[anasawad]

I am only pointing out the fact that the time we were invaded was due to internal collapse.

our system is violent in its nature and yes every few centuries it is inevitable that it would collapse and be rebirthed once again.
I did not deny this.
But saying our entire history we only had 400 years as an empire ??
The system collapsed 150 years ago, and the last shah was removed just a few decades ago.

How ever trying to rub a defeat in our faces when in reality both sides lost alot and no one won the war is simply stupid.

The Greeco-Persian wars resulted in one side a good part of the Persian army to be destroyed into hostile land and on the other hand the burn down of half
of Greece. No one won in there and there is no glory telling me we lost because everyone lost.


And for the record. I never deny that our mistakes is why we lose sometimes, nor i ever deny the crimes we did across history.
And i do not take anything personal from this.

How ever trying to make us seem as if we were nothing and just crumbled and faded away long ago when our presence and achievements are present all over history is for me simply unacceptable.
Just like i think its unacceptable to do such to any other old nation with great history and achievement.

And i take it as a personal disrespect when someone tries to make our legacy look insignificant and our presence unnotable when we're still participating and achieving to this very day in this world not to mention the thousands of years of participation to the human civilization.

And just 400 years ? Thats the only thing that count. 1 dynasty ?

[Albert]

It is okay anaawad, I as well personally take great offense with Red Army when he tries to rub in his American patriotism into my face. By telling me that Russia lost the Cold War. We never lost it, we are still a super power greater then US will ever be.

USA actually lost, it lost so badly that people of America lost their minds because Russia is powerful. Hence you see why Trump is running for presidency now as a Republican nomenie.

[Red_Army]

When did I tell you Russia lost the Cold War? That's obviously false. The Soviet Union lost the Cold War

[yiostheoy]

When did I tell you Russia lost the Cold War? That's obviously false. The Soviet Union lost the Cold War

I once worked with a Magyar Hungarian woman who felt the West had abandoned Eastern Europe to the Russians all out of appeasement. And that resulted in 50 years of exploitation and suffering by the Eastern European nations.

General Patton wanted to immediately attack the Russians.

Just as General MacArthur wanted to immediately attack the Chinese.

War is not the answer however.

[Potemkin]

General Patton wanted to immediately attack the Russians.

Just as General MacArthur wanted to immediately attack the Chinese.

If they had had their way, none of us would be here today.

[Albert]

When did I tell you Russia lost the Cold War? That's obviously false. The Soviet Union lost the Cold War

Very clever but I believe you never heard the Soviet national anthem. Where one of the couplets go like this. "Upon eternity forged the mighty Rus''".

If they had had their way, none of us would be here today.

Actually at the end of WW2 Soviet Union did not possess nuclear deterrence. And exusted by war, America might have had cherry picked a victory like they did against Germany in Europe and WW2 in general. Although the war would have been long and brutal and USA would have had to do all the heavy lifting in it. Yet by geographical proximity SU could have defended successfully in the end. I dunno hard to tell the what ifs.

As for Hungarian crying about the occupation. I've heard this personally on few occasions from them. Well....should have not invaded Russia to begin with with Germans.

[Red_Army]

Very clever but I believe you never heard the Soviet national anthem. Where one of the couplets go like this. "Upon eternity forged the mighty Rus''".

And I believe you've never heard the song Panama, where the chorus goes like this, "Panama, Panama Panama, Panama."

I actually like the tune of the Soviet national anthem and know most of the Russian words by heart!

[Albert]

That is really cool that you know that, I do not even know all the words for it. I like the old anthem as well though. Do speak Russian RA?

[Red_Army]

Yes I do, although its gotten very rusty in the years since I lived there and studied the language intensively.

[anasawad]

He's Alaskan. Ofcourse he does.
There are Russians still living all over there.

[Red_Army]

...There are Russians who live in Alaska, but there aren't any who still live here. Russians are typically a closed culture, so they're kind of looked poorly upon here. Most of them have moved here in recent years and work in the construction (not entirely above board) and used vehicle sales (also not entirely above board).

This is badly off topic at this point, for which I apologize.

[Albert]

That is cool that you can speak too. I knew you studied obroad. I remember talking years back to you when you went and lived there. I never asked though. What made you want to learn Russian and go study there. I'm just curious.

[yiostheoy]

Very clever but I believe you never heard the Soviet national anthem. Where one of the couplets go like this. "Upon eternity forged the mighty Rus''"...

Actually at the end of WW2 Soviet Union did not possess nuclear deterrence. And exusted by war, America might have had cherry picked a victory like they did against Germany in Europe and WW2 in general. Although the war would have been long and brutal and USA would have had to do all the heavy lifting in it. Yet by geographical proximity SU could have defended successfully in the end. I dunno hard to tell the what ifs.

As for Hungarian crying about the occupation. I've heard this personally on few occasions from them. Well....should have not invaded Russia to begin with with Germans.

At the end of WW2 in Europe the USA still had to deal with Japan whereas England and France did not.

It would have been foolish for Patton to try to overrun Russia -- he did not have a sufficient military capability and the USA was already war weary and still with Japan to deal with and having only 2 or 3 nuclear bombs which Truman planned to use on Tokyo not Moscow.

