all those who insult the prophet". It went viral on social media.

Other sign slogans included: "Our dead are in paradise, your dead are in hell".

The crowd then headed to Hyde Park chanting "Down, down USA".

It's there where the violence exploded. As police tried to disperse the crowd officers were attacked. They used capsicum spray to defend themselves. Police said cars were damaged and eight people were arrested.

At least one man was arrested in the late afternoon for attacking a police dog.

At least seven people were taken to hospital. Violence again broke out at 4.30pm when riot police clashed with the surging crowd as it attempted to move from Hyde Park towards Martin Place.

About 300 police in riot gear and on horseback chased the rally, numbering 100, east of Hyde Park and down William St, leaving traffic at a standstill.

Sections of roads, including Martin Place and Castlereagh, George and Market streets, were shut down while protesters moved through the city.

In one ugly incident, a man whipped up the protesters when he began yelling at the crowd, screaming: "Shame on you for using religion to advocate for murder." He was set upon by a group of men before police dragged him to safety.

Sydney remained on alert last night as police feared the violence could spill over again, despite pleading for peace and calm.

Police Minister Mike Gallacher said: "The violence we have seen is unacceptable.
"What we saw was a complete disrespect of our peaceful way of life.

"I praise the NSW Police Force for their swift and poised action. They are trained for situations like this and they did an excellent job in containing what was a very aggressive and violent crowd."

Protest organisers - who used social media to corral the protesters to Town Hall - said the demonstration was designed to be peaceful.

They stopped to pray and knelt on the ground in between making speeches and protest chants.

One organiser, Sam, told The Sunday Telegraph: "If someone attacked any religion, if Jesus was attacked tomorrow, we would be back here."

When asked whether the protest had been authorised through Sydney City Council, Sam confirmed that it had not because the group was unfamiliar with the rules surrounding staging demonstrations.
Martin Place and Castlereagh, George and Market streets, were shut down while protesters moved through the city.

Police Supt Mark Walton said: "In a very short amount of time we had a significant amount of police able to attend and deal with these people.

In fact, certainly by 1pm we had at least 80 public order riot squad in operation supporting frontline police here and we were able to deal with and react to this crowd."

Another protester said: "We love [Muslim prophet] Mohammed more than ourselves and more than our wives."

Abdullah Sary said the gathering was part of a worldwide protest covering Asia, Africa and western Europe.

"We are here to rally in protest about what they have said [on YouTube] about the prophet Mohammed," he said.

follows several held overseas since protestors first stormed the US consulate in Libya on Tuesday, where ambassador Chris Stevens was killed along with three staff members.

HE barely looks old enough to read but this little boy is holding a sign emblazoned with words of hatred.
"Behead all those who insult the prophet," said the sign, held by the child yesterday in Hyde Park as a woman photographed the scene and a baby slept in a stroller.
The photograph, taken in the midst of violent demonstrations that engulfed Sydney's central business district, was taken by journalist Joel Tozer and uploaded on Twitter at 3.45pm after the protest had moved from the streets to Hyde Park.

It went viral around the globe within minutes and sparked a series of tweets condemning it.
Kuranda Seyit from the Forum on Australia's Islamic Relations said: "Personally, I don't like to see it, it's disturbing. We have seen similar images of children carrying guns in the Middle East and it sends a negative message about Islam."

Of all the images captured in yesterday's riot, this picture will be remembered most. A woman, standing a few metres in front of the child, was spotted taking photographs of the child on her iPhone.
The youngster was not alone. Several other children, aged from five to 12, were also seen in the large crowd of protesters, holding a variety of placards with calls of hatred.

Other slogans scrawled on large pieces of cardboard and proudly held aloft included "Our dead are in paradise, your dead are in hell" and "Behead those who insult Islam".
There were peaceful scenes on the fringe of the protest, with photographs of men praying on grassed areas. Earlier in the day, women and children were told to leave for fear of trouble.
Many took the advice and were seen heading to train stations with their children - but quite a few chose to stay.

