[neopagan]

From the BBC:

The (Australian)prime minister, who ousted Julia Gillard as Labor Party leader amid dismal polling figures last month, made the announcement in Brisbane flanked by the PNG Prime Minister Peter O'Neill.
"From now on, any asylum-seeker who arrives in Australia (waters)by boat will have no chance of being settled in Australia as a refugee," Mr Rudd said.
• 2010: 134 boats carrying 6,535 passengers
• 2011: 69 boats, carrying 4,565 passengers
• 2012: 278 boats carrying 17,202 passengers
• 2013 (figures up to 16 July): 218 boats carrying 15,182 passengers
Figures from Australia's Department of Immigration; passenger numbers exclude crew.
Under the agreement, new arrivals will be sent to PNG for assessment and settled there if found to be a refugee.
To accommodate the new arrivals, an offshore processing centre in PNG's Manus Island will be significantly expanded to hold up to 3,000 people.
No cap has been placed on the number of people Australia can send to PNG, Mr Rudd said.
"The new arrangements will allow Australia to help more people who are genuinely in need and help prevent people smugglers from abusing our system."
The rules would apply to all those arriving in Australia by boat from today, Immigration Minister Tony Burke said.
In return, Australia is to channel aid to PNG, including to a major regional hospital and the university sector.
Boat arrivals have soared in the past 18 months, with most asylum seekers coming from Iraq, Iran, Sri Lanka and Afghanistan.


Please note that these people have come through Indonesia, they are primarily Muslim and so is Indonesia. So where is all this Muslim brotherhood we hear all about? The Indos don't want to have anything to do with them, yet they the Indos harbour fanatics who kill anyone who is not Muslim. As for the Sri Lankans, they are primarily Tamil, an ethnic group who murdered people on the streets of Colombo and swore to fight to the death. Big words. The problem with this turn of events is that Papua-New Guinea does not need to establish a Muslim enclave with these people within its own territory. It already has Muslims on its Western border. Australia should stand firm and send Muslims back to Indonesia. If that means war with Indonesia, go for it.

[Captain Sam]

Australia and Indonesia aren't going to go to war with one another. "The War of Refugee Processing".

Even countries like Sweden only take in people claiming refugee status from war-torn countries like Iraq and Afghanistan. Indonesia is not a war-torn nation, it's just poor. They're not refugees, they're illegal immigrants.

[neopagan]

Sam, you are 100 % right. Australia is not going to war with Indonesia. That is because we too busy watching the football on TV. But the fact of the matter is when Indonesia says no, and we say sorry. Its embarrassing.

[Maas]

Indonesia is not a war-torn nation, it's just poor. They're not refugees, they're illegal immigrants.

Loads of people who find a better life. But Papua and Timor are parts of indonesia with ethnic violence every now and than (government vs minorities), and you got religious violence as well.

[layman]

Australia should focus on pinching educated europeans rather than these third world beggers.

They can afford to be picky.

[foxdemon]

Sam, you are 100 % right. Australia is not going to war with Indonesia. That is because we too busy watching the football on TV. But the fact of the matter is when Indonesia says no, and we say sorry. Its embarrassing.

Actually, Indonesia seems to be saying 'yes' to everything we ask at the moment.

I suspect this is because they are trying to make Labor look good as the alternative to Labor is undesirable for Indonesia. In fact, the alternative to Labor is undesirable from the point of view of many nations in our region since Rudd's foreign policy will be more constructive for the region.

Rudd might be a tool, but he will be easier for the region to cope with than the 'mad monk' in charge of the Liberal party.

[unbalanced zealot]

Australia and Indonesia aren't going to go to war with one another. "The War of Refugee Processing".

Good point and good way of putting it.

Indonesia has made it more difficult for Iranians to get entry visas and this method of control extended to other countries could be an important factor.

I'm really not sure what to think about Rudd's new dramatic plan. Essentially, Canberra has fucked up the PNG scenario so far as only Canberra people can. And as someone who has been to PNG I know it is not an easy place to live in.

[Otebo]

Australia should focus on pinching educated europeans rather than these third world beggers.

They can afford to be picky.

