[Bricktop]

Because the Happy Australia Day thread was being taken over by talk of the changing of the Australian flag, i would like to start a new thread for it alone.

So what are all your thoughts on the Australian flag. Should it be changed? If so, why so, if it shouldnt be changed, why shouldnt it be changed?

Remember to give backup to your arguments.

Drummond

[Bricktop]

Ok well firstly i should put forward what i believe.

I believe Australia deserves a flag without another nation's flag upon it. Why?

1. Because we are a free and progressive nation who have a unique style and culture unlike any other on earth. This should be represented by an appropriate flag. At this time, how can our unique culture be represented by the flag of the old mother country, and not one that is fully ours? It cannot. We need a flag without the Union Jack upon it.

2. How can you have pride in your nation when your national flag is mistaken for another nations? Even the Monarchist league of Australia cannot tell the differance between Australia's and New Zealand's flag. Do you think this should be so?

3. Generally the top left corner of a flag shows the 'owners' or people of the land. Great Britain does not own our land, Australia does, and although there are plenty of British illegal immigrants in Australia, that does not show them as the owners of this land. We, the Australian people own the land on which we live, and Australians come from all over the world, not just Great Britain.

Ok so my first points, and now for my design of what the Australian flag should be, or how i would like it.. (note for Efrem: I do NOT hate Australia or Tradition or the current Australian flag. In fact i like all the noted things, i believe though that things can always be improved)



The blue is of the unique sky in which Australians live under.
The red is of the unique land on which we live upon.
The yellow star of Federation is the sun in which we live under and what binds the original colonies together (note tradition being held here)
The southern cross is the guiding light for those Australians who are lost or have misplaced direction. Look to the cross, and find the way.

Drummond

[Dark Canuck]

Steve Irwin in his ball-hugging shorts, you know it's comming to your flag cousins. Or include that Barefoot Bushman guy, either way you've got dangerous animal handler niche going on so use it!

[Andrew]

Yes, I strongly believe that we should have a flag change in Australia because the current flag doesn't do justice to the nation, and is too outdated. While most other flags worldwide are also outdated (example, the Russian flag still has a colour in it that represents the Ukrainian territory which it it no longer occupies), our flag is yet a different story.

1) We have the Union Jack, which should definitely be removed as we are:

A) No longer part of the British Empire

B) Are an independant sovereign state and should not have foreigners mistake us as being British, but rather have them KNOW that we are Australians!

C) It contradicts and insults the other half of Australia which is NOT of British roots. The nation used to be a prime British-ethnic nation, but now in the modern cosmopolitan era, it does no justice to the millions of migrants from other parts of the world which now also mostly make up Australia.

D) It is not a unique flag by any means, as New Zealand has an EXTREMELY similar flag, and many other Commonwealth nations, mostly the Pacific Islands, have a similar layout.

E) We have our OWN culture, and by having the Union Jack in it, it only tells other people that our culture is an inferior one, and that we are pretty much a nation with British influence, not a nation with Australian culture - something that is false.

Andrew

[Bricktop]

E) We have our OWN culture, and by having the Union Jack in it, it only tells other people that our culture is an inferior one, and that we are pretty much a nation with British influence, not a nation with Australian culture - something that is false.

Well said Andrew. I agree entirely.

"The Australian Government therefore regards the Pacific struggle as primarily one in which the United States and Australia must have the fullest say in the direction of the democracies' fighting plan.

"Without any inhibitions of any kind, I make it quite clear that Australia looks to America, free of any pangs as to our traditional links or kinship with the United Kingdom."

- John Curtin, 27 December 1941.

From - http://john.curtin.edu.au/resources/bio ... tails.html

This was a defining moment when Australia, a tiny nation at the time, no longer looked to the old mother country, Great Britain for help, but asked for assistance from a new, forward thinking nation, The United States.

I must point out, no we are not a mini USA (although at some times it feels that way) but ties with Great Britain, although still strong, were severed primarily on this date over 60 years ago!

Drummond

[joe]

go the Current Australian Flag

[tragicclown]

Speaking of pacific island nations that are owned by someone other than britian who yet have union jacks in their flags...I wonder why it doesn't bother anyone in Hawaii.

[Bricktop]

interesting comment, but first of all, Hawaii is a State, and not it's own nation. IMO then the Flag as a national identity would not matter as much.
Also, i am sure there are some people in Hawaii who care.

Drummond

[tragicclown]

Hawaii has a Union Jack on the flag officially because the United Kingdom was the first country to recognize the Kingdom of Hawaii as an independent soverign state (which is a pretty dumb reason i think). It is as much of a nation as Scottland or Wales or England, it has its own culture and language, it is just not a nation-state.

[Bricktop]

Yes, but technically, Hawaii is a STATE of the US...not a Nation in it's own right, or am i wrong?

Drummond

[tragicclown]

Hawaii is legally a state, but it used to be an independent nation-state (the Kingdom of Hawaii), internationally recognized as such. It is now an equal, fully incorporated province of the United States, it is not a colony. But that doesn't change that there is still such a thing as the Hawaiian nation, and a Hawaiian nationality. They have their own language and history as a people. That is what a nation is, just as England is a nation but England has no legal technical status as an entity in the United Kingdom.

[Bricktop]

Fair enough, but sorry, what's your point about in the first place?

We'll get back to the Australian flag debate shall we?

*side note: noticing many threads go off track here at Pofo, some in Asia-Pacific is my fault - now trying to rectify that*

Drummond

[tragicclown]

If you took out the white stars, flipted the flag over, and centered the yellow star...it would be very cool.

[Yeddi]

the flag debate is a tough one, while i don't really like our current flag it's kinda grown on me. And with all of these modern monstrocities i've seen asw alternatives i'll keep it, Union Jack or no.

Haveing said that, Drummond.. that flag isn't too bad.. where'd you find it?

[unbalanced zealot]

Don't we need a flag that reflects our disposition as a nation
at the moment ?

But I'm not sure how we can actually represent - rampant property
speculation ... mindless reality TV watching ... mass
out-of-control commercialism ... etc , within a flag.

And when that new flag's past its use-by date - as a nation
we can vote for a new one by phone poll or SMS.

[Maxim Litvinov]

I vote we make our new flag - toilet paper. It is useful, and symbolises our disdain for authority and 'tall poppies', plus it will always bring the mystique of a flag raising ceremony down a notch or two. Like when a bog roll gets raised at an Olympics medal ceremony.

When I first decided to write that, I was kidding. But now I actually think that the idea's got something going for it.

Here's a funny "spot what's wrong with this picture" I just found:



A prize of three eek faces (:eek::eek::eek:) to the winner.

[Yeddi]

The bloody Kiwi flag not our own.

Idiots.

[unbalanced zealot]

When NZ invades Australia and rules with an iron fist.

We'll all have to live under that flag !

[Yeddi]

oh god don't start that again.. it was bad enough when it was efrem, but when its a country that has no air force [excluding transports]... come on.

[Bricktop]

Haveing said that, Drummond.. that flag isn't too bad.. where'd you find it?

I made it myself, in MS paint

Drummond