[XogGyux]

@XogGyux

What exactly did Germany do wrong? Please be clear and concise. Thank you.

I am not playing your game. Thank you.

[Pants-of-dog]

@XogGyux

Since you are not even willing to clarify your argument, then I can not be expected to address it.

As far as I can tell, Germany is using the mixed model that you support.

Their only problem is that they did not transition fast enough to remove their dependence on foreign fossil fuels, which is why they purchase oil and gas from Russia and are currently facing energy problems.

[XogGyux]

@XogGyux

Since you are not even willing to clarify your argument, then I can not be expected to address it.

As far as I can tell, Germany is using the mixed model that you support.

Their only problem is that they did not transition fast enough to remove their dependence on foreign fossil fuels, which is why they purchase oil and gas from Russia and are currently facing energy problems.

I am not unwilling, I already said it, I'm simply not going to be repeating myself and going in circles with you. When you make strawman after strawman when you repeat the same debunked myth time after time and when you keep incessantly asking for information that has already been provided multiple times, you come across as insincere and uninterested in having a proper discussion and more interested in simply imposing your views.

[MadMonk]

@XogGyux

What exactly did Germany do wrong? Please be clear and concise. Thank you.

If I might interject; what did Germany do wrong? Several things.

1. Closing down nuclear power plants too early. They should have been left operational until all coal powered plants were shuttered. Germany has very little hydro, so it's left with only fossil or nuclear for a baseline power production, an absolute must in all modern societies, but especially Germany with its heavy industry.

2. Relying too much on Gazprom and Russia, even allowing Gazprom to own gas storage sites in Germany and decide how much to fill them (yay, free market!). Gazprom supplied over 50% of all gas to Germany when, instead, they should have diversified suppliers and means of transportation much sooner.

3. Significantly hampering development of offshore wind power in its early stages (2012-2015) in favour of prioritizing solar power, which was in vogue at the time. Solar power is a good energy source but far more expensive than wind power per unit produced, especially in places where months out of the year have very few hours of sunlight per day. It should be noted that solar panels today are more effective than they were 10 years ago.
Regulations and tariffs that made very little sense delayed construction and planning for many years since then. There was also a failure in not allowing long term feed-in tariff contracts which was designed to promote investments in renewable energy sources, unlike the UK and France.

Feed-in tariff

Mistakes have been made, everything is easy with the benefit of hindsight. We can all only try to learn from our mistakes.

[Pants-of-dog]

If I might interject; what did Germany do wrong? Several things.

1. Closing down nuclear power plants too early. They should have been left operational until all coal powered plants were shuttered. Germany has very little hydro, so it's left with only fossil or nuclear for a baseline power production, an absolute must in all modern societies, but especially Germany with its heavy industry.

When were they shut down amd why?

2. Relying too much on Gazprom and Russia, even allowing Gazprom to own gas storage sites in Germany and decide how much to fill them (yay, free market!). Gazprom supplied over 50% of all gas to Germany when, instead, they should have diversified suppliers and means of transportation much sooner.

Yes, this part I mentioned as what I see as what Germany did wrong.

3. Significantly hampering development of offshore wind power in its early stages (2012-2015) in favour of prioritizing solar power, which was in vogue at the time. Solar power is a good energy source but far more expensive than wind power per unit produced, especially in places where months out of the year have very few hours of sunlight per day. It should be noted that solar panels today are more effective than they were 10 years ago.
Regulations and tariffs that made very little sense delayed construction and planning for many years since then. There was also a failure in not allowing long term feed-in tariff contracts which was designed to promote investments in renewable energy sources, unlike the UK and France.

Feed-in tariff

Mistakes have been made, everything is easy with the benefit of hindsight. We can all only try to learn from our mistakes.

Yes, I also mentioned the lack of investment in renewables. Having said that, I think it is a false dichotomy to assume Germany could only invest in solar or wind. It could have done both, or neither.

And from what I understand, solar has been useful for them.

[MadMonk]

When were they shut down amd why?

Germany has a complicated history with nuclear power, from loving it in the 70s to hating it after Chernobyl 1986. This new policy was adopted by the social democrats (SPD) who formed a coalition government with the Green Party in 1998, where the latter threatened to withdraw from the coalition unless a planned phase-out process for nuclear power was enacted. The compromise came in 2000, that the existing nuclear power plants could go on operating as before, but a ceiling was put on how much one reactor could produce in its lifetime, roughly the equivalent of 32 years of power production.

The right-wing parties fought this in the beginning when they took power in 2009 but made a u-turn after the Fukushima disaster in 2011. At that point there were 17 active reactors in Germany providing a quarter of all energy production. The last 3 remaining were supposed to be closed by now but have been delayed by the energy crisis.

[XogGyux]

Germany has a complicated history with nuclear power, from loving it in the 70s to hating it after Chernobyl 1986. This new policy was adopted by the social democrats (SPD) who formed a coalition government with the Green Party in 1998, where the latter threatened to withdraw from the coalition unless a planned phase-out process for nuclear power was enacted. The compromise came in 2000, that the existing nuclear power plants could go on operating as before, but a ceiling was put on how much one reactor could produce in its lifetime, roughly the equivalent of 32 years of power production.

The right-wing parties fought this in the beginning when they took power in 2009 but made a u-turn after the Fukushima disaster in 2011. At that point there were 17 active reactors in Germany providing a quarter of all energy production. The last 3 remaining were supposed to be closed by now but have been delayed by the energy crisis.

Germany and energy crisis, 3 words that we shouldn't be reading in the same sentence about the 4th largest economy in the globe that is presumably a global renewable, green energy pioneer. This is what irrational fear can do to otherwise very smart and capable people. While they were phasing out nuclear (whose CO2 footprint is heavily front-loaded, once they are built, the CO2 produced as a result is minuscule and limited to maintenance operations since the actual energy production is carbon neutral) they were opening NEW coal plants, as recent as 2020... This is a blunder.

[Pants-of-dog]

@XogGyux
@MadMonk

Then it seems that Germany's decision to move away from nuclear had nothing to do with the adoption of solar energy.

[XogGyux]

@XogGyux
@MadMonk

Then it seems that Germany's decision to move away from nuclear had nothing to do with the adoption of solar energy.

That does not really matter. Whether they sat down in an office to actively decide that they were going to phase out one in favor of the other is not really that important. What we are seeing occurring, is what matters. The legislators, the lobbyist, the german people, they could have all had the best intentions in the world... but results is what ultimately matters. If you are buring fossil fuels like there is no tomorrow if you are opening coal plants while at the same time closing the nuclear plants... you are really not helping the climate goal of reducing CO2 emissions. That is just a matter of fact.

[Pants-of-dog]

@XogGyux

Since you are not clarifying what does matter about Germany, I am addressing the earlier (incorrect) argument thay Germany is in its current problem state because it chose to go with solar.

[XogGyux]

@XogGyux

Since you are not clarifying what does matter about Germany, I am addressing the earlier (incorrect) argument thay Germany is in its current problem state because it chose to go with solar.

Germany is in its current energy problem, in part, due to its energy policy, which includes among other things phasing out nuclear and doubling down on renewables.
Are you suggesting that Germany does not have a problem as compared to let's say France? Do you disagree that they are on poorer footing as their neighbor? Do you deny that this is at least in part related to Germany's own energy policies?

[Pants-of-dog]

@XogGyux

Sure.

Anyway, the previous argument war wrong and there seems to be no mew clear problem with Germany.