First of all I defend the right of people to protest about anything they want to, I would not have a problem with this protest if it did not descend into violence. I do however think that the protesters have done more to atagonise the rest of the Australian public and hurt community relations than a video could ever do.

I have to ask really the wisdom of protesting over a random video made by a US no-body that insults Islam, if anyone uses youtube they know it is full of similar material, some much more critical and demeaning to Islam than this. Also Australian's in general are reluctant to protest about anything and a rally like this (especially one that turns violent) was almost definately going to draw a negative public reaction.

The only consequence of the riot is that non-muslim Australians (many with islamaphobic beliefs) have been given yet another negative perception of Islam and has reinforced a growing community concern over integration of this subset of the community. I also fear that this will be used as recruiting tool by newly created anti-muslim groups which seek to emulate european groups like the EDL etc. All round a bad day for community harmony in Australia.

[Notorious B.i.G.]

I am suprised this hasn't been commented on here yet, I was out in the desert working when I saw the footage and could not believe it,

I believe it’s been referred to in News section with respect to the larger world wide protests. Also, with respect to Australia, it’s a bit of a storm in a teacup.

First of all I defend the right of people to protest about anything they want to, I would not have a problem with this protest if it did not descend into violence. I do however think that the protesters have done more to atagonise the rest of the Australian public and hurt community relations than a video could ever do.

I’d tend to agree with that.

I have to ask really the wisdom of protesting over a random video made by a US no-body that insults Islam, if anyone uses youtube they know it is full of similar material, some much more critical and demeaning to Islam than this.

Exactly. And considering that is appears that most of the protesters had actually not watched the video. But this is a systemic problem of humanity. People love to be outraged for no real reason. On the flip side to this is the Chaser ‘Make a Wish Foundation’ Skit. The moral outrage by people who hadn’t actually seen the skit and protest (in the form of online and talkback etc) from those people is just as idiotic.

The only consequence of the riot is that non-muslim Australians (many with islamaphobic beliefs) have been given yet another negative perception of Islam and has reinforced a growing community concern over integration of this subset of the community. I also fear that this will be used as recruiting tool by newly created anti-muslim groups which seek to emulate european groups like the EDL etc. All round a bad day for community harmony in Australia.

I think this assessment if pretty much spot on. I also think that this will be a vicious cycle. Anti-islam group/people seek to provoke Muslims into outrage. Muslims become outraged, most people realise that they were provoked and don’t care too much, some get fed up and move towards the anti-islam groups. Cycle repeats.

On another point, it has hardly a riot. There was use of force by police and some violence by protesters. But that hardly constitutes a riot.

[AVT]

On another point, it has hardly a riot. There was use of force by police and some violence by protesters. But that hardly constitutes a riot.

From the Australian perspective though this is very uncommon, protests themselves are unusual in Australia, even compared to other western democracies. So when a protest turns violent it is significant, even if it may not even constitute a 'riot' in other countries.

[Notorious B.i.G.]

There was a protest in Melbourne by CFMEU members last month, there was some violence. This wasn't a riot.
The protest at that restaurant in Canberra on Australia day. Was called a riot, that was not a riot as there was no violence.
There is no riot by Australian standards. There is riot, or no riot.

I agree by Australian standards violence is uncommon in protests. But violence does not equal riot.
I’d disagree that protest are unusual in Australia. There are many protest, even daily. I walked past a protest in Sydney the other day. Cleaners protesting their working conditions outside the CBA building. Lasted all of ten minutes, but is still a protest. These small protest are very common.

[GandalfTheGrey]

Yes, this topic has been covered in the Todays News thread, but happy to have a discussion here on the Australian dimension.

To me the anger we saw at these protests says more about the local situation of a specific Australian muslim community that it does about international events. I don't think its a coincidence that the only protests we saw were in Sydney. The Sydney muslim population is dominated by Lebanese families that fled the civil war in the late 1970s. The current generation descends from a population that was overwhelmingly unskilled, impoverished and arrived to Australia with nothng, and received little government assistance. The second generation have barely improved. Owing to their socio-economic disadvantage, this Lebanese population (by far the largest muslim group in Sydney) has been prominent in Sydney's gang violence and ethnic crime. This is what fueled the moral panic over the gang rape trials, leading to a rise in islamophobia - especially after 9/11 - and it all came to a head in the Cronulla riots in 2005. The violence we saw at the protests is just a continuation of this same anger.

