[Sithsaber]

We're a diverse range of people who share a history of colonial domination, a somewhat shared religion and the tendency to fuck like rabbits and mix to various degrees. But in Latin America there are large segments where one group is seperated from another and in general criollos still hold a line share of the power

[Social_Critic]

I'm really mixed. But thank god my dad was somehow haplogroup subclade R M 269. It gives me a Celt certificate I can use for discounts. I never felt like a colonial dominator until recent days. Now that Raul put Camarada Nicolas Maduro in charge of Venezuela, I'm sort of proud and hopefully my Cuban relatives can get a post in Caracas running a ministry.

[Sithsaber]

The idea of race in and of itself is kind of dumb but based on its definition in America and to my limited knowledge in Europe as well, calling latinos a race is stupid (as is "defending" the white race and than secluding Turkey.

[Smertios]

We're a diverse range of people who share a history of colonial domination

All of the Americas are, not only Latin America...

a somewhat shared religion

Shared with the entire hemisphere and also with Europe...

and the tendency to fuck like rabbits and mix to various degrees.

You just defined the entire human species there.

All ethnic groups that exist were formed through a process of miscegenation of settler populations in their specific countries...

But in Latin America there are large segments where one group is seperated from another and in general criollos still hold a line share of the power

Latin America is a semi-random group of countries, and that's about it. The only criteria to define whether a country belongs to Latin America is whether it was colonized by a Latin European power and/or speaks a Romanic language or not. But yeah, Mexico is not that different from Texas. Quebec isn't that different from New York. Honduras isn't that different from Belize. Haiti isn't that different from the Virgin Islands. Cuba isn't that different from the Bahamas. Martinique isn't that different from Barbados. French Guiana isn't that different from Trinidad and Tobago or Suriname etc.

So, it's just a linguistic classification, that gathers three subsets of countries that went through completely different processes of colonization. Brazil, the Hispanic countries and historical French colonies. In each colonial empire, society was different. Customs were different. The language was different etc. If you add the British and Dutch colonies to the list, you have the entire hemisphere. But yeah, the similarities between Brazil and Mexico are not that far from the similarities between Brazil and Suriname, between Brazil and the US or even between Brazil and Haiti. The same with every other country, compared to countries that were colonized by different powers.

An example of these differences is the basic fact that "criollo", in Brazil, means a Brazilian-born pure African, rather than a white person. And, unlike what happened in the Spanish colonies, there was never a racial caste system here. Free miscegenation was the norm, so it was almost always impossible to say whether a person would be classified as Mestizo, Castizo, Coyote, Mulatto etc. Everyone was simply mixed.

So yeah, 'Latin America' (and, by extension, 'Latin Americans'), as a term, means nothing. It's just a group of countries in the Americas that share some characteristics. But, in many ways, they also share these characteristics with non-Latin countries in the region.

The idea of race in and of itself is kind of dumb but based on its definition in America and to my limited knowledge in Europe as well, calling latinos a race is stupid (as is "defending" the white race and than secluding Turkey.

The idea of race, itself, is not dumb. The problem is the name, which isn't really accurate. In the past, people believed that human "races" were distinct subspecies, and it has been proven that this isn't the case. But the idea of 'race', as an anthropological group of huma beings, is relevant. Different continents were in relative isolation from each other. So different cultures appeared. And also different religions, languages, phenotypes etc. All of this is relevant when defining difference groups, or 'races'.

This is especially relevant in the Americas, where every country was built out of the interaction between different races. As cultures clashed, differing those groups was important.

The problem is that, when people start using genetics to try to prove that races exist as different human subspecies, things are not right. That's just a bunch of laymen trying to disprove scientific theories.

[Istanbuller]

as is "defending" the white race and than secluding Turkey

You can't join something that was created with the specific purpose of destroying you

"I could show fight on natural selection having done and doing more for the progress of civilization than you seem inclined to admit. Remember what risk the nations of Europe ran, not so many centuries ago of being overwhelmed by the Turks, and how ridiculous such an idea now is! The more civilized so-called Caucasian races have beaten the Turkish hollow in the struggle for existence. Looking to the world at no very distant date, what an endless number of the lower races will have been eliminated by the higher civilized races throughout the world. ". (C. Darwin's letter to W. Graham, The life and letters of Charles Darwin, Volume 1, p.316)
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Talk:Notab ... _misquotes

[Sithsaber]

Sithsaber thanks you for this useful post. THU

[Social_Critic]

I'm a member of one of those higher races. I just need to figure out which one I want to join. And the name latino sure sticks in my throat. I don't like to get lumped with a Mexican from Guanajuato. Other than sharing the Spanish language and support for the Palestinian cause, we share nothing. I'm not Christian, I don't eat refried beans, and I don't like low riders. And god do I hate their music. The closest I come to that shit is El Bombin de Barreto.

