Australia plan to ban cash purchases over $10,000 looks like it may soon become law - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15071034
This is what it looks like when a government begins to head towards authoritarianism.

Plan to ban cash purchases over $10,000 set to become law as Senate inquiry gives thumbs up

The Currency (Restrictions on the Use of Cash) Bill 2019 passed the House of Representatives last year, but was referred to a Senate inquiry for further debate.The Senate committee recommended that the bill be passed contingent upon several changes, including that the start date is extended to give businesses sufficient time to comply, and that the Federal Government review the penalty provisions to ensure they are not "overly harsh".

The law was due to take hold on January 1, but Treasurer Josh Frydenberg has given the Senate committee an undertaking that the law will not be applied retrospectively.

The bill has caused a stir among the Liberal Party, with some members arguing it is antithetical to the party's values.

The inquiry received 2,659 submissions by early December, with the majority of submissions opposing the bill, and many arguing the Government should not interfere with their legal right to spend cash how they wish.

But the Federal Government has consistently argued the measure is intended to fight the black economy, by stamping out tax evasion, money laundering and other crimes.

Some critics are complaining this could be the start of the government banning cash purchases altogether, where cash payment limit might eventually be reduced below the proposed legislated amount of $10,000.

The committee also dismissed concerns raised about the bill's impact on privacy and civil liberties, noting, "this must be balanced against the concerns raised by other stakeholders who described the negative impacts of criminal activity and tax evasion".​

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-28/ ... s/12011488


The government wants to be able to track all big purchases and make them have to go through a bank, and severely punish all those who do not comply and try to pay cash for big purchases.

also from the article:

"By criminalising the use of legal tender … this government is blithe to the fundamental freedoms provided by hard currency, and is instead laying down a path towards surveillance capitalism and negative interest rates," Senator Whish-Wilson said.

That's another issue. One of the other points that conservative critics complain about is that this this is all part of a plan that will allow government to have negative interest rates. That is, where people actually have to pay a percentage of money to keep their money in the bank. Many policymakers want the option of being able to institute negative interest rates to stimulate the economy, but of course once interest rates go below zero percent it creates a lot of complications.

Huge huge problem with civil liberties here.
I honestly can't fathom why the critics are focusing so much on the worry of future potential for negative interest rates. Not that that's not a legitimate worry, but that worry seems to pale in comparison to the other concerns.
Seems like a classic cases of, on the conservative side, wealthy elites caring more about their money and wealth than individual liberties.
In my opinion, the politicians who aren't opposing this don't deserve to be called "Liberal".
#15071166
ness31 wrote:https://www.austrac.gov.au/business/how-comply-guidance-and-resources/reporting/cash-transactions-over-10000-ttr

It already exists. It’s just that the dumbarses in charge these days don’t know their shit.

The previous law that is in place (which you refer to) applies only to banks and certain other service industries (which include car dealerships, financial services, gold/silver bullion, digital currency, and gambling).

This would be a vast expansion of those reporting requirements, and now they would criminalize the individual making the purchase.
#15071173
This was posted by one person commenting on this story in another forum:

First they require a form.

Then they require a form that must be approved.

Then they deny approval.

Then...you're at the mercy of the electronic algorithm bureaucracy, able to be turned of, for fair reason or foul, at the flick of a switch and the whim of a bureaucrat.

Your movements will thus be recorded. EVERY movement. Every purchase you make - what food you eat, what entertainment. Where you are. All electronically filed, to be pulled up with a few keystrokes, when you become inconvenient to the likes of Lisa Page and Peter Strozk and John Brennan.

MOREOVER. No cash permitted, means "Negative Interest" can be charged by banks. This is part of their plans to continue manipulating the purportedly-free capital markets. Interest rates have hovered near zero for a decade, and haven't done what the Masters Of The Universe wanted them to. So, of course they want MOAR - like true Keynesians, they never, ever admit their god Keynes was WRONG.

So, NEGATIVE interest, CHARGES savers, PAYS borrowers. To incentivize immediate, complete, spending, and then borrowing on credit to spend moar. Savings be damned - banks with borrowers, can go to the Central Bank to get moar printed-up fiat to lend out.

Trouble is, those obstinate Deplorables just put money in the cookie jar, to avoid Negative Interest. Hey, that messes up the PLANS! We have to MAKE it work! So we'll BAN CASH!

These people are full-on insane.

another comment:

Carrot and stick. They're being pressured to "encourage" all these "electronic transactions" (by the banks, who're being encouraged by the Federal Reserve) to get the sheeple conditioned to it.

Soon comes the stick. Large bills removed; then, low limits on cash; then, cash disallowed at retail outlets, and finally, no cash at all. THEN, comes the negative rates. And our whole economy is turned on its head, punishing thrift, encouraging reckless debt.


