Today's Inflation Surge Should Discredit Modern Monetary Theory Forever - Page 11 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15256010
noemon wrote:Right?

Wrong.

I am arguing that your preferred policy of cutting taxes for the rich, cutting wages for the poor, and cutting public investment in services and infrastructure will make things worse.

You are taking a British pension & spending it in Malta

And why not? I paid my stamp.
#15256011
ingliz wrote:Wrong.
I am arguing that your preferred policy of cutting taxes for the rich, cutting wages for the poor, and cutting public investment in services and infrastructure will make things worse.
And why not? I paid my stamp.


Wrong but right, innit. :lol: No problem with you spending your British pension in Malta. But certainly lots of hypocrisy to argue that unless you get a pension rise, your British consumption will be reduced. It's quite like Rishi increasing taxes for everyone but himself.

That is neither my preferred policy nor have you shown that it will make things worse for the economy, even if it were.

You said that HS2(the largest pubic infrastructure program of the UK) is a waste, not me.

I have not argued for cutting anybody's wages either.

Lastly there is absolutely nothing that will make things worse for the economy than increasing taxes to stagnation levels which is where we are today in the UK.
#15256013
noemon wrote:HS2

Spending £100 billion knocking 20 minutes off the time spent traveling from London to Birmingham. You could put that money into local transport schemes - bus, tram, and train - and the investment would benefit local economies and a lot more people.
#15256018
noemon wrote:your British consumption will be reduced.

It will.

Since following Brexit, the cost of buying British slowly crept up and has now more than doubled. And a lot of small British traders I dealt with, mainly for gun stuff, have stopped selling to the EU.
#15256024
noemon wrote:First of all, your argument that high inflation makes winners and losers is false

First of all, I didn't specify high (or low) inflation.

but also your rationale to separate people into winners and losers during an inflationary spiral is also false.

1) Inflation can go up while energy prices may go down. That is enough to prove your argument wrong.

2) Since some of our existing energy providers are indeed profiteering from higher energy prices we smack them with windfall taxes to prevent them from profiteering.

3) What is your point, if some energy company manages to win from high inflation? And? What?


1) And what argument might that be?

2) Evidently not since they're recording record profits. Current windfall taxes are attentuating, not preventing, profiteering.

3) That it's not true to say "there is no winner from inflation".


There is no winner during an inflationary spiral. But as above, even if someone somewhere manages to win something during such a spiral, so what? We are talking about aggregates here, aggregate GDP, and aggregate inflation. Inflation does not make any aggregate better, they all go down. Everybody loses.

That'd be news to BP, ExxonMobil etc just now. Or to OPEC during the 1970s.


That is quite hilarious, not only you made the statement that "only the rich countries deliberately cause positive inflation"

It isn't even what I said.

but now you want me to prove the negative.

Prove what negative?

Show me a poor country that targets negative deflation,

Why? What does it even mean?

And beyond that, speak openly about what your underlying point here is.

I was originally trying to establish why the Truss fiasco (allegedly) discredits MMT. That trail went cold but led to discussion of inflation in general, which is commonly misunderstood as an aggregate loss of purchasing power. For a given quantity of available goods and services, it's nearly always a redistribution of purchasing power.

In the case of a supply shock (a reduction in the quantity of available goods and services), price rises are effect, not cause. Trying to cure it by further reducing the quantity of available goods and services probably will result in aggregate loss of purchasing power, whatever the effect on nominal prices.


As previously stated, inflation is a symptom of growth, deflation is a symptom of an economic depression.

High inflation is a symptom of a too-high money supply and/or of demand and supply going out of sync.

Moderate predictable inflation is also stimulative of growth, hence most rich coutries deliberately maintain it.
#15256032
"Since following Brexit"

Well, that didn't scan reading it back.

I will try again.

noemon wrote:your British consumption will be reduced.

It will since the cost of buying British goods and services, following Brexit, slowly crept up and has now more than doubled. It doesn't help that many of the small traders I dealt with, mainly for gun stuff, have stopped selling to the EU.
#15256079
ingliz wrote:Wrong.

I am arguing that your preferred policy of cutting taxes for the rich, cutting wages for the poor, and cutting public investment in services and infrastructure will make things worse.


And why not? I paid my stamp.


What is wrong with taking a British pension and spending it in Malta eh?

Are you Maltese Ingliz? Or English?

I have been interested in a series that talks about some ancient ruins that are Maltese and are speculated about.

Are you a Roman Catholic Irish person Ingliz who lived in England?
#15256091
Steve_American wrote:However, this is the mainstream conclusion. MMT sees it different.
1st, MMT asserts that there is no unsustainable level of debt (if it is 100% in the nation's fiat currency) that will ever be reached by a Gov. that doesn't do something totally stupid, like selling trillions in bonds to give every citizen $1M.
. . Japan's debt to GDP ratio is over 240% and it seems to be sustainable. In 1981 when Reagan was sworn in, everyone would have thought the current US natl' debt would be unsustainable, and now some do, but there is no evidence to suggest that it is.
. . . Can you say a few words about what is an unsustainable debt level and how that is calculated from your POV?

2] The EU's history after the GFC/2008 clearly shows that austerity in a recession doesn't work the way that MS Econ. then thought it would. This was also shown in the early 30's when Hoover used austerity to deal with the Great Depression. Then FDR showed us that deficit spending doesn't cause problems later, and does work to end a depression. MMTers would assert that FDR really needed 50% to 100% more deficit spending as shown what happened when WWII started and Gov. deficit spending shot through the roof.
.


Image
#15256400
ckaihatsu wrote:Naaaahhhhhhh....

OK, last go.

"your British consumption will be reduced."

It will be as, following Brexit, the cost of buying British goods and services slowly crept up and has now more than doubled. It doesn't help that many of the small traders I dealt with - mainly for gun stuff - have stopped selling to the EU.

And that's your lot.


:)
#15256401
ingliz wrote:
OK, last go.

"your British consumption will be reduced."

It will be as, following Brexit, the cost of buying British goods and services slowly crept up and has now more than doubled. It doesn't help that many of the small traders I dealt with - mainly for gun stuff - have stopped selling to the EU.

And that's your lot.


:)



Hey, ingliz, I think you're a 'champ' for pointing all of this out -- all the ruling class does is blame *wages* for inflation when actually lagging wages is the *effect* of rising inflation, not its cause.

Also agreed that there's no 'belt-tightening' 'solution' here, to any of this.

Maybe you can tell me a little more about 'my lot' in all of this.
#15256404
ckaihatsu wrote:Maybe you can tell me a little more about 'my lot' in all of this.

You are fucked.

The 4.5% drop in GDP due to Brexit was enough to cause a recession on its own, and you have all these other problems too.

My heartfelt condolences, but you are well and truly, irrecoverably fucked.


:lol:
#15256405
ingliz wrote:You are fucked.

The 4.5% drop in GDP due to Brexit was enough to cause a recession on its own, and you have all these other problems too.

My heartfelt condolences, but you are well and truly, irrecoverably fucked.


:lol:

And the truly hilarious part of all this is that Middle England did this to itself. :lol:
#15256407
ingliz wrote:
You are fucked.

The 4.5% drop in GDP due to Brexit was enough to cause a recession on its own, and you have all these other problems too.

My heartfelt condolences, but you are well and truly, irrecoverably fucked.


:lol:



Yeah, I *agree* with that assessment of the UK, and I've said as much. Brexit was a bad idea, and a *costly* idea.

I myself am not *in* the UK -- I'm in Chicago.
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