[neopagan]

Here is why I will never again vote for the Australian Labor Party although I have in the past. I am very concerned about environmental issues and have voted upon them, but in recent years I had become aware of the never ending flow of illegal aliens arriving on our door step without visas. These people know that we offer asylum for the persecuted. Coming from any third world country, it is pretty easy to make that claim. In fact half the world's population could apply for asylum in Australia. Liberal and left wing journalists and politicians assailed anyone who believed this was an affront to out sovereignty by calling us RACISTS. This criticism came from the Greens and directly from the Labor Party. But seeing they were going to lose the election, the Labor Party did a complete about face. Now they scramble to find a way to appear they are doing something to stop the boats. Has any apology been offered to those who they called RACIST? Of course not.

[Akuma]

Can you show me any visa your ancestors had when entering australia? I heared most immigrants come from Iran?

Maybe the iranian government should just send convicted criminals to Australia and use it as prison colony. That would be the ightful way.

[jessupjonesjnr87]

Theirs plenty of room left in Oz. There was even more before the Europeans arrived. Leave the immigrants in and beg the aborigines or forgiveness.

[foxdemon]

Theirs plenty of room left in Oz. There was even more before the Europeans arrived. Leave the immigrants in and beg the aborigines or forgiveness.

Clearly you know nothing about Australian politics, Jess. The Aboriginals are strongly against immigration but they get no say. It is a very strange thing to put immigrants and aboriginals together like that.

Maybe the iranian government should just send convicted criminals to Australia and use it as prison colony. That would be the ightful way.

The convicts who were sent out in the 19th century included many Irish who had been resisting the British occupation of Ireland. So they weren't criminals but rather political prisoners. Perhaps Jessupjones would have a bit more sympathy for his long lost relatives after he learns a bit more about Australian history?

Has any apology been offered to those who they called RACIST? Of course not.

Why do you whinge so much about people calling you racist? Perhaps you ought be more confident and ignore people who are having a go at you?

[MadMonk]

A Japanese citizen not so subtly mocking an Australian citizen over their countries immigration policy? My, what has the world come to?

That being said, Australia does have a reputation among the developed world and I can imagine how the debates regarding the subject goes. I look at myself as a political realist and a filosofical idealist on the contraire from political idealists whom I find damages our cause for a better world on a much greater scale than their opposition. I don't expect better from the nationalists/fascists, I expect better from "our" side.

[jessupjonesjnr87]

Of course their against immigration foxdome, look what happened the last time foreigners came to their lands. They were being legally hunted with rifles into the 1920's.

[foxdemon]

^ reputation? You mean the one about Australians being a bunch of 'English good old boys'?

And what is "filosofical"?



Anyway, I don't see how any of this has much to do with the election. Perhaps it would be better to focus on issues, such as the growing cost of the health system. If we don't address rising costs in health care, particularly the cost of running hospitals, we will see health care taking up half of all government spending within a decade or two. This is something we need to address over the next few years.


Other issues: energy. We were importing only 7% of our oil needs 10 years ago. Now we need to import almost 40% of our oil. Due to the cost of the carbon tax on coal, no new investment is going into coal fired power plants. Insufficent gas fired plants have been built. We can expect serious brown outs in Qld in the next year or so and the same in NSW and Vic a year or two later. We need an energy policy to deal with this.


The China resource boom is coming to an end. The Australian economy has become lope sided over recent years toward resource extraction. How can we return to a more diversified economy?


So there are some issues that Australians need to face up to. Whinging about Asylum seekers and saving whales is all well and good but neither is going to pay the bills.


Which party has the best policies to deal with Australia's economic and structural problems?

[neopagan]

This has everything to do with the election. It was the first policy change of Rudd's administration and it was changed because the Labor Party knew the majority of people would vote against them for that reason alone.

Why do I whinge? Because I am not pleased about being called a racist when I want to keep the flood of the 3rd world out of Australia. The fact that we have a lot of room is one thing I like, but the boats are crammed with people who want our social services and the loopholes in our legal system, not our space.

