[Thunderhawk]

Children are property of the nation

viewtopic.php?p=13067343#p13067343

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I move that MP Vladimir be censured by parliament for this comment.
I request his party also censure him.

Furthermore, it is my opinion that a man holding such a view should NOT be allowed to run any ministry, especially not one as powerfull and influential as the Internal affairds. He should therefore be removed from the IA minstry position.

Signed:
Thunderhawk, MP, THP.






Furthermore, I request a bill be created and put to vote recognizing all humans as i) people and that ii) humans fundamentally can never be owned.

Signed:
Thunderhawk, MP, THP

[Zagadka]

Poorly worded, but I think the sentiment was that the nation has responsibility to create free and equal circumstances/opportunities for children, not that the parents don't have control.

I would strongly disapprove with a "state ownership" stance, but in most nations, the state does have the powers to enforce education and other standards.

[Doomhammer]

The GM should be reformed into a Constitutional Court and should deal with this sort of thing.

Furthermore, I request a bill be created and put to vote recognizing all humans as i) people and that ii) humans fundamentally can never be owned.

Signed:
Thunderhawk, MP, THP
Doomhammer, MP, THP

[Oxymoron]

LONG LIVE SPARTA

[Dr House]

Poorly worded, but I think the sentiment was that the nation has responsibility to create free and equal circumstances/opportunities for children, not that the parents don't have control.

Really? How do you draw that conclusion from the very concise statement "children are the property of the state"?

[Zyx]

Censuring the majority party, let alone a minister of said party, is unfounded.

Perhaps with ten signatures, one would consider such a motion.

I'll try to review Vladimir's words.

I read House wanted to kill teachers and gave up on the thread.

However, it's strange that killing teachers is better received than owning children.

What a world we live in.

[Zagadka]

Really? How do you draw that conclusion from the very concise statement "children are the property of the state"?

I draw it from context. If my perspective is wrong, then yes, I disagree with the statement.

[Dr House]

I read House wanted to kill teachers and gave up on the thread.

However, it's strange that killing teachers is better received than owning children.

I wasn't serious. Vlad was.

[Vladimir]

Thunderhawk You clearly did not understand what was meant by "nation" and “property” (although I admit I used ambiguous wording). How about rephrasing: “the education of the nation’s children is business of the nation”.
Now withdraw this ridiculous censure or we will have to censure you instead.

[MistyTiger]

Vlad didn't mean that the children are slaves of the nation. He did retract his statement in the thread, I believe.

[Thunderhawk]

full quote

Children are property of the nation, not a few individuals, and are to be educated in accordance to what the nations needs them to become. Allowing the tyranny of a few individuals over a child is not democratic.

Sounds like
1) he doesnt believe parents have a right to home school their children - fine.
because
2) children are not the property of the parents - children are no one's property.
3) but are actually the property of the nation - unacceptable.

[Vladimir]

The education of the each of the nation’s/society’s children is business/"property" of the nation/society to be carried out socially and not to be usurped by a few individuals. Better? Do you enjoy semantics?
Also, I find your pre-emptive severe reflex against me without even a PM to clarify things ridiculous and offensive, and I demand a public apology

[Holt]

How do you draw that conclusion from the very concise statement "children are the property of the state"?

Nation =/= state. Not that I necessarily agree with the statement, personally.

[Dr House]

Nation =/= state.

Correct.

My bad.

[Cheesecake_Marmalade]

Oh come off it, I think we all know what he means. He didn't word it right but it's obvious from the context he was just saying that parents don't have a right to home school children because it's very anti-social, and that education is compulsory but it's impossible to tell if education is being done right when home schooled.

[Andres]

Signed:
Thunderhawk, MP, THP.

I support both measures and my signature to them.

[Thunderhawk]

@ Vladimir

I was not playing semantics.


Dispite you and others saying it was a poor choice of words I am yet to see you actually clarify your statement, and/or deny that children are property or can become property.


If such "typos" occur in a bill they will be highlighted and pointed out, again, to make sure no one is trying to implement some kind of backdoor slavery

[Vladimir]

Thunderhawk I clarified it two times, do you want a third one ? Here:

The education of the nation’s children is business of the nation, and is not to be usurped by individuals.

[Thunderhawk]

The education of the nation’s children is business of the nation, and is not to be usurped by individuals.

That wording is acceptable to me.

I hearby suspend my Petition for your censure. The rest stands.

[Vera Politica]

Vladimir's statement was clarified. End of story. Any further bickering and I would move for a censure of Thunderhawk for disrupting proceedings and for defamation of character.

I am growing tired of pettit bourgeois nonsense.