[Sithsaber]

To be fair, this perpetuates the stereotype that pre Mariel cuban exiles are a pack of outdated elitist ass holes.

[Social_Critic]

I don't have a problem being stereotyped. We Cubans are superior. This may not be politically correct but it's a fact. When I graduated from high school in the USA the highest SATs in the school were held by a Cuban guy. We came in with empty pockets and today many of us are rich. Ad we got a hell of a lot more polical clout than our numbers. Actually I think the experience hardened us and the younger generations are slackers.

Our superiority of course is due to selection. Those of us who left tended to be more educated, smarter and more adaptable. And boy did we work hard. This is something you guys lack. You sit in the Bronx, elect commies to lead you, and whine endlessly. It would do you a heap of good to focus on getting somewhere, and quit your endless bitching and making excuses. I thought that Tainari chick we saw here had brains, she sure was smart, but she was just another Puerto Rican broad who spent her time rehashing why Puerto Ricans were getting screwed, instead of focusing on how to go screw somebody else.

I like you personally, so don't t ake it hard. But it sure takes chutzpah to complain when I say I got nothing in common with Mexicans. I don't. I got more in common with English speaking rockers with graduate degrees.

[Eisleben]

Most hispanics (they don't know latin, but they know hispanish) are a genetic mixture of central American Indian and southern European. In their distinctiveness, they are a race.

[Sithsaber]

I don't have a problem being stereotyped. We Cubans are superior. This may not be politically correct but it's a fact. When I graduated from high school in the USA the highest SATs in the school were held by a Cuban guy. We came in with empty pockets and today many of us are rich. Ad we got a hell of a lot more polical clout than our numbers. Actually I think the experience hardened us and the younger generations are slackers.

Our superiority of course is due to selection. Those of us who left tended to be more educated, smarter and more adaptable. And boy did we work hard. This is something you guys lack. You sit in the Bronx, elect commies to lead you, and whine endlessly. It would do you a heap of good to focus on getting somewhere, and quit your endless bitching and making excuses. I thought that Tainari chick we saw here had brains, she sure was smart, but she was just another Puerto Rican broad who spent her time rehashing why Puerto Ricans were getting screwed, instead of focusing on how to go screw somebody else.

I like you personally, so don't t ake it hard. But it sure takes chutzpah to complain when I say I got nothing in common with Mexicans. I don't. I got more in common with English speaking rockers with graduate degrees.

Way to go delegitimizing yourself. I'm not going to go into the whole "Cubans are bastards who would sell their mothers for five dollars and uncle sam's dick"response because ts beneath me. Lets just say your community has more clout for a variety of reasons including having a community that was propped up due to the cold war.

[Smertios]

Most hispanics (they don't know latin, but they know hispanish) are a genetic mixture of central American Indian and southern European. In their distinctiveness, they are a race.

Spaniards are Hispanic too, and they are "pure" Southern Europeans. And so are Guatemalans, who are mostly "pure" Amerindians. And of course, 'most' is different from 'all'. So yeah, in a way, I agree with you that 'Mestizo' could be considered a race, but not all Hispanics (or Latin Americans) are Mestizos.

And of course, some Hispanic countries, like Cuba, Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic, are predominantly inhabited by descendants of Africans and Europeans, with the Amerindian component being minor.

[Sithsaber]

Africans are everywhere in Latin America where slavery was common. They in some ways make up more latin America's culture than the indigenous

[Social_Critic]

I need to understand what "delegitimize" means in this context. Maybe you fail to understand I arrived in the USA, learned to speak English like a native, hung around with smart kids because I was smart and we were together in the advanced courses in high school. I prefer the stones and steely Dan to "Latin" music, I don't really care to read Spanish novels because they say in 200 words what can be said in 10, and I really can't stand tex mex which I'm pretty sure real Mexicans think is pig food. So what's your problem? You can't go back to Puerto Rico and you can't become American? Tough luck.

[Sithsaber]

1. Removed

2. I speak fluent english and my cultural life is almost completely Americanized

3. I passed AP like a motha fucka

4. Removed


-Admin

[Social_Critic]

So you want to explain what's the problem? You are mad because I don't want to sing " he ain't heavy, he's my brother " holding hands with a Mexican Indian and a German-Brazilian? Those guys have no more in common with me than an Irish stevedore does. Sniff.