[Swagman]

ri·ot (rt)
n.
1. A wild or turbulent disturbance created by a large number of people.
2. Law A violent disturbance of the public peace by three or more persons assembled for a common purpose.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/riot

violence does not equal riot.

Apparently when it is perpetrated by 3 or more persons assembled for a common purpose it is. [three's a crowd it seems... ]

By definition

- protest in Melbourne by CFMEU members last month = R I O T

- The protest at that restaurant in Canberra on Australia day = R I O T

- The tantrum by Islamic Australians in Sydney the other day = R I O T

Violence need not be physical. Verbal threats, abuse and intimidation could be examples of violence. The Union rentacrowd is a master of it.

[Notorious B.i.G.]

You are right and wrong at the same time Swagman.
Perhaps a wider search then a free online dictionary...
NSW Crime Act states that:

(1) Where 12 or more persons who are present together use or threaten unlawful violence for a common purpose and the conduct of them (taken together) is such as would cause a person of reasonable firmness present at the scene to fear for his or her personal safety, each of the persons using unlawful violence for the common purpose is guilty of riot and liable to imprisonment for 15 years.
(2) It is immaterial whether or not the 12 or more persons use or threaten unlawful violence simultaneously.
(3) The common purpose may be inferred from conduct.
(4) No person of reasonable firmness need actually be, or be likely to be, present at the scene.
(5) Riot may be committed in private as well as in public places.

So it does not have to be physical violence, but can be the threat of violence. But verbal abuse, not so much.
Otherwise, under your definition Swaggers; if 3 people get together and wax lyrical about putting Gillard in a Chaff bag and letting he drown out at sea would be considered a riot.

[Swagman]

under your definition Swaggers; if 3 people get together and wax lyrical about putting Gillard in a Chaff bag and letting he drown out at sea would be considered a riot.

..........no that would be a 2GB radio show....

[Notorious B.i.G.]

Well Jones is in trouble for inciting racial hatred. So no surprise 2GB incites riots.

[foxdemon]

Ms Gillard said. "There is never any excuse for violent behaviour."

So, umm, the state revokes it's right (on which it claims a monopoly) to violence?

Meanwhile Barry O'Farrell told Sky News: "What we saw yesterday was the unacceptable face of multiculturalism,"

Barry might elaborate on that comment. I can't see what multiculturalism has to do with the matter.

Federal Opposition Leader Tony Abbott said yesterday's ugliness did not fairly reflect the Islamic people of Australia.

Hey, I agree with this comment. Now is a good time for Australians to reflect on the meaning of collective punishment and why it is unjust.

But then he says this:

Mr Abbott said newcomers to Australia were not expected to surrender their heritage but were expected to surrender their hatreds.

What imported hatred is relevant here? Now if we were talking about some ethnic rivally from a distant land, say Coats beating up Serbs, then such a comment would seem appropriate. I don't understand what Tony is talking about here.


I think Barnaby's comments deserve a whole thread to themselves, so I will past on them this time.

About 300 police in riot gear and on horseback chased the rally, numbering 100, east of Hyde Park and down William St, leaving traffic at a standstill.

What was that Julia said about violence?


Seems to me to be one big over reaction.

[GandalfTheGrey]

What imported hatred is relevant here? Now if we were talking about some ethnic rivally from a distant land, say Coats beating up Serbs, then such a comment would seem appropriate. I don't understand what Tony is talking about here.

Thats a very good point fox. We just grow used to these sorts of 'all-purpose' populist comments related to immigrants and multiculturalism - that it seems everyone, including Abbott himself, didn't stop to think about its relevance to this particular situation. For one thing, these people are overwhelmingly *NOT* newcomers, but are born and bred in Australia. Also, as I alluded to in my first post, the hatred is not imported, the hatred stems from the socio-economic problems faced by this group that came about *AFTER* their parents and grandparents arrived in Sydney.