They should never have abandoned the White Australia policy.

[ThirdTerm]

Julia Gillard should be credited with coming up with the PNG solution and she made a visit to Papua New Guinea in May to clinch the asylum deal. PNG is the second largest recipient of Australian aid and hosting a permanent asylum-seeker detention centre on Manus Island would further strengthen the bilateral relationships between the two countries. The Papuans and Aboriginal Australians are genetic cousins and Mark Stoneking of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Germany found Denisovan DNA in modern humans living in east Indonesia, Polynesia, Australia and Papua New Guinea. Kevin Rudd got into trouble as a Prime Minister by being too soft on immigration and he was subsequently ousted by Gillard in 2010. His tougher asylum policy, which denies any boat people refugee status, would deter future illegal immigrants from Indonesia and this is also a good electoral strategy for the general election.

Figure S2 shows an admixture graph that proposes that the Mamanwa, New Guineans, and Australians descend from a common ancestral population; the Mamanwa split first and the New Guinean and Australian ancestors split later. This is an excellent fit to the data in the sense that only one of 91 f statistics is more than three standard errors from zero (|Z| = 3.4). An interesting feature of this admixture graph is that it specifies an additional admixture event, after the Mamanwa lineage separated, into the ancestors of Australians and New Guineans that contributed about half of their ancestry and involved a population without Denisova admixture. The estimated proportion of Neandertal ancestry in all non-Africans from the admixture graph fitting in Figure 3, at 1.3%, is at the low end of the 1%–4% previously estimated from sequencing data.18 Similarly, we infer a proportion of Denisova ancestry in New Guineans of 3.5% = 6.6% × 53%, which is lower than the 4%–6% previously estimated based on sequencing data but not significantly so when one takes into account the standard errors quoted in that study.12
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3188841/

[Akuma]

I saw the australians now have concentration camps on Nauru and other islands? Thats really disgusting. What are australians so scared about? Seeing their own fate while looking at the poverty of the aboriginal people?

I really wonder how deep australians want sink. Evry time you think the racism there has reached a new low they achieve to go even deeper.

[colliric]

I saw the australians now have concentration camps on Nauru and other islands? Thats really disgusting. What are australians so scared about? Seeing their own fate while looking at the poverty of the aboriginal people?

I really wonder how deep australians want sink. Evry time you think the racism there has reached a new low they achieve to go even deeper.

They're not concentration camps, they are offshore processing centres.

[Akuma]

No matter how you name it, its concentration camps.

[neopagan]

Evry time you think the racism there has reached a new low they achieve to go even deeper.

Unlike Japan, which has no racism at all. And a totally open immigration policy.

The town I live in has a very cosmopolitan population. Apart from the Anglo-Irish there are a lot of Italians, Thai, Filipino, Chinese, Samoan, Fijian, Papuan etc. They all seem to get along pretty well. There are quite a few Japanese residents. They do not seem to be the victims of racism. They like it here. Maybe you should communicate with the Japanese in Australia and get a more accurate picture.

[colliric]

... And the fact is, the Japanese millitary literally attempted to invade Australia. And technically did(Papua New Guinea was an Australian Territory).

There are natural deepseeded issues that exist between older Australians and the Japanese Government in particular.

It's not racism to be critical of the actions of a previous Japanese administration/army, and percieve that "history may be repeating itself in some disturbing ways" in the modern country, and thus treat "strong/proud" Japanese patriots with some level of suspicion.

[neopagan]

I have to say my experience with the Japanese in Australia is refreshingly positive. They are cheerful, hardworking, and polite. They don't puke in the gutter outside pubs, and they don't lay rubber at intersections like my countrymen.

[GandalfTheGrey]

yet they the Indos harbour fanatics who kill anyone who is not Muslim.

Evidence?

Rudd's PNG solution is the first step towards creating a regional solution. It is a rather drastic stop-gap measure implemented in order to stop the drownings at sea. I don't believe the long term implementation of this solution will include a permanent freeze on granting asylum to Australia. Given the severity of the drownings crisis, I am not as opposed to the PNG solution as I once would have been. As long as Rudd is committed to turning this into a viable long term regional solution - which I believe he is. This is in stark contrast to Tony Abbott's "turn the boats back and wash our hands of the problem" strategy.