Look at China with their 'social credit score' attached to each citizen.
Say something the party does not like? No money for you. No travel for you. At the touch of a button. Not a damn thing you ca do about it.
That's the future a 'cashless society' will bring.
#15071269
Robert Urbanek wrote:Aside from drug dealers, what kind of idiot carries around $10,000 or more in cash, making themselves an easy mark for robbers?

Are you just playing devil's advocate, or do you actually believe it's fine and normal for government to throw people into prison because they paid $10,000 in paper money for something and didn't route the money through a financial institution?

I believe these sort of laws are incremental steps towards normalizing this type of thing. One law gets passed, the people start getting used to that, and then somewhere down the line another law gets passed, and people aren't that alarmed because it's similar to the first one.

Pretty soon no one will be allowed to buy anything with paper money, and owning more than $10,000 in paper money will be illegal. People will be forced to have their money in financial institutions, and will be forced to pay for the privilege of doing so, when the government decides to institute "negative interest rates".
And by that time, no one will see any of this as abnormal. They will have been already gradually eased into the idea over many years or decades.

You'd be just fine if a person wasn't allowed to buy an icecream cone without the government knowing about it, wouldn't you?
Specifics on the identity of the person buying it, at what time, at what place.
#15071271
Keeping in mind this particular political forum has a very Socialist-leaning membership, and nearly half the members are Communist, I shouldn't really have been that surprised that no one here is able to see any problem with this at all.

Come on, are there at least any Progressive Liberals in here? Leftists concerned with individual rights and civil liberties?

'cause right now, I'm hearing crickets.
#15071272
Robert Urbanek wrote:Aside from drug dealers, what kind of idiot carries around $10,000 or more in cash, making themselves an easy mark for robbers?


People who actually care more about security and know that "digital shit can be easily hacked and stolen in milliseconds, or your bank details could be sold by other criminals".

People who carry around $10000 in cash, don't advertise it. Robbers go for the tap that shit quick card more often these days.
#15071273
Robert Urbanek wrote:Aside from drug dealers, what kind of idiot carries around $10,000 or more in cash, making themselves an easy mark for robbers?

A lot of people who survived through the Great Depression.

I know a lot of my grandma's friends did crazy things like stuff cushions full of $100 notes, or fill an entire closet with silver coins. (or so she told me) And this was back in 1980.
Most of that generation is no longer still with us.

My grandma told me the story of one of the main big banks that had to put a permanent hold on depositors being able to take out their money, except for 10 percent of what was in the account. She told me she will forever be a customer of that bank, because they were the only one that gave depositors back 10 percent of their savings. The other main banks pretty much completely boarded up shop and wouldn't give their depositors anything. Being able to take out 10 percent of your money is a lot better than nothing.
#15071281
You can PLAN to do anything, but whether this ever goes into effect is a completely different thing. I do not think this will ever soon become law. It's the same as telling people what they can spend their money on, and that kind of law wouldn't take effect, either.
#15071286
Godstud wrote:You can PLAN to do anything, but whether this ever goes into effect is a completely different thing. I do not think this will ever soon become law. It's the same as telling people what they can spend their money on, and that kind of law wouldn't take effect, either.


Um yes it did:
https://www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/in ... debit-card

The government here thinks your welfare payments is still their money, even after they've given it to you.

Note: Pay no attention to the fact these "regions" all have larger Aboriginal populations, it's racist to point out we have to legally stop them buying liquor on our taxpayer funded dime.
#15071324
Godstud wrote:You can PLAN to do anything, but whether this ever goes into effect is a completely different thing. I do not think this will ever soon become law. It's the same as telling people what they can spend their money on, and that kind of law wouldn't take effect, either.

There are plenty of laws telling people what they can spend their money on. For exampl, you can't spend your money on illegal drugs or guns, despite the fact that it's your money and there are entrepreneurs out there more than willing to sell these things to you. In even the most right-wing society, there are limits to the free market.
#15071343
Godstud wrote:@Potemkin If those things weren't illegal, there wouldn't be laws against spending money on them. Not a good comparison.

Nevertheless, there are laws telling you what you can or cannot spend your money on. If the government wishes to add a few more laws to that list, and can drum up the necessary political support to do so, then what's the problem?
#15071398
Certainly, in the U.S. at least, keeping large amounts of cash at home may not be a good idea.

As the leader of the robbery crews, Castro would generate lists of robbery targets in various states around the county, specifically families of Asian and Indian ancestry, and then assign crews to carry out the armed robberies of these families within their homes.

“Their theory is that Asians and Indians don’t trust financial institutions in America, so they’re more apt to keep money and gold on hand,” said Detective Christopher Bradshaw of the Milton, Ga., police department


Source: https://asamnews.com/2019/10/29/leader-of-home-invasion-ring-targeting-asian-households-sentenced-to-37-years/

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