Refugees - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Political issues and parties in Australia.

Moderator: PoFo Asia & Australasia Mods

Forum rules: No one-line posts please.
By Thin Spirits
#45442
Ocker wrote:What are your opinions on 'boat people' and detention camps?


I lived and still live in the holidays in Whyalla, which is about 30 minutes away from Baxter.

I also get both sides of the propaganda war about the detainees and the detention centres, as my father works for the local Federal member for most of South Australia and my high school with its religious affiliation was pretty heavily against the detention centres and the Howard government.

Out of it all, I have desperately tried to form an opinion, but failed. I have a tendency to believe that the government is acting in our best interests, and to a degree I can sympathse with the idea that the people entering our country must be regulated, but at the same time people are suffering, to a degree as a result of this belief.

I have heard stories about 'boat people' who use the detention centres wrongly, who bring misery upon themselves for whatever reason, and others within the centre it is these people who are setting fore to buildings and property that costed the government and taxpayers millions of dollars.

One thing that i do know, and strongly believe is that the centres should be run by the government, not by a private company which treats the contract with no delicacy at all, and probably just serves to make things worse.

I also know that a lot of people who are protesting the detention centre and acting to get the free are a bunch of unreasonable nutters. (Most, not all).

Heres a small story of my personal experience with the Detainees and the system surrounding them...

I work for a regional paper, and at the time the centre was releasing detainees into our community for a program run by the catholic church. I got word of this through my school (some children detainees were held at the school) a couple of days prior and rang up the minister for immigration and requested to take some photo's of the refugees. I was granted permission by the government and I asked that it could be known to the Baxter employees that I was coming.
They said it was fine, they just requested that I blur the faces and dont get any names to protect the identity of the children. Which is fair enough considering their circumstances.

The children seemed pretty normal and healthy from what I could see. They were playing games and thoroughly enjoying their trip to our school.

When I rocked up to take a few simple photo's I was intersected by a guard, who had a fresh scar on his face who told me in no uncertain terms that i could not take any pictures. It seems he was told that I was coming, and he decided that it would be best if I didn't take photo's.
The reason given was that it could make the children cause trouble. he also requested that the article of their visit not to be written, simply because that if it was known in the community that detainees were visiting our community that members of the community would aoppose to this and their visits would end.

I felt pretty bullied, but left it alone. I found it strange that the guard could hold that control over me. When I got back to the office, I made a few more inquries and it turns out I could take photo's, the general manager at baxter told me that i had permission.... it seems that one guard took it upon himself to prevent me from taking photo's that I had full permission to take. So much for free press and all that bullshit. This is one of the reasons I'm opposed to the centre being privately run.

More so, I felt a little guilty for writing the story, because it went front page, without photo's under the editors guide. Quite a few members in the community were opposed and the visits were stopped. It seems by printing the story I pissed off both the Baxter management and the detainee advocates. ironic, huh?

Anyway, I'd like to hear what other people have to say.
By Efrem Da King
#45619
......


Well I can see were both sides come from but I am against the govs policy. You must have border patrol and you must put the people somewhere, but a place like jail just isn't the answer, maybe a place where it is just like beds and a meal but they are allowed to go about as normal during the day as they are checked out, the current system doesn't work, but the opposition to it discredit them selves by saying they should all be able to go "free." And every one who comes can just join the population, the fact is australia couldn't cope with the influx of people that would follow, the strain on our wealthfare system comes to mind. But you also have to keep in mind that terrorists are out their trying to blow us up, so we can't be too lax.
User avatar
By Yeddi
#45679
:eek: I...dis... di.... AGREE... with Efrem. :eh:

The Gov's policy is terrible, the oppositions solution is terrible.

We can't simply let who ever arrives on our doorstep in immediately. But hanging around in a prison for 3 years is disgusting and shaming.

It is a tough issue. Especially on the Refugees themselves, but that is NO excuse for burning property or attacking guards, that will do nothing but make the public believe that these people aren't ones we want in our country.