Plus it would have been unthinkable for the USA to attack Russia -- they had been allies through 2 wars by then. You don't just nuke a country with your only 2 nukes for no reason.

Patton had lost his wits wanting to attack Russia. Ike sequestered him in the rear with the gear.

[Decky]

At the end of WW2 in Europe the USA still had to deal with Japan whereas England and France did not.

Britain obviously famous for not participating in the pacific war.

[Hong Wu]

Cool story bro, thanks for sharing it. But I must quibble with you on one point. Sargon was the true king because ancient peoples believed that everything happened for a reason, according to the will of God / heaven. So if Sargon became King then the Gods must have wanted for him to become king.

HAIL SARGON!

[Potemkin]

Cool story bro, thanks for sharing it. But I must quibble with you on one point. Sargon was the true king because ancient peoples believed that everything happened for a reason, according to the will of God / heaven. So if Sargon became King then the Gods must have wanted for him to become king.

HAIL SARGON!

If a new king who has risen from obscure and humble origins, has usurped the throne of the old king and has gone on to conquer the known world, chooses to give himself the title 'The True King', then that rather suggests that people tended to think the opposite about him.

But yeah, you make a good point - if Sargon conquered the known world, then this must have been because the gods, for whatever inscrutable reason, had wanted it to happen. It could not have been merely an accident, or due simply to Sargon's skill as a warlord. Nothing happened on Earth without the say-so of the gods. As I said, it is this which led the peoples of the time to try to find the reason why the gods had favoured Sargon. What made this low-born usurper so special, more special than even the many kings he conquered? Where else could they find the answer to this riddle than in Sargon's personal history, his biography? And thus the "man of destiny" was invented....

[yiostheoy]

:roll:

Britain obviously famous for not participating in the pacific war.

Britain had sent a few battleships into the Pacific but the Japanese quickly wiped them off the face of the water with air power. After that the British simply concentrated on Adolf with their own air power and had to turn their back on Singapore -- Adolf was threatening their own survival at home. Times were changing and the big dreadnaughts were useless anyway.

It was really lucky for everybody that Nimitz was able to destroy the Japanese carrier fleet at Midway. That's one of those rare sea battles where an inferior force defeated a superior one. That rarely happens in history. You can call it a miracle. Sure seems like one.

[Hong Wu]

If a new king who has risen from obscure and humble origins, has usurped the throne of the old king and has gone on to conquer the known world, chooses to give himself the title 'The True King', then that rather suggests that people tended to think the opposite about him.

But yeah, you make a good point - if Sargon conquered the known world, then this must have been because the gods, for whatever inscrutable reason, had wanted it to happen. It could not have been merely an accident, or due simply to Sargon's skill as a warlord. Nothing happened on Earth without the say-so of the gods. As I said, it is this which led the peoples of the time to try to find the reason why the gods had favoured Sargon. What made this low-born usurper so special, more special than even the many kings he conquered? Where else could they find the answer to this riddle than in Sargon's personal history, his biography? And thus the "man of destiny" was invented....

Well, if they really hated him badly enough, maybe they would have destroyed his biography!

Sargonnnnnnnnn

[yiostheoy]

Cool story bro, thanks for sharing it. But I must quibble with you on one point. Sargon was the true king because ancient peoples believed that everything happened for a reason, according to the will of God / heaven. So if Sargon became King then the Gods must have wanted for him to become king.

HAIL SARGON!

.......................................................................................

If a new king who has risen from obscure and humble origins, has usurped the throne of the old king and has gone on to conquer the known world, chooses to give himself the title 'The True King', then that rather suggests that people tended to think the opposite about him.

But yeah, you make a good point - if Sargon conquered the known world, then this must have been because the gods, for whatever inscrutable reason, had wanted it to happen. It could not have been merely an accident, or due simply to Sargon's skill as a warlord. Nothing happened on Earth without the say-so of the gods. As I said, it is this which led the peoples of the time to try to find the reason why the gods had favoured Sargon. What made this low-born usurper so special, more special than even the many kings he conquered? Where else could they find the answer to this riddle than in Sargon's personal history, his biography? And thus the "man of destiny" was invented....

........................................................................................

I think P has got you there HW !

I tend to agree with P. The Gods probably had nothing to do with it in Sargon's case -- he was a self made general and king.

There have been battles that changed history under unusual circumstances and which look like miracles.

Normandy was a good example -- the weather helped Ike -- plus Adolf had a headache and did not want to be bothered.

Midway was a similar example.

Washington against Cornwallis.

Wellington against Napoleon.

Queen Elizabeth 1st against Phillip 2nd of Spain and the defeat of the Great Armada.

Constantine at the Tiber River against Maxentius particularly after Constantine's dream changed history too.

In every one of the above the winners were outgunned and outnumbered.

However Sargon was the bully on the block and nobody outnumbered him ever, until his last battle as an old man, when he did defeat a superior force of rebels. That may have been a miracle however at that point I think it was probably Sargon's superior generalship that cemented the victory together with his better trained troops.

Sargon does not strike me as a holy man therefore I cannot imagine any Gods coming to his rescue. He strikes me as a genius, like Napoleon, or Caesar Augustus, or Julius Caesar, or Hannibal, or Themistocles, or Cyrus.

[Hong Wu]

The Gods live in us.

Sargon