I am totally in favor of immigration from legal applications. Most especially from the Pacific Islands where they really have space problems and rising sea-levels that threaten their islands. I am also against Muslim immigration which tends to be the content of the boats. That is not Racism, it is anti-religion. I don't care about race but we have enough religious fanatics of our own.

[foxdemon]

^umm, so the bit about energy. We are becoming dependent on oil importation. What do you suggest we do about oil?


Also what off the power station issue. Should we build more power stations or cut back on electricity?

[neopagan]

Dirty energy is one of the big problems facing humanity. Sources of "renewable" energy should by a top priority. In California private enterprise ( or should I say Entrepreneurship? ) is building the world's largest solar array. Cost? a paltry $300 million. Why is Australia not doing something like that? We have more consistent sunshine than California. Closer to the equator too. I am not against nuclear energy either. But safer ways of dealing with the waste should be another priority for investigation.

[pugsville]

because the liberal party, the mining lobby, populist media and right wing commentators have run a viscous media ca,campaign of hysteria, because many of the people have become totally worked up and 'enraged' about completely minor and focuses on stuff like this boat people hysteria.

[neopagan]

You may see it as hysteria, the subject is unimportant to you, but I don't think you have considered just how many people in the third world qualify as asylum seekers; a bogus justification for allowing them to stay invented by the well paid no-it-all types at the UN. There was never any consultation with the electorate when some witless bureaucrat signed away our sovereignty.

[foxdemon]

Dirty energy is one of the big problems facing humanity. Sources of "renewable" energy should by a top priority. In California private enterprise ( or should I say Entrepreneurship? ) is building the world's largest solar array. Cost? a paltry $300 million. Why is Australia not doing something like that? We have more consistent sunshine than California. Closer to the equator too. I am not against nuclear energy either. But safer ways of dealing with the waste should be another priority for investigation.

Actually there are renewable electricity generation projects in Australia. They are of the geo-thermal type rather than solar. Geo-thermal provides base load power, solar only provides peak. These projects are at the test program stage but they are generating power already. Geo-Science Australia has the regulatory framework in place, start up companies are listed on the ASX. This will be 'Thunder Birds are go' in the next few years.


link

link

link


The two main problems are investment capital for large scale exploitation and the extent of transmission lines required to bring the power from central Australia to the market on the east coast.

[Capitalist]

Dirty energy is one of the big problems facing humanity. Sources of "renewable" energy should by a top priority. In California private enterprise ( or should I say Entrepreneurship? ) is building the world's largest solar array. Cost? a paltry $300 million. Why is Australia not doing something like that? We have more consistent sunshine than California. Closer to the equator too. I am not against nuclear energy either. But safer ways of dealing with the waste should be another priority for investigation.

Which project in California are you referring to? I did a quick search on Google and there's a large solar array project in California that will cost over $2 billion.

In terms of what Australia is doing:

http://kogansolarboost.com.au/

[AFAIK]

If you're concerned about the number of asylum seekers arriving in Oz perhaps you should pressure the govt to stop collaborating in wars of aggression with the USA. Or the govt could provide charter flights. Given the amount of money people smugglers make the flights could be very profitable.

I am saddened and bemused to see that one of the biggest election issues is who can be a bigger arsehole to the boat people.

[pugsville]

Why dont the people who arrive by aircraft are not subject to the exact same treatment? Rounded up and sent to camps in third world countries.

Until the proponents of the harsh treatment of boat arrivals become consistent it's hard not to see they views as not being race based.

[MadMonk]

With that example brings another point into the light; it is as much about classism as it is about racism. While they are linked, one should recognize the proponents which drives each of them. I'm certain that poor white Eastern Europeans arriving on boats would get similar harsh treatment, to which extent would depend on a number of factors such as the number of arrivals, earlier interaction with the arrivals communities etc.

[foxdemon]

I don't think this thread is going to be about the Australian election. Rather the title ought to be changed to the immigration policy of Australia.