[ThirdTerm]

... And the fact is, the Japanese millitary literally attempted to invade Australia. And technically did(Papua New Guinea was an Australian Territory).

Australia controlled the Trust Territory of New Guinea at the time and invading the eastern half of the island of New Guinea was a strategic mistake made by Imperial Japan, which suffered one of the worst defeats in the early phase of the Pacific campaign. West Papua was attached to the Dutch East Indies and Imperial Japan could take over the western half in cooperation with the Indonesian ruling classes with the promise of Indonesia's independence from Dutch colonialism. But local Papuans in the eastern half of New Guinea assisted Australian troops and the Japanese were driven back after bitter battles known as the Kokoda Trail campaign.

[youtube]S9Sg4H9MmlE[/youtube]

[AVT]

Evidence?

Rudd's PNG solution is the first step towards creating a regional solution. It is a rather drastic stop-gap measure implemented in order to stop the drownings at sea. I don't believe the long term implementation of this solution will include a permanent freeze on granting asylum to Australia. Given the severity of the drownings crisis, I am not as opposed to the PNG solution as I once would have been. As long as Rudd is committed to turning this into a viable long term regional solution - which I believe he is. This is in stark contrast to Tony Abbott's "turn the boats back and wash our hands of the problem" strategy.

Gandalf you have certainly changed your tune, if this measure was introduced by the coalition I can't help but think you would be jumping up and down to denounce how inhumane it is.

The PNG deal is essentially a short to medium term circuit breaker to stop the boats by calling the asylum seekers bluff, it is essentially offering protection and settlement...... Just not in Australia, a rich western country with a generous welfare system, instead they are sending them to PNG. Real refugees that are in fear for their lives will take the PNG option as it is better than death, those that are only coming here for economic reasons will go home.

Either way the boats should stop, and I imagine the coalition will take up the deal and possibly expand on it. If it works I would not be surprised if the EU doesn't find some shit hole in africa where they could rinse and repeat.

[GandalfTheGrey]

Gandalf you have certainly changed your tune, if this measure was introduced by the coalition I can't help but think you would be jumping up and down to denounce how inhumane it is.

Its not really consistent with the coalition's whole position on the issue though. At least labor have continuously emphasised the importance of getting a regional solution together - both with this and the Malaysia solution, whereas the coalition have literally just said all along "why do we need a regional solution, when we can just reintroduce Howard's (unilateral) pacific solution?

You are absolutely right that it is a stop-gap measure - and rightly so. A stop-gap measure is precisely what is needed to effect an immediate freeze on boats - as long as it is a precursor of a more permanent regional solution that includes resettlement options to Australia - which can be negotiated and planned multilaterally in a cool and calm manner after the dust settles. At the very least Rudd should be commended for arranging this bilaterally with the PNG government, unlike Abbott's suite of proposals that are entirely unilateral and in the case of turning back the boats, are directly opposed by the Indonesian government.

[pugsville]

personally bribing/forcing one of poor neighbours to accept people we don't want, just does not strike me as ethical behaviour.
The major parties are competing in a policy of being harsh on this people. I'm pretty uncomfortable with this.

The definition of Refugee is board and depends on your values and where you stand, the line between those fleeing real persecution and those seeking a better economic life is rather blurry at best. There is a real problem (it isnt just created by the hysteria of the major parties and the press, though I don't think it helps).

Simply put their are plenty of real refugees and vast numbers of those who will rick a lot to improve their situation and Australia is pretty desirable compared with much of the world.

There should be a real limit of how many we accept. We should process the people quickly and treat them well. But what to do with those in excess of reasonable numbers? I dont have a solution, forcible repatriation is pretty much very hard to work, (dumping people somewhere is pretty hard work and authorities there generally are not going to help, why should they take our 'rejects' (for what of a better term) ) . Indefinite detention seems harsh, expensive and unworkable. Creating a deterent by shipping them off to places around the region we bribe to take them hardly seems workable in the long run.