I have no solution, but i believe it is an issue that needs solving, and quickly.
By Thin Spirits
#45755
From what I understand the people in the centres are those that have been refused visa's and still refuse to return to any country they came from courtesy of the Aussie gov.

Apparently thats about 10% of the number that arrive. And our centres are still full.
By Efrem Da King
#46191
People from certain countries should be able too become citizens immediatrly. Such as Iran, and almost anywhere without free elections.
By Proctor
#46236
Efrem, would that include Vietnam? How fair their elections really are is always a tough one to call, and from what I understand the majority of boat people as they are called come from there.

After the first post of this thread, I was going to comment on how I thought it was grotesque, but you guys have shown me that I really don't understand the issue enough to make a statement as bold as that. But, it is a personal policy of mine to not oppose an action unless I can present a better alternative, and I'm afraid I can't. So, in the hope of keeping alive an interesting topic, what could be done to alleviate the situation?
By Thin Spirits
#46275
Proctor wrote:After the first post of this thread, I was going to comment on how I thought it was grotesque, but you guys have shown me that I really don't understand the issue enough to make a statement as bold as that. But, it is a personal policy of mine to not oppose an action unless I can present a better alternative, and I'm afraid I can't. So, in the hope of keeping alive an interesting topic, what could be done to alleviate the situation?


I agree completely. Its very easy to jump on the Human Rights bandwagon, i dont disagree, I just feel a context should be applied.
To be honest I'm not completely convinced by the systems present in other nations to deal with illegal immigrants.
Whats it like in New Zealand?
I heard that England uses pretty much an open door policy in dealing with refugees, where they are allowed to congregate in the community etc.
I've also heard of comparisons from this to the growth of small ethnic communities within prminent English cities which are destroying English solidarity.
*shrugs*

Then again we are an immigrant country. It would be pretty hypocritical of us (most Aussies are, or their parents are from overseas) to deny entry to other people.

As a comparison, though. My cousins husband has been waiting something like 5 years and has paid a *lot* of money to legally immigrant to Australia.
What right do we have to let illegal immigrants stay when legal immigrants find it difficult enough to enter Australia?

What can we do? Well i can tell you that the current government is just waiting for the fuss to blow over and then apply the same policy it has in the past. The simple truth is it works, and the majority of Australians dont want these people here (its just that the human rights advocates are noisier) and in a democracy a government cannot ignore that fact.

As a nation we have the right to deny people entry into our country and if these people dont want to go back to where they came from what the hell are we meant to do with them?
By CasX
#46633
Proctor wrote:it is a personal policy of mine to not oppose an action unless I can present a better alternative, and I'm afraid I can't. So, in the hope of keeping alive an interesting topic, what could be done to alleviate the situation?


The Australian government's way of handling it is wrong. But like many people have pointed out, it's a difficult situation and what is to be done?

As far as I know, the situation in New Zealand is better for some these kinds of reasons (I don't really have any facts mind):

- less refugees to NZ
- better funding for immigration services
- better housing and accomodation for immigrants
- quicker checking of immigrants' backgrounds
- government help in getting immigrants settled in, getting housing and finding employment if they are genuine

Plus, we all know how the Aus government has lied over things like boat people throwing their children into the water. In reality Australia is not being overrun with illegal immigrants who need to be locked up in bad conditions in the desert with little access to legal facilities and with little allowance for media coverage of their plight. Most are simply looking for a better life and hopefully a bit of help in achieving this. I don't know about asian immigrants to Australia, but in New Zealand most are very hard working but many still recieve very low incomes despite this.
By Thin Spirits
#46643
CasX wrote:The Australian government's way of handling it is wrong. But like many people have pointed out, it's a difficult situation and what is to be done?


Are you refferring to its violations of Human rights snactions signed as a member of the UN?
If so, it is a very difficult situation to work with.