If you're concerned about the number of asylum seekers arriving in Oz perhaps you should pressure the govt to stop collaborating in wars of aggression with the USA.

How has the USA's wars of aggression caused boat people to arrived from Sri Lanka? I can't see how such a casual relationship could be drawn with Iranian boat people (at least not yet). It does not seem to be the case that America's wars of aggression are a major driving force behind boat people.

Or the govt could provide charter flights. Given the amount of money people smugglers make the flights could be very profitable.

Actually this already happens. The government has a quote of 20,000 people per year for humanitarian immigration. People from places such as Sudan and Somali are flown in. Not at a profit though.

Australia is one of 20 nations that has taken in a large number of refugees over the last 70 years. Some of them come from Cambodia and Vietnam. I think it would be fitting for you to acknowledge the generosity of the Australian nation.

I am saddened and bemused to see that one of the biggest election issues is who can be a bigger arsehole to the boat people.

Yes, it is sad. However there is a lot of fraud in relation to asylum seeking and refugee status. Many arrive by plane and then claim asylum. Since they are on Australian territory, they can appeal decisions finding their claim to be false indefinitely. The cost is at the government's expense. At present the boat arrivals alone are threatening to exceed the government's annual quote of humanitarian immigrates. I think it is appropriate that they take some measures to ensure that their system is respected.

Why dont the people who arrive by aircraft are not subject to the exact same treatment? Rounded up and sent to camps in third world countries.

They are sent to camps once detained. As mentioned above, anyone claim asylum status can appeal indefinitely. They don't go to camps while appealing their status. Many illegal immigrants who over stay visas are sent home without going to camps, given their have a passport and country to go to.

Until the proponents of the harsh treatment of boat arrivals become consistent it's hard not to see they views as not being race based.

People of European decent have been locked up.

[AFAIK]

How has the USA's wars of aggression caused boat people to arrived from Sri Lanka? I can't see how such a casual relationship could be drawn with Iranian boat people (at least not yet). It does not seem to be the case that America's wars of aggression are a major driving force behind boat people.

According to the guardian the majority of boat arrivals are from Afghanistan and Iran.


http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablo ... um-seekers

Or the govt could provide charter flights. Given the amount of money people smugglers make the flights could be very profitable.

Actually this already happens. The government has a quote of 20,000 people per year for humanitarian immigration. People from places such as Sudan and Somali are flown in. Not at a profit though.

Australia is one of 20 nations that has taken in a large number of refugees over the last 70 years. Some of them come from Cambodia and Vietnam. I think it would be fitting for you to acknowledge the generosity of the Australian nation.

The thread was focused on boat arrivals so I overlooked other methods. We should acknowledge Australian efforts to provide asylum to others. This also begs the question as to why this system cannot be expanded. Perhaps Australia could explore ways to share the burden of relocating refugees with other nations. The structure of the Malaysia solution proposal suggests that numbers aren't Australia's biggest concern.

[pugsville]

during the 1970s the last time boat arrivals were in large numbers it was handled and there was a bipartisan policy it it by and large was not a political issue. With no real difference between the major parties why can it not be handled similarly without the media driven hysteria.

The Coalition is also greeting the news of very low interest rates as a bad sign of the economy being weak. They have made much hay over the years with a simplistic slogan of labour = high rates = bad management, now low rates = bad management. They have repeated claimed both Howard and Abbot that "interest rates would ALWAYS be lower under a coalition government" so are they saying if we had a coalition government the interest rates would be even lower and the economy weaker? Their sound bite slogan , has been shown up for the pile of fetid dingo kidneys that it always was, the debate about the economy shown be a little more nuanced than a cheap slogan. (hmm "stop the boats" it does seem to be their style!) They have effectively said that these recent low interest rates are bad, and with their leadership we would not have them, and therefore there "interest rates would ALWAYS be lower under a coalition government" has been proven wrong. Are they going to say they were wrong?