I'm a USA citizen now, and I just wanna be me. I don't want to be stereotyped, I don't want to be saved by Jesus, I just want to be free. I don't want the NSA taping my cnversations, I don't want homeland security sniffing my garbage, and I definitely don't want to see commies in power. And if you think insulting me gets you somewhere try this : I forgive you, my son. All is well.

[Sithsaber]

I just think you sound ridiculous is all. Also removed.

[Demosthenes]

You will find very shortly that Social_Critic has little forum cred. He has been everywhere and seen everything all the time, and professes... no matter how many times you simply tell him you don't believe him, to be the uber-muench.

I suggest blowing him off.

That said, I'd like to address a few things, just because he stuck his nose in the hockey thread that had nothing to do with him at all:

I'm really mixed. But thank god my dad was somehow haplogroup subclade R M 269. It gives me a Celt certificate I can use for discounts.

Being smarmy doesn't suit you. It just strains your already weakened credibility.

The idea of race in and of itself is kind of dumb

Like money, national borders, and porn fantasies they are all non-physical social constructs.

But the idea of 'race', as an anthropological group of huma beings, is relevant. Different continents were in relative isolation from each other. So different cultures appeared.

Nah, it's pretty worthless. We weren't separated all that long in terms of planetary time, and the various minor adaptions to local environments different humans went through are pretty minor in the scheme of things, and science has born that out conclusively.

I don't like to get lumped with a Mexican from Guanajuato.

That's funny, I don't mind it. Though no one will ever do that with me IRL.

Other than sharing the Spanish language and support for the Palestinian cause, we share nothing.

I share a working class background, support for any oppressed working class group, common heritage in relation to the bourgeois, and a distinct distaste for those who are fake and pretend to be something they aren't to score political points. LIke bourgeois who pretend they were innocent snowflakes when they had to pay the piper. Batitista... et al.

I'm not Christian, I don't eat refried beans, and I don't like low riders. And god do I hate their music. The closest I come to that shit is El Bombin de Barreto.

I'm not Christian either, but I'd be called one were I anywhere else in the world simply because of the culture I was born into. I'm not really anti-Christian either though. Anyway, I fucking absolutely love re-fried beans and I'd love to eat a plateful of them that you yourself were holding. I'm indifferent to cars and music. I'm a pretty big fan of San Francisco and New York thrash metal though. Mostly stuff from the late 80s through the early '00s.

To be fair, this perpetuates the stereotype that pre Mariel cuban exiles are a pack of outdated elitist ass holes.

They certainly are elitist. They always felt quite entitled to all the wealth they had amassed prior to Comrade Castro moving them along. Then consider all the massive propping up the US has done since, what with the breaks no one else gets to start businesses and other perks of being a loyal (to the US) Castro hater, and you can't help but notice how hypocritical they really are. I've heard stories of the perks certain Cubans in Miami have gotten. I wouldn't call that "earning your keep" for one red second.

Its good to finally have something to pin on this dude because he's always ducked and dodged everything before, thinking his anonymity did anything other than hurt his already rock bottom credibility. Now I see why. Oh, but we were to believe if anyone ever found out who he was... well, oh my! A shit storm of epic proportions would drown him in filth. Now it appears it was just bluffing as we always knew it was, and he was none other than just another Cuban exile.

We Cubans are superior.

In terms of entitlement, sure you are! Most of you are proud to show it too. But let me specific when I say this so the wrong person doesn't get the wrong idea. I mean the Cuban exile community in general. Particularly those to whom Sithsaber is referring. Real Cubans are the salt of the earth as far as I'm concerned.

This may not be politically correct but it's a fact.

I don't care about political correctness, it was just kind of an inappropriate thing to say to be honest. Kind of out of left field and obviously personal. Too bad. No one is impressed.

When I graduated from high school in the USA the highest SATs in the school were held by a Cuban guy. We came in with empty pockets and today many of us are rich. Ad we got a hell of a lot more polical clout than our numbers. Actually I think the experience hardened us and the younger generations are slackers. Those of us who left tended to be more educated, smarter and more adaptable.

Why is that I wonder? Probably because it was the old bourgeois order that was forced out in the first place! That doesn't make you special, it makes you lucky! Lucky you were born to the class that is able to take advantage of every one else to their own massive benefit. Which WOULD certainly render you better educated, likely more well fed which in turn correlates to higher intelligence, and in terms of adapting I'd saying getting your arse kicked out of your home country for rampant, wantan, down right offensive oppression of the working class would indeed, likely force one to adapt or die off. That's nothing special and nothing a million bourgeois haven't pulled off before. So... why are you a special snowflake again? I don't see it.