CasX wrote:As far as I know, the situation in New Zealand is better for some these kinds of reasons (I don't really have any facts mind):

- less refugees to NZ
- better funding for immigration services
- better housing and accomodation for immigrants
- quicker checking of immigrants' backgrounds
- government help in getting immigrants settled in, getting housing and finding employment if they are genuine


I was wondering why it is that the NZ gov is able to check backgrounds faster? From what I know of the Australian governments problems
(And the gov has been known to be dodgy in the past; for political reasons not just because they're mean bastards)
The Australian government processes those who can prove who they are and have some legal documents of a sort; these people are put through the centres within a month and is about 80% of those applying for residency.
The other percent of people applying are difficult to process because they either got rid of their leagal documents or left them at home. Thus one of the main reason for the governments strict control over them. They dont know who they are.

CasX wrote:Plus, we all know how the Aus government has lied over things like boat people throwing their children into the water. In reality Australia is not being overrun with illegal immigrants who need to be locked up in bad conditions in the desert with little access to legal facilities and with little allowance for media coverage of their plight. Most are simply looking for a better life and hopefully a bit of help in achieving this. I don't know about asian immigrants to Australia, but in New Zealand most are very hard working but many still recieve very low incomes despite this.


You're right man, Most of my friends parents are immigrants from 1945-2000. They come from East Timor, Laos, Korea, Malaysia etc. And I dont know people who contribute to society more... they're great blokes and good friends, and their parents are hard working and have done it fair to raise children the way they have. Trully these people make much of what Australian society it is today, I wouldn't say that they recieve low incomes though as they earn the same amount as anyone else in their situation. Better in many cases simply because their work ethic is greater than someone who is ethnically Australian like yours trully (Beer is just too much of a vice).
Ironically, I've heard suggestions that the biggest opponents to illegal immigrants are the immigrants of old who have established themselves in Australian society and dont want the problems of home to follow them.
I'm not quite sure I believe this though.
User avatar
By Yeddi
#46645
Slightly off-topic but I was on the train yesturday and overheard a conversation about that hideous show called "Australian Idol" Anyway, the girl didn't think that one contestent should win because he looked asian and "Its not Asian Idol its Australian Idol" Anyway her friend explained that we're a multicultural society bleh blah... and she said "a person who looks more australian should win" her friend asked "What does an Australian look like then?" after some thought and hesitation she replied...




... "European" :lol:
User avatar
By unbalanced zealot
#47184
Yeddi wrote:Slightly off-topic but I was on the train yesturday and overheard a conversation about that hideous show called "Australian Idol" Anyway, the girl didn't think that one contestent should win because he looked asian and "Its not Asian Idol its Australian Idol" Anyway her friend explained that we're a multicultural society bleh blah... and she said "a person who looks more australian should win" her friend asked "What does an Australian look like then?" after some thought and hesitation she replied...




... "European" :lol:


Going off topic again - but it's a weird scenario writen above. The White
Australia Policy has been recinded at least since Whitlam - but the
mentality is quite imbedded within Australia. Perhaps this plays out
within the reasoning many have in relation to refugees.

It's interesting that the UK has non-European heritage players in their
national football and cricket teams at the moment.
Can't wait to see an Khan batting for Australia or a Nguyen kicking goals for Collingwood.
By Efrem Da King
#47203
Yeddi wrote:Slightly off-topic but I was on the train yesturday and overheard a conversation about that hideous show called "Australian Idol" Anyway, the girl didn't think that one contestent should win because he looked asian and "Its not Asian Idol its Australian Idol" Anyway her friend explained that we're a multicultural society bleh blah... and she said "a person who looks more australian should win" her friend asked "What does an Australian look like then?" after some thought and hesitation she replied...




... "European" :lol:




Wadda ya expect from a melb?? :p

You would never hear something like that in syndey, certainly not in my school, 9/10th of my class is non caucasian.

We often play soccer of say - Euros and Curries vs the rest. But its all in fun and is an easy way of making teams.

The Crimean Tatar people's steadfast struggle agai[…]

NOVA SCOTIA (New Scotland, 18th Century) No fu[…]

If people have that impression then they're just […]

^ this is the continuation of the pre-1948 confli[…]