And boy did we work hard.

I have almost always found without fault that the best way to tell if someone is lazy is to listen to how hard they tell you they work. It's not fool proof. I know some farmers around here and other factory workers who will tell you bust ass work stories, but those are different. You can see the working class lines in their faces before they even talk. Its no surprise that they toil such that someone like yourself would never understand it.

So...Meh. I doubt it.

This is something you guys lack.

Because working your ass off to enrich the likes of the bourgeois really makes one a lazy son of a bitch. I've actually found one of the biggest truism life offers: Bust ass work for yourself is never that hard! Easy work performed for someone else is the hardest, least rewarding thing you can do. Pay means nothing in respect to this either. Well, excepting some astronomical amount of pay you would never give. To make that clear: work ethic is a function of personal satisfaction. If there is nothing inherently rewarding about a task, it is and always will be toil. Certainly toil can be overcome, but why? When profit is grossly stacked the person who makes it happen in the first place?

elect commies to lead you

And you said they weren't smart!

and whine endlessly.

Your side does it's share of whining. You hardly get to corner the market on standing whiners down.

It would do you a heap of good to focus on getting somewhere, and quit your endless bitching and making excuses.

For who? For what?

I thought that Tainari chick we saw here had brains, she sure was smart, but she was just another Puerto Rican broad who spent her time rehashing why Puerto Ricans were getting screwed, instead of focusing on how to go screw somebody else.

Its good to finally see who you really are. I had many private conversations with Tainari over the course of her first visit to PoFo. It turns out the kindred can come from anywhere. I'm proud of her and what I now know about Sithsaber if they stand up to the likes of you. "...screw somebody else." Really? And what? You think with your exile-entitlement mentality that we shouldn't be proud that Castro did what he did?

I know I am. Good job Fidel. Live long buddy. Real long. If Comrade Castro was busily booting people off his island who think like that, I say more power to him, and I wish we could do the same. Let the selfish rot.

I like you personally, so don't take it hard.

But it sure takes chutzpah to complain when I say I got nothing in common with Mexicans.

No, what takes chutzpah is to brag about being better than you really are, to deny you got anywhere in life without taking it off other people, and then to brag some more about looking to fuck other people over. Classy right there. Real classy.

I got more in common with English speaking rockers with graduate degrees.

No. You don't. At all.

[Xbow]

You think with your exile-entitlement mentality that we shouldn't be proud that Castro did what he did?

I know I am. Good job Fidel. Live long buddy. Real long.

I agree Fidel, Che and Raul gave Batista and his diseased leeches exactly what they deserved. I have always seen M-26-7 as a necessary antibiotic to counter the case of national gonorrhea Batista, the Mafia, US Corporations and the Cuban Bourgeoisie gave Cuba.
Fuck Yeah!

Get it Demosthenes! How old do you suppose Social_Critic is? By arcane methods and the ancient art of reading I have his age down to about 70 based on his...'insightful commentary' and 'charming anecdotal tales' of his personal greatness. I wonder if he has ever read, 'The Secret Life of Walter Mitty? or Lies! Lies!! Lies!!!: The Psychology of Deceit by Charles V. Ford ?

I'm a pretty big fan of San Francisco and New York thrash metal though. Mostly stuff from the late 80s through the early '00s.

Same here (I was raised in the Bay Area) but I dig the guys from anywhere on the planet if they thrash (as you do) such as.
[youtube]6ODNxy3YOPU[/youtube]......[youtube]Rp6HF7mxTlo[/youtube]
....................................Brazil...................................................................................Phoenix
[youtube]Evc3Xtc84N0[/youtube]......[youtube]yvsQsao1F88[/youtube]
....................................Texas...................................................................................Raleigh, NC

OK C of C is a bit more metal than thrash but those fucks do (did) kick ass live.

Hey, didn't Social_Critic give Alex Skolnick some pointers on his technique that facilitated his transition to progressive Jazz?

[Demosthenes]

That Pantera CD is good, although I'm not wild about right wing thrash. Sepultura is a tad... "black metal" for my tastes, but still not bad. Sacred Reich are fucking kick ass. I know them well, having lived in Phoenix for a time in the late 80s. I admit to not rocking CC, but I respect 'em nonetheless.

Slayer, old Metallica, Exodus, Overkill, old Anthrax, very early Machine Head, Iron Maiden, with nods to Rob Zombie, Danzig, Motorhead, and Testament's early stuff too.

Then there are the lesser knowns...

Anyway, Off-topic...

Social_Critic... the everywhere man!